littlemissG said:

By "the island" I just mean the events that took place there and beyond. I'm not saying the island is the physical location of purgatory, just that what happened there and after were all events that occurred after all of their deaths.

littlemissG said:

I think the Oceana Six was an alternate storyline where they all wrote an extra verse to a Prince song...

unique said:

OK, that's a nice explanation. I can entertain that as a take on it all. Cheers unique.

KeithyT said:

the island was limbo, the place they made was basically "heaven" being incarnated in such a way as you imagine it. so slipping from fantasy/limbo into the heaven of the flashsideways, all basically figments of jacks imagination

unique said:

Interesting take...

I don't think I like it any better, though. I really think any "it's all in someone's imagination/dream" ending is a total cop out. And certainly there’s some of that here (the flash sideways for sure) but much more than that is just too, I don’t know, cheesy, I guess.

Although the island, black smoke, polar bears, electro-magnetic powers etc are all a little extraordinary , the series was science fiction so I do think it is feasible that the events on the island were "real". Jack, Jin, Sun, Libby, Shannon, Ben, Hurley, Rose, et al crashed/lived/died on the island. Others Richard, Kate, Sawyer, Miles etc escaped (e.g. on the plane at the very end) and lived and died back home.

OK I've been thinking about this all day and reading the thoughts on the Lostpedia forums and on here.
Many people over at Lostpedia are arguing that the whole thing was purgatory and they all died in the crash, saying that that was why Jack died in the same place he woke up. But they miss the shot of the tennis shoe hanging from the tree, which was white in the beginning shot of the series and obviously aged and grey at the end. But the people arguing this seem to miss a few details over the course of the series....

Warning: extremely long-winded nerdy fanboy post ahead.

At first when characters started dying it confused me because I knew there was a hidden meaning behind it.....especially with Shannon...then Eko and Michael. What I realised when Eko died was he was conflicted with his past and what he had done, betraying and causing the death of his brother....Shannon with the death of her father and what she had done with Boone....etc. So when Eko was killed immediately after saying he had no regrets with what he had done (or something to that effect), I took it that he was able to die because he had come to peace with his actions.

When Eloise first appeared with Desmond it confused the hell out of me, how she seemed to have knowledge of the different times he was travelling in. Now at the end when she didn't want Desmond to take Daniel away, obviously because of the guilt she felt because she was the one who killed him....the whole thing was about acceptance of one's past and one's actions.

So all these people die, right? One by one they die over the course of the series, many dying once they have reached some sort of peace or static ending in their lives (Jin and Sun also). Michael by trying to atone for killing Libby and Ana Lucia. etc etc They all die and enter a form of after-life or purgatory. The characters who survive continue on their journey on and off the island. See how as Juliet was dying she was ALREADY having the same conversation as in her reuinion with Sawyer? She said "it worked", thinking that what she was seeing was another reality, which is what the writers wanted us to believe up until the end. Now this afterlife is evident through the whispers that everyone hears, and evident throughout the show through Hurley and Miles speaking / seeing the dead.

So all the things on the island actually happened. There is a chain of guardians, starting well before Jacob (egyptian or maybe before). Our little episode with little boy jacob, smokey and mama with bad latin pronunciation was just a link in a chain. Jack took over, then Hurley and Ben became the new Jacob and Richard. In the future (unshown) they too will die and other people will take over the job. Jack died happily after seeing his friends leave the island. Frank, Sawyer, Miles, Richard and Kate all left the island and continued their lives. At some point in the future they died and entered this after-life thingy. All these people are existing in an afterlife where the island is underwater. Jack has a son (reflecting the father vs son thing in his life), Juliet is a successful doctor, Kate is still a fugitive but innocent. Sawyer and Miles (both criminals/charlatans) are good police officers. Ben and Locke are teachers.....they are all seeking some form of redemption.

One by one they realise that they are dead.....meet together at the same time (for our benifit) and eventually will move on to some weird form of Lostie heaven.

The whole smoke monster / egyptian / polar bears / dharma turns out to be subplot.....a stage for the characters to experience things on. It's all real and strange and sci-fi fascinating, but a subplot nonetheless. In the end it all boils down to acceptance of life, human relationships and death itself.

Either that, or I drink too much coffee and have had one too many sips of my Frangelico.

I agree, connorhawke. That's pretty much in line with how I feel about it all, and how I want to see it as well.

CarrieMpls said:

Yay!!!

Whatever gives Juliet a happy ending is OK in my book
[Edited 5/24/10 7:00am]

I've only seen like 2 eps of Lost in my life, so I've got nothing to contribute. But I always get a kick out of seeing hardcore fans of certain pop cultural events come together to unpack/interpret/discuss/debate. This is what good, challenging art is supposed to do, I think, and it's too rare.
[Edited 5/24/10 7:18am]

Interesting takes so far. Connorhawke, I like and primarily agree with your summary on things. Mine is slightly different in the sequence of events and their literal meaning, but close enough not to warrant getting into it further.

That being said, I have to say that I thought this last season was deperately lacking in the creativity department, (especially this final episode).

Too many fight scenes - running back and forth across the island, taking boats between islands. They could have made so much better use of that time by filling in the real plot/story line etc...

I also thought the whole "touch me and help me see the light" stuff was executed VERY amatuerishly. Hate to be a negative Nancy, but I love the show and thought we deserved a more fulfilling ending that didn't have to rely on all of the "action" scenes at the end.

Phishanga said:

The island is a real place, whoever us on charge makes the rules. If 'smokey' killed Jacob or the candidate then he was free to make the rules and leave. With hurley in charge he makes the rules...but immortality is no more


I dint get what all the confusion is...everything we've seen us real -Darhma, the others, the hatch etc etc...all part of Jacobs 'invites' that ended badly with the fighting exploitation of this special place etc...with jacks lot he got it right, he found the ones he needed to defeat 'evil'. Huey takes over and uses the islands power to create the flash sideways.
[Edited 5/24/10 7:29am]

Fenwick said:

I agree, but I guess it was a case of the writers trying to satisfy both the viewers who loved the action and the viewers who loved the allegory.

I think with the "touched and light flashes" it was the way of the writers to try and bring things together and not be too heavy-handed. It was a little heavy-handed though but if I was writing it I'd struggle to come up with a way to visualise "sudden surge of suppressed memory"

I'm happy with it because it gives all the deaths a meaning. There was a point where I was rolling my eyes and thinking "oh no here's another pointless death" but now I'm satisfied....or at least have conned myself into believing so after watching for six years

Go team Juliet

KeithyT said:

it was a science fiction show, but the writers were clear early on that it would have a real world explanation, they also said that the popular rumour about it all being a figment of hurleys imagination or it being a dream is not it. being a figment of jacks imagination whilst he is dying isn't far off a dream, but it explains the island

they basically all died on the island, jack died early on from the crash, the other losties may have died at different times in the real world island, such as minutes, hours, days, months, a few years later (within the timeframe of the show, not timetravelling)

regarding the shoe that was new at the start and old at the end, it's signifying the time that has passed in jacks mind during his dream/hallucination. jack basically dies where you seem him get up at the start. his eye opening is the start of his death, what you see on the island is his hallucinations in limbo (not purgatory) where he has to resolve his issues before he can move on. it takes time for this to happen (remember you can be stuck in limbo for eternity), and he finally settles his issues and his spirit returns to his body where it was a the start of the show where the shoe is

think about the cartoons where someone dies or is knocked out and the spirit floats out the body and moves around, and then finally goes back into the body. that's what happened to jack, except you see things from the perspective of the spirit, but in the form of a dream/hallucination. the flashbacks show the characters before the crash, that's real. the flash sideways is jack and the others perhaps, getting to grips with the afterworld

the touch and flashbacks is the characters realising themselves whilst in the afterworld. like the embracing the sunshine book where souls meet up back again in the afterlife. when they flash they accept the afterworld and can leave limbo

unique said:

But he was wearing different clothes also

I think that would be a huge copout by the creators if that was the real intention. Would love to hear them explain it all in an interview.

I doubt it though, so we can all have our respective opinions.

Thanks unique. I'm not sure if it's just your conviction coming across but I'm interested to know if the writers have confirmed your take on the show since the finale was aired, you seem so definite?

Don't get me wrong I love reading everyone's interpretation on things as it helps inform my viewing, but I guess only the writers really know what they were trying to get across.

KeithyT said:

Yeah I guess that's the beauty of it all. We all have different interpretations and each one of them could be the real one.

Do you think they'll do an interview?

connorhawke said:

Suuposedly the DVD that comes out over the summer will offer additional explanations on everything.

Jimmy Kimmel referred to it on his show last night and I've also heard it being part of the bonus content/commentaries.

Fenwick said:

Brilliant. I think it's out in August. Can't wait.

Now I gotta find a new show

connorhawke said:

I guess FlashForward is the closest thing at the moment.

KeithyT said:

It's been cancelled!

connorhawke said:

Oh Man! I hadn't heard that. We are watching it in the UK at the moment. So annoying, this happened with Haunted and Tru Calling which me and the missus enjoyed too.

connorhawke said:

he was wearing different clothes cuz the jack you see is the imagination of dead jack. thus jack is imagining he is getting up and doing all that stuff, and then lying down coincidentally/fate-ally in the same spot

i thought the creators were going to leave things as-is with no explanation, to let people just draw their own conclusions, and leave things specifically vague to keep people talking about it. a bit like the prisoner from the 60s. no-one still knows what the fuck that was about

KeithyT said:

these are just my thoughts after following the show closely and keeping up with the online discussions, and it ties in with what the creators are trying to convey, the biblical references, heaven/hell, good/bad, black/white etc

but i don't think the writers are going to make any further definitive statements regarding the show, just leave it to the fans to discuss, as that is better long term marketing

KeithyT said:

flashforward is on thursdays in the states and the same episode on mondays in the uk

i think it's this weeks episode (next week in uk) that's the finale. show is cancelled, but the ending allowed for cancelation or renewal so should tie up some ends

with 24 ending, and big brother finishing, it's fringe that's the new lost. madmen is having it's last season, dexter will be a good season this year. i don't think true blood will keep it up. sons of anarchy could be good, but those shows aren't quite the same as the big network shows

KeithyT said:

That´s my understanding, too. The purgatory was, IMO, being on the island and going through all that came with it, i.e. the challenges, the loss, the experience, the tasks etc.

connorhawke said:

Thanks for this, I really appreciate it.

CarrieMpls said:

That's clearly what happened.

I'm not seeing what's so ambiguous about it. The island was real. The flash-sideways was a construct of our characters where they could all remember and go to their ultimate end: live together, die alone, move on together.

they all woke up in bed with bob newhart

Fury said:

That was just Kate.