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PrintableGenesia said: DesireeNevermind said: Today's sizing is bullshit. Marilyn Monroe was 5'5 and 145 pounds with a size 37 bust and 36 inch hips when she filmed SLIH. Even today that is a size 12 off the rack at best but for her back then....size 14. Truthfully....sizing is all myth. People are not cookie cutter. You will have two women fit into a size 6 but it will look good on one and not the other. Women's clothes ought to be more like men's clothes and focus on measurements; bust size, hip size, waist size etc in stead of this overal size 6, 12, 16. What's worse is the whole small, medium, large bullshit. What woman is a small all over or a medium all over? SMH Again...no, it isn't. A woman with 36-inch hips would wear a size 2 or 4 in current sizing. A size 12 corresponds to 41-1/2" hips. (I just looked up the size charts for the company I work for - and our measurements are in line with those of other many other companies.) Women's clothing does focus on measurements. How do you think any company manages to make consistently-sized clothing if they don't use measurements? The issue is shape, not size. You can take two women with identical measurements and put them in the same size from the same company - and the clothes will fit each woman differently. Why? Because even though their measurements may be the same, those two women are shaped differently. People who think this is an easy problem to solve have no experience in patternmaking or clothing construction. They use measurements of models with specific proportions and not real women. Like I said....people are not cookie cutter. I have 36 inch hips and do not wear size 2 - never have. Size charts are misleading. You can cut the same size using different fabrics and one fabric, say jersey, will yeild a different fit than another fabric...say cotton. We agree about the issue of shape. That's why I said women are not the same sizes and this whole "dress" size and "suit" size even bra size is plain ole BS. Also why I said Monroe was bigger than people think she was. She had boobs, hips, thighs, belly even back fat as she got older and wasn't no part of her past the age of 27 a size 4 or 6. | |
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DesireeNevermind said: Genesia said: Again...no, it isn't. A woman with 36-inch hips would wear a size 2 or 4 in current sizing. A size 12 corresponds to 41-1/2" hips. (I just looked up the size charts for the company I work for - and our measurements are in line with those of other many other companies.) Women's clothing does focus on measurements. How do you think any company manages to make consistently-sized clothing if they don't use measurements? The issue is shape, not size. You can take two women with identical measurements and put them in the same size from the same company - and the clothes will fit each woman differently. Why? Because even though their measurements may be the same, those two women are shaped differently. People who think this is an easy problem to solve have no experience in patternmaking or clothing construction. They use measurements of models with specific proportions and not real women. Like I said....people are not cookie cutter. I have 36 inch hips and do not wear size 2 - never have. Size charts are misleading. You can cut the same size using different fabrics and one fabric, say jersey, will yeild a different fit than another fabric...say cotton. We agree about the issue of shape. That's why I said women are not the same sizes and this whole "dress" size and "suit" size even bra size is plain ole BS. Also why I said Monroe was bigger than people think she was. She had boobs, hips, thighs, belly even back fat as she got older and wasn't no part of her past the age of 27 a size 4 or 6. Again, not true. Do you have any experience with apparel design or manufacture? Have you ever heard of a "size run?" How about a "wear test?" Apparel companies do fit their clothing on "real women." Real women like - me. I've been involved in many, many size runs and wear tests for the company I work for. I am fully aware of the concept of "ease over body" and know that different fabrics impart different properties in terms of fit. But the fact remains that garment sizing is based on measurements. Oh - and it's hilarious that you say bra sizes are BS. A bra is the one women's garment that is sold strictly on the basis of measurements - which you advocated a couple posts ago and now say is ridiculous.  We don’t mourn artists because we knew them. We mourn them because they helped us know ourselves. | |
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Genesia said: DesireeNevermind said: They use measurements of models with specific proportions and not real women. Like I said....people are not cookie cutter. I have 36 inch hips and do not wear size 2 - never have. Size charts are misleading. You can cut the same size using different fabrics and one fabric, say jersey, will yeild a different fit than another fabric...say cotton. We agree about the issue of shape. That's why I said women are not the same sizes and this whole "dress" size and "suit" size even bra size is plain ole BS. Also why I said Monroe was bigger than people think she was. She had boobs, hips, thighs, belly even back fat as she got older and wasn't no part of her past the age of 27 a size 4 or 6. Again, not true. Do you have any experience with apparel design or manufacture? Have you ever heard of a "size run?" How about a "wear test?" Apparel companies do fit their clothing on "real women." Real women like - me. I've been involved in many, many size runs and wear tests for the company I work for. I am fully aware of the concept of "ease over body" and know that different fabrics impart different properties in terms of fit. But the fact remains that garment sizing is based on measurements. Oh - and it's hilarious that you say bra sizes are BS. A bra is the one women's garment that is sold strictly on the basis of measurements - which you advocated a couple posts ago and now say is ridiculous. Nope, what I've advocated (or rather insisted upon) is that todays' sizing is BS because it just plain is. If it were accurate and consistent then no one would have trouble finding the the right size. I say bra sizes are BS becasue a 36D from one manufacturer is not the same as a 36D from another. Breasts are the one body part that is very different among women. Not to get too off topic but some are round, some are pointy, some are firm sum are not, some sit high, some hang low and some are real and some are fake...and we're all supposed to fit in the same bra based on some size that doesn't even factor in all the above? Puhleese!!! Yes I've heard of wear tests and size runs, although I admit I've only heard the term size run with regard to shoe manufacturers but wutevs. I still say today's sizing is bullshit and will add in unrealistic. p.s. I'm charging you $750 for a dress that doesn't fit! [Edited 1/25/10 15:12pm] | |
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It seems unlikely that clothing companies wouldn't try to fit their clothes to the most women possible. That's just capitalism. The more women your clothes fit, the more clothes you sell.
It seems more likely to me that women are shaped very differently and it's impossible to fit them all perfectly without a custom fit. My Legacy
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NDRU said: It seems unlikely that clothing companies wouldn't try to fit their clothes to the most women possible. That's just capitalism. The more women your clothes fit, the more clothes you sell.
It seems more likely to me that women are shaped very differently and it's impossible to fit them all perfectly without a custom fit. yep. which is why we need more sizes or at least half sizes or even better, get rid of the 2s, 4s, 6s and 1x and whatever comes after that. maybe women just need more choices and variety. Hell, even the skinny girls have a hard time. Perhaps women should wear wear wrap style clothing.  honestly, anything with buttons or zippers is just giving women a hard time. I see to much of it. chicks on the street with pants too low or too tight, back bulge under shirts and blouses, bruising on the shoulders from where the bra strap would be. Just a hot mess. | |
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DesireeNevermind said: NDRU said: It seems unlikely that clothing companies wouldn't try to fit their clothes to the most women possible. That's just capitalism. The more women your clothes fit, the more clothes you sell.
It seems more likely to me that women are shaped very differently and it's impossible to fit them all perfectly without a custom fit. yep. which is why we need more sizes or at least half sizes or even better, get rid of the 2s, 4s, 6s and 1x and whatever comes after that. maybe women just need more choices and variety. Hell, even the skinny girls have a hard time. Perhaps women should wear wear wrap style clothing. honestly, anything with buttons or zippers is just giving women a hard time. I see to much of it. chicks on the street with pants too low or too tight, back bulge under shirts and blouses, bruising on the shoulders from where the bra strap would be. Just a hot mess.right, it's not just the sizes, it's the shapes. Men probably have the same issue to some degree, but their clothes are not meant to be as form fitting, so it's not as noticeable. But my jeans don't fit either. The only time they've fit well was when I tried on 20 pairs at Nordstrom and spent a lot of money. My Legacy
http://prince.org/msg/8/192731 | |
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People, just move to a nudist colony. | |
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You do realize that if we kept the sizes the same as it was with Marilyn the "average woman" now would be like a size 22. | |
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JustErin said: You do realize that if we kept the sizes the same as it was with Marilyn the "average woman" now would be like a size 22.
I had no idea about women's vanity sizing before this thread | |
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skinny models and drag queens like myself. You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
authentic power is service- Pope Francis | |
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I tried on a skirt in old navy
the sales staff told me by looking at me I would be a 6, RUBBISH!! I was a 10, and in that case, US sizes are same as Aussie sizes. so confusing  | |
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ZombieKitten said: I tried on a skirt in old navy
the sales staff told me by looking at me I would be a 6, RUBBISH!! I was a 10, and in that case, US sizes are same as Aussie sizes. so confusing sales staff differ between the US and Australia | |
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Cinnie said: ZombieKitten said: I tried on a skirt in old navy
the sales staff told me by looking at me I would be a 6, RUBBISH!! I was a 10, and in that case, US sizes are same as Aussie sizes. so confusing sales staff differ between the US and Australia in the US it's OK to LIEEEEE  | |
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JustErin said: You do realize that if we kept the sizes the same as it was with Marilyn the "average woman" now would be like a size 22.
that's part of why I believe they would like their clothes to fit you. They want you to feel good & buy their products. They are not deliberately saying "you have to look like Adriana Lima to wear our clothes," it's just not cost effective to have so many different sizes & shapes of the same item. So they sort of fit a lot of people, but don't truly fit anyone! If you want it to fit you have to get it tailored. My Legacy
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ZombieKitten said: Cinnie said: sales staff differ between the US and Australia in the US it's OK to meet u in the dressing room  | |
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Cinnie said: ZombieKitten said: in the US it's OK to meet u in the dressing room oooohhhh!!!! 
 | |
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ZombieKitten said: Cinnie said: meet u in the dressing room oooohhhh!!!!
be back real soon. You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
authentic power is service- Pope Francis | |
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johnart said: People, just move to a nudist colony.
 I'm for it!"A Watcher scoffs at gravity!" | |
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meow85 said: johnart said: People, just move to a nudist colony.
I'm for it!I can tell you it's not as hot as it sounds My Legacy
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NDRU said: meow85 said: I'm for it!I can tell you it's not as hot as it sounds Who cares about sexy? I'm just tired of buying pants. "A Watcher scoffs at gravity!" | |
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meow85 said: NDRU said: I can tell you it's not as hot as it sounds Who cares about sexy? I'm just tired of buying pants. My Legacy
http://prince.org/msg/8/192731 | |
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