ZombieKitten said:

my brother and i were really rough on clothes too. he was the adventurous physical sort, and i was in theatre, doing all that theatre physical stuff that is hell on clothes.

johnart said:

not in this thread i haven't.

a bunch of reasons.

as a kid in foster care and then with my very poor family, we kind of dressed in thrift store chic. it's a little embarrasing for me to say, but we couldn't have afforded the uniforms, we couldn't really even afford school supplies. so, there's the cost.

i also think that yes, there is such a thing as too much self-expression, but there's also such a thing as too little. developing a personality and learning to be yourself despite other people's opinions is an important lesson in childhood, especially for gay kids.

school exists to educate on all kinds of topics. socialization, diversity, and respect of diversity are VERY important lessons. school is not just a factory where we are turning out drones who aren't allowed to question authority.

those are a few. there are others if you'd realy like to hear them.

cborgman said:

While I think uniforms should be part of school, I don't think they should be expensive. I actually think they should come from the school and be affordable to all. And those who cannot afford them should qualify to have them free of charge without anyone having to know any different.

I don't look at wearing uniforms as trying to make children into drones at all. I see it as Kitten mentioned, leveling. Diversity is still there in so many other ways. Kids can find a million other ways to express individuality aside from dress in a school setting IMO. I rather have that than even one child feel like shit because their clothes are not "as good" as another's. I despise even the thought of that.

For me, personally, wearing uniforms only made me be more expressive when I left school. And I don't think I have to mention that it didn't get cramp my gayness one bit.

cborgman said:

While I think uniforms should be part of school, I don't think they should be expensive. I actually think they should come from the school and be affordable to all. And those who cannot afford them should qualify to have them free of charge without anyone having to know any different.

I don't look at wearing uniforms as trying to make children into drones at all. I see it as Kitten mentioned, leveling. Diversity is still there in so many other ways. Kids can find a million other ways to express individuality aside from dress in a school setting IMO. I rather have that than even one child feel like shit because their clothes are not "as good" as another's. I despise even the thought of that.

For me, personally, wearing uniforms only made me be more expressive. And I don't think I have to mention that it didn't get cramp my gayness one bit.
[Edited 1/12/10 22:09pm]

johnart said:

although I believe I used a double L

at my high school there seemed plenty of ways to customise those uniforms!

johnart said:

can i ask you a question? when did you come out?

i also think the forced gender roles come into play here too. boys in suits, girls in dresses.

i also hink that part of childhood is enjoying the freedom childhood affords. thy're going to spend the rest of their lives in suits (which i think is stupid too), why not let them have some years where they aren't forced into needlessly uncomfortable pointless signs of submission?

cborgman said:

I came out when I was almost 17.

There is nothing wrong, again, to me, with children wearing uniforms during school hours and comfortable, expressive-as-they-can-be outfits after school and on the weekends. My uniforms were no more uncomfortable than any other clothes.
I can see your point, but I also feel that it is very important for kids to learn basic ways of life. Some jobs just call for uniforms. Not for some deep oppressing reasons, but practical ones. When kids don't learn these basic things early on they often grow up feeling entitled. My cousins are this way. My aunt let them express themselves so much you could puke, now they can act downright assholish and feel the world should work according to what they want.

johnart said:

the labcoat approach wouldn't bother me.

i just don't see the harm in a little autonomy and individuality. it's what makes life interesting.

cborgman said:

Maybe they could have Wacky Hat day.

johnart said:

god, then it would really be as tedious and sad as real jobs.

TD3 said:

even with long hair and a penis, i worked a respectable job as an exec assistant to the presidents of a multi-million dollar IR firm. i was organizing and running investor presentations with the CEOs and CFOs of some of the biggest investment firms on wall street.

and i was mostly raised in foster care, meaning no real reliance on my parents other than on my mother from 15-18, when i was finally allowed to see her again.

long hair combined with a penis does not a loser make. those programs aren't filled with boys with long hair, they're filled with people with lousy parents.

chocolate1 said:

I went to a public school with zero dress code and we had all types from punks to preps...we all seemed to learn just fine.

In P.R. we had to wear uniforms in public school. I wish uniforms were required by all schools. There's plenty of time later in life for expression through fashion.

And there's weekends.
[Edited 1/12/10 21:19pm]

thejason said:

cornrows hurt. against my better judgement (aka sobriety) i got talked into cornrows. they freaking hurt.

cborgman said:

Do they really do that in the corporate world? I always thought it was some joke on tv shows.

I know Ron can wear jeans on Fridays. He's a Director of Education.

JustErin said:

I didn't say anything about learning.
Some things just aren't appropriate.
There is a difference between being punk or preppy (we have plenty of those in the population of 2000 students, along with skaters, emo...) and walking around with your ass or tits hanging out and calling it "self expression".

There are PLENTY of rules children need to follow in school. They're gonna learn to follow rules anyway. I understand dress codes when it comes to decency (children with boobs or asses hanging out) and hygeine, but anything else is for the birds. I was an honors student in accelerated everything through school and I'd have dropped out before submitting to a dress code as a teenager. (Actually, I would have just started college early, but my point is I wouldn't have put up with it.)

Frankly, the dress code at my work is one of the biggest things pushing me to start my own business. I really HATE it.

I have mixed emotions. I tend to side with cborgman in general, but on the other hand, the kid's four. This smacks me more as the parents wanting to use their four-year-old to live out their own concerns, and I detest when parents try to live vicariously through their children.

that's what you get for living in shitty ass texas. MOVE!

Marrk said:

Exactly. I'm all for kids being individuals but they really should not start him off this early in life breaking rules. When he grows up and goes off into the workforce, there are going to be tons of places he won't be able to wear his hair how he likes. it's life. He better get used to it.

SCNDLS said:

easily the school board, since they are tax funded. if this were a private school, id say the parents.

but since they are tax-funded and just making gender jabs, the school board.
i know mesquite, texas. not surpsingly, it's an extremely conservative religious town.

we were up against mequite in school competitions. the wierdest texas moment in my life was in mesquite. we travelled there for theatre one-act competition. as we were standing outside a pickup full of good ol' boys roared past us at about 40 mph in a school zone, with two of the guys in the back trying to rope a stop sign.

it's not a great town.
[Edited 1/12/10 18:41pm]

cborgman said:

How long ago was that?

chocolate1 said:

We're talking about some redneck town in Texas where it is probably still legal to burn witches at ths stake.