Ever think that his issue is too much self love?

Dauphin:


When you have self-love you don't try to erase your skin color. Furthermore many people of color experience blotchy skin, that's nothing new, especially in the winter. Many of us have uneven skin tones, where the face is darker than the rest of the body because of it's exposure to the sun more, and it is not covered up like the rest of our bodies on a daily basis. That doesn't mean we run out and try to erase our natural, born skin color entirely. I mean should all darker-skinned people run out and do what Sammy did, just because of blotchy skin and acne? Come on now.

I think you are taking some of these comments the wrong way. I think you feel some folks are saying they don't like light or white skin, newsflash, that is not what they are saying, and I think that is why you keep throwing in that nonsense about "reverse racism". Most are too familiar with the self-hatred that wxists within communities of color, because they are being told it is "better" to have "lighter" or "white" skin, because you'll get a job faster, accepted more by society, society will feel less threatened with lighter skin, and all that other BS. You have advertisers in India, Japan, China, the Caribbean, Africa, and other places in the world, feeding this BS to their people

You ask why not be happy for Sammy in his new complexion? The question is why can't people be happy for all various complexions that exist in the world, and accept and embrace their skin tones, and stop these advertisers/manufacturers of these methods, from feeding them all these lies, that their complexions have no value, and that they should change it? It's brainwashing like this, that is destroying people psychologically with these lies.

What's it going to be next? Telling people that having dark skin is a curse and that everyone should bleach their skin because it is the "it" thing? How do you think those with dark skin would feel, with all this false bs being fed to people? You're really not thinking about the psychological damage that kind of thinking has already done to many race/ethnic groups.

I don't want to see young black girls/boys from any race group of a darker hue, psychologically damaged by this kind of thinking. It's bad enough, this type of self-hatred already exists among many groups of a darker hue, but maybe that is something you never have to worry about. There is nothing wrong with having light or white skin, but the point is, society needs to stop acting like both light and white are "superior." It's bad enough we had assholes in the KKK promoting that lie (the latter) for years.
[Edited 11/13/09 11:59am]

2elijah said:

I'm juxtaposing the idea that a person darkening his skin color is self-hate, while a person who darkens their skin color is just giving themselves a glow.

Some people are saying that there is no racism in people darkening their skin. Ignoring the obviously common held belief that marketing is telling kids to starve themselves thin, darken/lighten their skin, wear revealing clothing, augment features with makeup, etc.

Some people are saying that Sosa lightening his skin is not the same as somebody who identifies with attire that is associated with the opposite gender. I think it is. Of course there are some root causes for this, and not every root cause is pretty. Should I go to RuPaul and call him a self-hater for going drag? Should I do the same thing to Buck Angel for performing F2M surgery? Should I do the same thing to all these college boys who shave all of their body to achieve that "just hitting puberty" look?

The entire thread started with somebody calling Sosa a self-hater. I understand that. But there's MUCH more to self-hate than can be summed up as "Racism Inherent in the System!" He's being shunned and make a mockery of just by doing what makes him feel good.

Nobody is engaging him in a dialog as to WHY he would feel like he needs to lighten his skin. Taking him to the next level of discussion as to the history of oppression in both advertising and culture.

He is a human, for crying out loud. Able to reason, and would possibly enjoy and invite that kind of interaction. But we'll never know because we laugh with Jay Leno and join in on chalking him up as a joke.
[Edited 11/13/09 12:39pm]

2elijah said:

I'm juxtaposing the idea that a person darkening his skin color is self-hate, while a person who darkens their skin color is just giving themselves a glow.

Some people are saying that there is no racism in people darkening their skin. Ignoring the obviously common held belief that marketing is telling kids to starve themselves thin, darken/lighten their skin, wear revealing clothing, augment features with makeup, etc.

Some people are saying that Sosa lightening his skin is not the same as somebody who identifies with attire that is associated with the opposite gender. I think it is. Of course there are some root causes for this, and not every root cause is pretty. Should I go to RuPaul and call him a self-hater for going drag? Should I do the same thing to Buck Angel for performing F2M surgery? Should I do the same thing to all these college boys who shave all of their body to achieve that "just hitting puberty" look?

The entire thread started with somebody calling Sosa a self-hater. I understand that. But there's MUCH more to self-hate than can be summed up as "Racism Inherent in the System!" He's being shunned and make a mockery of just by doing what makes him feel good.

Nobody is engaging him in a dialog as to WHY he would feel like he needs to lighten his skin. Taking him to the next level of discussion as to the history of oppression in both advertising and culture.

He is a human, for crying out loud. Able to reason, and would possibly enjoy and invite that kind of interaction. But we'll never know because we laugh with Jay Leno and join in on chalking him up as a joke.
[Edited 11/13/09 12:39pm]

Giving hope to white kids across the globe that one day they might have the chance to be black.

I really would like to see the interview some said Sammy had recently, to see an image of him other than the photos posted here.

2elijah said:

2Elijah, could you please re-post that article about skin bleaching in the DR and the history behind it? That was a good one.

Sammy Sosa's new skin reflects an ugly mentality
UPDATE: Sammy Sosa says skin cream the reason for lighter skin

Many have been shocked to see recent photos of retired major league baseball player Sammy Sosa. Not only is he wearing green contact lenses, but his skin tone is considerably lighter than usual, something which he claims is the result of a skin "rejuvenation" process, some reports say. The once dark-complexioned, undeniably African-looking Sosa now looks more like Ricky Ricardo from "I Love Lucy". As the late Nigerian activist and musician Fela Kuti would have said, it appears that Sosa is guilty of having a "colonial mentality."

Throughout the African diaspora, black people internalized the racism they experienced under slavery and colonial rule. Bad habits are hard to break, and there is still self-hatred among black people today. With years of conditioning, societies were made to believe that blackness was bad, and anything associated with blackness was inferior and undesirable.

This problem is also prevalent in Latin America. For example, Brazil has the largest black population outside of the African continent at 90 million, which amounts to roughly half of its people. Yet, despite their conspicuous presence in society, black Brazilians face discrimination, poverty, and lower education and health standards than whites. According to a "racial atlas" created by the United Nations Development Programme (UNDP) and the Federal University of Minas Gerais, 65 percent of the poor and 70 percent of the extremely poor in Brazil are of African descent.

In the Dominican Republic, Sosa's country of origin, people are overwhelmingly black: 90 percent have African ancestry. Yet only 11 percent identify themselves as black. And as UN experts found, there is "a profound and entrenched problem of racism and discrimination against such groups as Haitians, Dominicans of Haitian descent, and more generally against blacks within Dominican society."

A strong anti-Haitian sentiment is rooted in the country's history. Haiti is a former colonizer of the Dominican Republic, as was Spain. Yet, Dominicans only celebrate their independence from Haiti. Haitian cultural practices are viewed as inferior. The government has engaged in mass deportations of Haitians - and sometimes Dominicans mistaken for Haitians - while also attempting to deny citizenship to the Dominican-born children of so-called "illegal" Haitian immigrants.

But a large reason for this hatred of Haitians is a denial of Dominicans' own African origin. Simply put, sometimes it is difficult to stare at oneself in the mirror. For years, under the Hispanidad movement, the government of the Dominican Republic emphasized the nation's white, Spanish and Catholic heritage, and conveniently left out the black part.

The Dominican Republic is a nation whose hairdressers are known for their hair-straightening prowess and most Dominican women get their hair straightened. Although dark folks are the overwhelming majority, black skin, wide noses and 'pelo malo' (bad hair) do not fit the standard of beauty. So, hair relaxers and skin whiteners are in, and people will call themselves a number of things, such as Indian, burned Indian, Moreno and cinnamon - anything but negro (the Spanish word), or black. This is what years of submerging your culture will do.

Certainly, the U.S. is not immune from this color-coded mentality. African-Americans historically internalized racism by pitting light-skinned blacks against dark-skinned ones, and using paper bag tests for admission to exclusive clubs. Black newspapers and magazines in the 1920s through the 1960s often featured advertisements for skin bleaching creams. Typically, with promises of "lighter, brighter skin," these ads blatantly associated white skin with beauty and success, and depicted dark skin as ugly. Meanwhile, people of color in America still fight against the Madison Avenue standard of beauty, which usually takes the form of a malnourished white blond fashion model with slight facial features.

Sadly, some celebrities of color join in the color-coded madness by lightening up and going under the knife themselves. And people of all colors and ethnicities risk mutilating their faces and bodies to look like distorted cartoon characters.

Sammy Sosa and others must realize that try as you might, you cannot bleach out your history.

SCNDLS said:

While there might be some crossovers here and there on a few things...maybe, I have to agree with Ms. SCNDLS. Not the same thing.

WTH do transvestites have to do with self-hatred anyway??? Transvestism is a fetish.

Transsexuals?? A person being born in the wrong body, who has to undergo and pass an insane amount of psychological testing before they can change their gender? How does that compare to skin bleaching???

PDogz said:

Wow, interesting. He really "cleansed" himself of his natural skin color. I wonder if he is using it on the rest of his body.

2elijah said:

My guess would be that his is using it ALL over, lol. I don't think he would have stopped at the neck. His hands are lighter as well, don't believe he would have stopped at the wrists. Though while I'm not sure of the product he was using, I bet it probably came with a warning NOT to use it on genitals. He'd probably want to keep that part as "Black" as possible anyway, lol.

PDogz said:

Yes, I pretty much figured he used it on his body, but damn, can you imagine putting all that all over your body just to erase the black. I'm sorry, but I can't see this any other way than self-hatred. The Domincan Republic has a history of self-hatred, and it's not alone. I posted an article on it. My Godparents, are from the Dominican Republic and they never acted like they hated themselves. My Father's brothers (my Uncles) used to live there in the 50s, and I remember him teaching me the merengue. It is such a beautiful culture, I can't see why many can't accept and embrace their African roots as much as they embrace their Spanish roots. Very sad.

ok
lets look at this through biological terms
something that is irrelevant to bias opinions
i dont condone plastic surgery but obviously this is something sosa shouldnt have been able to do because unlike a oversized nose or being fat or a truly disproportionate feature anomaly black skin is MEANT to be there on black people
its like when adolf hitler said blonde hair and blue eyes were perfect
scientifically,biologically,truthfully
he was wrong wrong wrong
blonde hair and blue eyes are a genetic reccesive mutation that isnt even supposed to happen,same with ginger hair and despite this scientific fact
theres still a stupid argument going on about 'which hair color/eye colour is better'
black skin is there as means of UV protection and skin colour is not there to be a sexual thing so it shouldnt be portrayed as being 'beautiful' or 'ugly'
just what it is...a skin colour

now if the nazis on this forum want to babble on about it being ok to bleach skin,or the black panthers want to babble on about it being ok to over-tan skin to a deliberately over dark degree
instead of getting your facts straight and at least looking at this logically rather than just barking at each other with your baseless feelings
then i dont see the point of this subject at all
..other than to argue

Zinzi said:

It is a topic to be discussed, not shoved in the closet or play kumbaya. This is a situation that is affecting many people globally, from America, Brazil, Asia, Africa and the Caribbean and if people want to discuss it, then they have a right to. So there will be emotions involved because it is not a topic many like to discuss out in the open, but it is a reality. However, whether any of us agree with each other or not on the topic, I find many of the opinions interesting. Carry on.
[Edited 11/13/09 15:24pm]

It is such a beautiful culture, I can't see why many can't accept and embrace their African roots as much as they embrace their Spanish roots.

2elijah said:

Here in NYC, I have many friends from the Dominican Republic. A beautiful country, and in my personal opinion, the people that come from there are exceptionally attractive as a whole. But one thing I can tell you, many of them do not like being considered "Black", and some even discriminate against African Americans (...in general).

PDogz said:

2elijah said:

Here in NYC, I have many friends from the Dominican Republic. A beautiful country, and in my personal opinion, the people that come from there are exceptionally attractive as a whole. But one thing I can tell you, many of them do not like being considered "Black", and some even discriminate against African Americans (...in general).

I pretty much know about many of the Domindans not liking to be classified as Black, but like it or not, their ancestors were definitely Black, and many of them are my complexion and much darker, and they can't hide it.

2elijah said:

discussion and people attacking each other are two different things

2elijah said:

Yep - some of these cats are five shades darker than me, but they're ready to fight if you call them 'black'. Unreal. Colonization is a mfer.

2elijah said:

Girl, this is all about denial of his African roots. Anyone who purposely does this without some underlying medical condition is seriously trippin, and so is anyone else who thinks this is a purely aesthetic change on the same level as tanning or nose jobs. And I don't need to hear ANY explanation whatsoever from Sammy cuz there's no way to classify this as anything other than self hate.


[Edited 11/13/09 15:25pm]

uPtoWnNY said:

It's really sad. Makes you wonder what makes them feel that way, but then again, like you said...colonization.

PDogz said:

I live in NYC. Was born here. Parents/grandparents as far back as great-great grandparents were born in the Caribbean. My siblings and I part of the first generation in my family born outside the Caribbean. I live around a very large, population of Dominicans and they seem to have tight, family relationships. My Godparents were born in the DR, and my Uncles lived there for some time as well. I pretty much know about many of the Domindans not liking to be classified as Black, but like it or not, their ancestors were definitely Black, and many of them are my complexion and much darker, and they can't hide it.

2elijah said:

Yep - some of these cats are five shades darker than me, but they're ready to fight if you call them 'black'. Unreal. Colonization is a mfer.

Until you hear them speak (those that were born in the D.R.), they mostly look exactly as African Americans. Of those that were born here in America, they appear and sound exactly like African Americans. I tell my Dominican buddies "...you might as well get over yourself, because in the eyes of racist America, you're a [N-word] just like me, lol. You better go look a little deeper in that mirror, lol".