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Printabledeadmansbones said:[quote] johnart said: Thanks for the welcome! But I guess it all depends upon your perspective on whether or not it's a mistake.  I guess in the gay community it's a mistake(?), but being a "wife" isn't a badge of honor for all women. In fact, it's offensive to some--even within a marriage. I guess for lesbian married couples, it's a way to show they're married because being two women, they're inherently equal in the relationship. For heterosexual married couples, there is a different connotation for the word wife:
I had a rhetoric professor who purposely used the word partner to describe her husband. She did so because she felt that using husband/wife terminology came with connotations of inequality, in that "wife" connotes an inferior role in the relationship and that "husband" connotes the superior. She wanted to emphasize the fact that they were equals in the relationship, and she actually explained this all to us on the first day of lecture. Admittedly, I was confused at first as to whether she was describing a gay or straight relationship, but it all became clearer eventually.
http://www.ask.metafilter...-the-word- I understand where you're coming from now that you've clarified. Just know that there've been occasions in the media and even here on the Org where words like marriage, husband, or wife are put in quotations by the author because they either don't take same sex marriage seriously, or are actively opposed to it. I jumped the gun and assumed that's where you were going with that, but clearly it's not. No hard feelings.  "A Watcher scoffs at gravity!" | |
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meow85 said: deadmansbones said: I understand where you're coming from now that you've clarified. Just know that there've been occasions in the media and even here on the Org where words like marriage, husband, or wife are put in quotations by the author because they either don't take same sex marriage seriously, or are actively opposed to it. I jumped the gun and assumed that's where you were going with that, but clearly it's not. No hard feelings. when I read the title, to be honest I thought it was making light of the word, not the marriage. Wife does have quite the negative connotation, kind of like slave   | |
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ZombieKitten said: meow85 said: I understand where you're coming from now that you've clarified. Just know that there've been occasions in the media and even here on the Org where words like marriage, husband, or wife are put in quotations by the author because they either don't take same sex marriage seriously, or are actively opposed to it. I jumped the gun and assumed that's where you were going with that, but clearly it's not. No hard feelings. when I read the title, to be honest I thought it was making light of the word, not the marriage. Wife does have quite the negative connotation, kind of like slave As up as I am on gender theory, that never even crossed my mind. The only context I'm used to seeing "wife" instead of wife is coming from people who are against or are making fun of same sex couples. "A Watcher scoffs at gravity!" | |
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meow85 said: ZombieKitten said: when I read the title, to be honest I thought it was making light of the word, not the marriage. Wife does have quite the negative connotation, kind of like slave As up as I am on gender theory, that never even crossed my mind. The only context I'm used to seeing "wife" instead of wife is coming from people who are against or are making fun of same sex couples. isn't that weird! I guess because I AM a wife and HATE that word I would see it like that | |
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ZombieKitten said: meow85 said: As up as I am on gender theory, that never even crossed my mind. The only context I'm used to seeing "wife" instead of wife is coming from people who are against or are making fun of same sex couples. isn't that weird! I guess because I AM a wife and HATE that word I would see it like that
The only context in which I could be called a wife is what's going on between me and one of my roommates. We've sort of drifted into a very domestic, nonsexual partnership wherein we address each other as Wife and Wifey. I can't even remember the last name I called her by her name. "A Watcher scoffs at gravity!" | |
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Am i old school cuz i dont mind the term wife... ~~~~~ Oh that voice...incredible....there should be a musical instrument called George Michael... ~~~~~ | |
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deadmansbones said:[quote] johnart said: Well you've met one now! I don't like the term "wife." I never liked being someone's girlfriend or wifey or wife. I guess for some women, it's a term of endearment and/or status. God forbid not being taken, ya know? To me, the term life-partner is just so much more accurate describing the what the relationship is.
However, I'll give you marriage is defined by the terms husband and wife at this point--in roles reflecting patriarchal institution. Also, did you read the link I provided? Believe it or not, there are even some lesbian couples having a problem with the term wife. So I wasn't completely off-base. It's all a matter of perspective. I think it's sort of interesting how words are changing. I mean... I guess for some lesbian couples it's like being a wife is an elevation in social status from being a mere partner. I guess for some gay couples being a husband is an elevation in social status. But for some women involved in a heterosexual relationship, being a wife in the traditional sense ain't all that. In fact, for some feminists being a wife is actually negative. So some of us actual prefer partner to wife! We don't want our roles to be defined by our marriage necessarily to serve, honor, and obey. Partner implies more equality. I prefer partner. I don't obey anybody but myself! P.S. I also don't use Mrs. I hate being referred to Mrs so and so. I'm still Ms. My legal name is hyphenated. In other words I never dropped my maiden name! This is stating the obvious, but I just think that the gay culture is quite different from the heterosexual culture. I think heterosexual marriages have this different dynamic--the legal issue not withstanding. [Edited 10/24/09 6:57am] Here's two more quotes from the same link: I'm a bisexual woman, legally married to another woman, and I use partner instead of wife because wife carries with it the implication of husband. I prefer gender-neutral terms for everything that can be gender-neutral without being unnecessarily awkward. I love it when straight couples use the word partner because they are implicitly telling me that the gender of their spouse is not related to the subject at hand, which tells me that they're not gonna get all worked up about the gender of my spouse either.
In Canada, gay marriage has been legal for five years now, and I hear partner more lately, not less. I think it is a great trend and it makes me happy whenever I hear straight people use it - it makes me feel included, like they realize I am just like them and that the genders of our respective significant others - meaning, our sexualities - do not have to separate us.posted by arcticwoman at 9:47 PM on September 22, 2008 [8 favorites] [Edited 10/24/09 7:04am] I completely respect you finding the word wife offensive or inadequate. Like you said, it's all about perceptions. And times do change and with times words come into and fall out of fashion (IMO). Here's a bit of my perception: I just think that we can get totally carried away with dissecting words sometimes. They're words. Some worse than others, yes. But still words. When I introduce my partner of over 12 years I use that very word usually, "partner", but it is not to be inclusive of anyone in particular or to create any gender-neutral ground. I do it because not having the option to be married, it seems the most fitting. That doesn't stop me from calling him hubby here and there. If we get legally married, then he will be my husband. That won't mean that we will cease to be partners in this relationship. I think the argument could be made that if the word wife carries implications of a husband, that's the more reason for lesbians or bisexual women who choose to marry another woman to use it. To break through and challenge those long-standing implications. A lot of what's quoted has to do with wanting inclusion and making everything neutral...same....I don't want to blur or neutralize. There is nothing wrong with being and celebrating differences and we don't have to blur those differences to achieve equality as far as rights are concerned. I also don't expect or want straight folk to have to talk to me about their wives and husbands in gender neutral terms just so that I can feel included. Or worse yet, for fear that I might be offended. I also think that the term wife has no more to do with "being taken" than life-partner does. Both imply (to me) that you are indeed "taken", as in having found a person with whom to share your life and with whom your loyalty lies. Some women may feel the word wife is offensive or oppressive but I guarantee there's also plenty of men who say it with nothing but love and admiration behind it. [Edited 10/24/09 22:16pm] | |
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johnart said: Some women may feel the word wife is offensive or oppressive but I guarantee there's also plenty of men who say it with nothing but love and admiration behind it.
and some degree of ownership, traditionally anyway | |
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ZombieKitten said: johnart said: Some women may feel the word wife is offensive or oppressive but I guarantee there's also plenty of men who say it with nothing but love and admiration behind it.
and some degree of ownership, traditionally anyway I'm sure there's plenty of those. Don't think there's not plenty of folk who refer to each other as partners who don't feel ownership just the same. | |
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johnart said: ZombieKitten said: and some degree of ownership, traditionally anyway I'm sure there's plenty of those. Don't think there's not plenty of folk who refer to each other as partners who don't feel ownership just the same. Possibly, but at least the word implies a partnership. I was behind an Iranian guy at the check-in counter at the airport once, and he had only bought one ticket. I am not joking, he was furious because they wouldn't let him check his wives in as luggage.  | |
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ZombieKitten said: johnart said: I'm sure there's plenty of those. Don't think there's not plenty of folk who refer to each other as partners who don't feel ownership just the same. Possibly, but at least the word implies a partnership. I was behind an Iranian guy at the check-in counter at the airport once, and he had only bought one ticket. I am not joking, he was furious because they wouldn't let him check his wives in as luggage. I believe that. I just don't think it's because of a word. Or that a word is going to change it. | |
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johnart said: ZombieKitten said: Possibly, but at least the word implies a partnership. I was behind an Iranian guy at the check-in counter at the airport once, and he had only bought one ticket. I am not joking, he was furious because they wouldn't let him check his wives in as luggage. I believe that. I just don't think it's because of a word. Or that a word is going to change it. the choice of word might reflect the relationship? | |
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ZombieKitten said: johnart said: I believe that. I just don't think it's because of a word. Or that a word is going to change it. the choice of word might reflect the relationship? Sorry, I think it's an interesting concept, but ultimately I really really don't. Doesn't your brain just overload on the importance we put on words??? Mine does. The "N" word, Queer, Fag, Retarded...over and over. People can call you all the right things and do all the wrong ones anyway. Husky doesn't introduce you as his wife? | |
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johnart said: ZombieKitten said: the choice of word might reflect the relationship? Sorry, I think it's an interesting concept, but ultimately I really really don't. Doesn't your brain just overload on the importance we put on words??? Mine does. The "N" word, Queer, Fag, Retarded...over and over. People can call you all the right things and do all the wrong ones anyway. Husky doesn't introduce you as his wife? no, I don't mean that the word influences the relationship, I think that those who believe their relationship is more equal might choose the word partner over wife? anyway, he does, but then again he thinks he owns me | |
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ZombieKitten said: johnart said: Sorry, I think it's an interesting concept, but ultimately I really really don't. Doesn't your brain just overload on the importance we put on words??? Mine does. The "N" word, Queer, Fag, Retarded...over and over. People can call you all the right things and do all the wrong ones anyway. Husky doesn't introduce you as his wife? no, I don't mean that the word influences the relationship, I think that those who believe their relationship is more equal might choose the word partner over wife? anyway, he does, but then again he thinks he owns me Well, hubby says he owns me. See??? No different. 
I'm really not opposed to straight (or whatever) folk choosing the word partner (like I said, I myself use it), but I also think it's perfectly fine for a woman to be a wife and that any connotation of ownership (if there) can be stripped from the word if the woman partners with a man who views them as equal regardless of terminology. | |
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I love the org an' all...and I'm guilty of this myself, but we can overthink the simplest of shit around here... | |
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roodboi said: I love the org an' all...and I'm guilty of this myself, but we can overthink the simplest of shit around here...
 | |
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meow85 said: deadmansbones said: I understand where you're coming from now that you've clarified. Just know that there've been occasions in the media and even here on the Org where words like marriage, husband, or wife are put in quotations by the author because they either don't take same sex marriage seriously, or are actively opposed to it. I jumped the gun and assumed that's where you were going with that, but clearly it's not. No hard feelings. I understand. Not a problem. I've got troubles. My sister is dating a racist homophobe--and I'm not even joking. This is a friggin nightmare... It's like the civil war all over again because I'm the instigator-- the BAD one if I confront the guy, you know what I'm saying? I'm the one who s the troublemaker nevermind this guy's comments are completely rude, inflammatory..just altogether inappropriate. So I got troubles. | |
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