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Printableporfyrivrohi said: paintedlady said: Many kids that aren't disciplined properly have a difficult time NOT offending adults, because they always talk back and don't know when to just shut their mouths. They actually have a harder time recognizing what respect is because they are so used to parents that bargain and compromise with them. These kids are just as bad as kids that are never showed any affection (or are just plain neglected) and are taught to "be tough". This is SO wrong! Children have a right to talk back just like EVERYONE ELSE. They're not less human than adults! If you can't handle that it's YOUR problem, not theirs! A child has a hard time recognizing what respect is ONLY when it isn't treated respectfully! Children learn by IMITATION, how hard is this to understand in the 21st century? Respect enforced by fear isn't real respect at all! It's just hypocritical behaviour you teach your children to adopt. And you can be sure that they will never respect you truthfully, they will just pretend to. Implying as you do that punishment is the product of affection is intentionally misleading and straight out WRONG! It's just your way to justify what you do and suppress the guilt because deep down you know it it's so obviously WRONG - not to mention INEFFECTIVE as well - throughout the years the children I've met with the worst behaviour possible have proved to be the ones who are "disciplined" frequently at home and whose parents brag about it! I am willing to bet most misbehaved children you dealt with are neglected or emotionally abused. Oh, and through the years I have seen many parents who DON'T spank have kids that have MAJOR behavioral issues as well, so spanking can't be blamed for the ills of society dear. | |
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My daughter threw an extreme and very public tantrum ONCE. I calmly told her to get up (which she did not do) before I brought her somewhere private, tapped that booty and never again did she dare as I guaranteed her the same would occur each time. That was the ONLY time she ever dared to throw a tantrum.
I'm sure that there are some foolish people telling me I should have sat next to her on the grocery store floor and reasoned with her? Or maybe I should have left all of my thanksgiving ingrediants behind and allowed the store to close as I calmly dragged my sceaming child out to the car and took her home? Perhaps they might suggest I should have just given her what she wanted since that would have made her happy? People who feel this way are paving a tough path for themselves and their children down the line. Spanking certainly has its place. My vote is "TAP THAT ASS!!!!" and when they grow older, it wont be necessary. After the age of 5, my kids got very few spankings because they understood that they needed to think because in life, actions have consequences. I must say, every kid I have ever met that was not properly physically disciplined has been a brat who believes that his/her wants and desires are central to the existance of the solar system--disrespectful with their mouths and/or lacked a respect for the personal boundaries of others. This tends to mess them up socially as the rest of us wont tolerate that shit. Going to church doesn’t make you a Christian, any more than standing in a garage makes you a car. | |
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Violence begets violence. | |
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Kids don't come with instruction booklets some respond where it some point a whoopin is in order or sometimes all you have to do is talk. I've worked with a classroom of 30 kids from ages 5 to 13 some with special needs (I had two with Adhd and two who were mildly autistic) for almost a year and I have 3 of my own. One thing is for sure no one will ever understand until you have your own or you've worked with kids. Maybe sick of hearing it but its true. I talk to my kids and take things away (my son's grades dropped so I took his ps3 out his room until his teachers tell me his grades are up). But I'm a single parent raising boys. If they disrespect me I will crush them. Yes I will step in that ass because I work too hard. And they understand. My oldest is 14. He doesn't run the streets, get high, or get into any fights. He gets up every morning at 5am and rides the train from one city to another to get to the school he chose to attend. My two younger ones get up and get themselves ready. There homework is done before they get home. Yes they are spoiled and can be lazy at times, kids will be kids but they know whats up. I don't wanna hear any protests unless you've laid on the table and you can feel your insides splittin open   | |
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elmer said: Violence begets violence.
undisciplined kids tend to be violent.....they have no boundaries. healthy, normal children NEED boundaries [Edited 10/11/09 12:46pm] Going to church doesn’t make you a Christian, any more than standing in a garage makes you a car. | |
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StillGotIt said: elmer said: Violence begets violence.
undisciplined kids tend to be violent.....they have no boundaries Say that! The bullies in my son's school that were expelled last year were the twins of a couple that don't spank their boys but their boys smacked a rock on a younger kids face with a rock from the school's garden. The parents where at the principal's office saying that they don't even spank their kids so the younger child must have been at fault and not their delinquent twin bullies.  | |
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heybaby said: I don't wanna hear any protests unless you've laid on the table and you can feel your insides splittin open
"I brought you in this world and I can take you out"
mine was being a snot ass yesterday to his grandma and finally I was like if you need it you will get it, all of a sudden it was "yes ma'am" central. | |
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DesireeNevermind said: Ok last thread I'm startign today.
  But uh...
Of course this mom didn't really beat her kid IMO, maybe the slap was a little heavy cuz that kid went from white to native american but...I've seen other parents (usually moms) and ethnic moms at that, who go all bladerunner on their kids. I've only intervened twice in my life. Where does one draw the line between a spank, some scolding or mild discipline and abusing your child? Do you ever see parents losing control and step up and say something? So many kids end up in foster care b/c they come from abusive homes. Why are some parents so quick to hit anyway? I've seen PLENTY of white mom's going bladerunner...and they say shit to their kids to tear them down....swearing, calling their kids fat, dumb etc. If you've mostly seen ethnic moms, perhaps you need to get out more. Usually when there is a bad grocery scene, in my experience, its a white mother. Most of the news stories I've seen have been white mothers as well. [Edited 10/11/09 12:52pm] Going to church doesn’t make you a Christian, any more than standing in a garage makes you a car. | |
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DesireeNevermind said: Ok last thread I'm startign today.
But uh...
I just remembered something I saw last night. I'm at the whole foods and this chick in the parking lot is just yelling at her crying child and then WHAP!!! She lays one across the kid's face and said kid turns beet red. Now the child is really crying loud and the mom is all looking around like she's either embarassed or feeling guilty. Being a multi-track minded person I start thinking of MJ and his dad/manager abusing him, I think of that vid someone posted a while back where some mom is dragging her leashed child out of a store and I think of how my parents never laid a hand on me. Then I think of pulp fiction but not sure why. Of course this mom didn't really beat her kid IMO, maybe the slap was a little heavy cuz that kid went from white to native american but...I've seen other parents (usually moms) and ethnic moms at that, who go all bladerunner on their kids. I've only intervened twice in my life. Where does one draw the line between a spank, some scolding or mild discipline and abusing your child? Do you ever see parents losing control and step up and say something? So many kids end up in foster care b/c they come from abusive homes. Why are some parents so quick to hit anyway? OK, you my gurl and all, but you have to pump the brakes at sounding like you like wearing pillow cases on your head and are buddies with David Duke. Race has nothing to do with this equation, many white moms not only beat the shit outta their kids but are the worst when it comes to verbally abusing their kids. Violent people will just be violent, ethnicity has nothing to do with this one. | |
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paintedlady said: DesireeNevermind said: Ok last thread I'm startign today.
But uh...
I just remembered something I saw last night. I'm at the whole foods and this chick in the parking lot is just yelling at her crying child and then WHAP!!! She lays one across the kid's face and said kid turns beet red. Now the child is really crying loud and the mom is all looking around like she's either embarassed or feeling guilty. Being a multi-track minded person I start thinking of MJ and his dad/manager abusing him, I think of that vid someone posted a while back where some mom is dragging her leashed child out of a store and I think of how my parents never laid a hand on me. Then I think of pulp fiction but not sure why. Of course this mom didn't really beat her kid IMO, maybe the slap was a little heavy cuz that kid went from white to native american but...I've seen other parents (usually moms) and ethnic moms at that, who go all bladerunner on their kids. I've only intervened twice in my life. Where does one draw the line between a spank, some scolding or mild discipline and abusing your child? Do you ever see parents losing control and step up and say something? So many kids end up in foster care b/c they come from abusive homes. Why are some parents so quick to hit anyway? OK, you my gurl and all, but you have to pump the brakes at sounding like you like wearing pillow cases on your head and are buddies with David Duke. Race has nothing to do with this equation, many white moms not only beat the shit outta their kids but are the worst when it comes to verbally abusing their kids. Violent people will just be violent, ethnicity has nothing to do with this one. agreed. | |
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For every example of an unsmacked kid gone wild, I'll bet I can list as many examples of kids who get those asses torn up on a regular basis and who are just as rotten. It actually seems to be more the rule around here than the exception. I know plenty of kids who get regular smackdowns and they're still punks. I also know kids who aren't hit and behave well.
I used to be a card carrying member of the League Of Heavy Handed Disciplinarians, but I reformed. I can certainly relate to the overwhelming and hard to resist urge to knock some sense into them, but I never felt good about spanking afterward, so I ditched that parenting tool. It turns out that I was a much more effective parent as a non-hitter. I may or may not still be a card carrying member of the Association Of Nonsensical Yellers. Murica: at least it's not Sudan. | |
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Horsefeathers said: For every example of an unsmacked kid gone wild, I'll bet I can list as many examples of kids who get those asses torn up on a regular basis and who are just as rotten. It actually seems to be more the rule around here than the exception. I know plenty of kids who get regular smackdowns and they're still punks. I also know kids who aren't hit and behave well.
I used to be a card carrying member of the League Of Heavy Handed Disciplinarians, but I reformed. I can certainly relate to the overwhelming and hard to resist urge to knock some sense into them, but I never felt good about spanking afterward, so I ditched that parenting tool. It turns out that I was a much more effective parent as a non-hitter. I may or may not still be a card carrying member of the Association Of Nonsensical Yellers. I may or may not be also  | |
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luv4u said: Why does a parent need a belt or any other weapon to hit their child?? It's abuse. There is no need to use a weapon of any kind on a child or scream at them and call them names, put them down, etc.
There's a good book called 1-2-3 magic Any parent who hits a child or screams at them is themselves out of control. Just think the child learns to do the same behaviour when they grow up and have kids. our son's neurologist recommended that book! | |
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paintedlady said: DesireeNevermind said: Ok last thread I'm startign today.
But uh...
I just remembered something I saw last night. I'm at the whole foods and this chick in the parking lot is just yelling at her crying child and then WHAP!!! She lays one across the kid's face and said kid turns beet red. Now the child is really crying loud and the mom is all looking around like she's either embarassed or feeling guilty. Being a multi-track minded person I start thinking of MJ and his dad/manager abusing him, I think of that vid someone posted a while back where some mom is dragging her leashed child out of a store and I think of how my parents never laid a hand on me. Then I think of pulp fiction but not sure why. Of course this mom didn't really beat her kid IMO, maybe the slap was a little heavy cuz that kid went from white to native american but...I've seen other parents (usually moms) and ethnic moms at that, who go all bladerunner on their kids. I've only intervened twice in my life. Where does one draw the line between a spank, some scolding or mild discipline and abusing your child? Do you ever see parents losing control and step up and say something? So many kids end up in foster care b/c they come from abusive homes. Why are some parents so quick to hit anyway? OK, you my gurl and all, but you have to pump the brakes at sounding like you like wearing pillow cases on your head and are buddies with David Duke. Race has nothing to do with this equation, many white moms not only beat the shit outta their kids but are the worst when it comes to verbally abusing their kids. Violent people will just be violent, ethnicity has nothing to do with this one. Oh no doubt but I was only commenting on what I've seen and I usually see either white dads or ethnic moms who seem to go the extra mile and get with the name calling and swearing. I see white moms all the time who "hit" their kids and hit them unnecessarily hard but it just seems sometimes that the other parents (white dads and ethnic moms) were always throwing in the cuss words and name calling. Maybe it's a suburb vs. city thing. I dunno. Nobody get offended please, I aint tryna call ALL my sisters of color out to be worse than my white sisters.  | |
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No wonder violence still rules this world... 
Anyway, in my country corporal punishment is also illegal. I was shocked to see that in the States it's not. But it explains a lot of things... I am but mad north-northwest
when the wind is southerly I know a hawk from a handsaw | |
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I think violence still rules the world because people do dumb shit, and they do it as kids, and do it as adults, and make you want to do beat the shit out of them and shake some sense into them...or at least just shut them up 
if I feel I want to beat the shit out of someone it's probably because they are one annoying ass muthafucka! *side eye to kid* I don't feel the need to beat the shit out of my dog. Why? Cuz he listens and does what he needs to do.  | |
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"Consider the injustice of hitting children. We hit in order to inflict pain. The law does not permit us to inflict pain on anyone other than our children. Floggings of prisoners and in the armed services, the beating of wives and servants are part of an unwanted brutal past. Our laws prohibit us from inflicting pain on animals. Why our children?".
Ian Hassall, New Zealand Commissioner for Children, 1993 "The absence of violence in relations with children cannot be limited to a self-imposed obligation nor to a personal style of child-rearing practised by certain people. The absence of violence should be a norm respected by the whole of society, not only because even today too many children are the victims of acts of violence, but because children and their integrity as persons should be always and everywhere respected... Respect for children and violence against them can never go together. If one of the characteristics of a society which thinks of itself as civilised is the absence of violence, there can be no justification for violence against children". Belgian Commission on sexual exploitation of children, 1997 http://www.endcorporalpun...tdown.html I am but mad north-northwest
when the wind is southerly I know a hawk from a handsaw | |
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BklynBabe said: I think violence still rules the world because people do dumb shit, and they do it as kids, and do it as adults, and make you want to do beat the shit out of them and shake some sense into them...or at least just shut them up
if I feel I want to beat the shit out of someone it's probably because they are one annoying ass muthafucka! *side eye to kid* I don't feel the need to beat the shit out of my dog. Why? Cuz he listens and does what he needs to do. Oh... so NOW I get it! Everyone should feel safe as long as they do as you tell them! 
F***g hilarious!  I am but mad north-northwest
when the wind is southerly I know a hawk from a handsaw | |
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porfyrivrohi said: Everyone should feel safe as long as they do as you tell them! finally, you see how it is! duh!!  | |
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DesireeNevermind said: paintedlady said: OK, you my gurl and all, but you have to pump the brakes at sounding like you like wearing pillow cases on your head and are buddies with David Duke. Race has nothing to do with this equation, many white moms not only beat the shit outta their kids but are the worst when it comes to verbally abusing their kids. Violent people will just be violent, ethnicity has nothing to do with this one. Oh no doubt but I was only commenting on what I've seen and I usually see either white dads or ethnic moms who seem to go the extra mile and get with the name calling and swearing. I see white moms all the time who "hit" their kids and hit them unnecessarily hard but it just seems sometimes that the other parents (white dads and ethnic moms) were always throwing in the cuss words and name calling. Maybe it's a suburb vs. city thing. I dunno. Nobody get offended please, I aint tryna call ALL my sisters of color out to be worse than my white sisters.  I still lubs yo' crazy ass... 
I live in the city... never seen a dad hit any child. They do the "strict parent" thing here and give their kids one look, and the kiddies do this...   | |
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porfyrivrohi said: No wonder violence still rules this world...
Anyway, in my country corporal punishment is also illegal. I was shocked to see that in the States it's not. But it explains a lot of things... Yeah, everybody thinks their country is better.
To each his own. | |
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Hi everyone.
Third post, but I wanted to introduce myself. I'm deadmansbones. I left you a "halloween" present in the non-prince music section. As per the topic, I think it's better to use the time-out method. FYI, I read a recent article claiming any type of spanking negatively impacts a child's intelligence in addition to self-esteem issues.  | |
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paintedlady said: porfyrivrohi said: No wonder violence still rules this world...
Anyway, in my country corporal punishment is also illegal. I was shocked to see that in the States it's not. But it explains a lot of things... Yeah, everybody thinks their country is better.
To each his own. 
why do people think that way? amazing.
I was thinking perhaps corporal punishment is frowned up in some countries and made illegal because people have taken it way too far and physically damaged a child if not killed them. One thing about adults who make use of physical punishment...they don't realize their own strength when inflicting pain/punishment on a child. I guess the only way to mitigate that is to not hit a child in anger, but then again why else would you hit a child except for being angry at them? this a tricky one fo sho. | |
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deadmansbones said: Hi everyone.
Third post, but I wanted to introduce myself. I'm deadmansbones. I left you a "halloween" present in the non-prince music section. As per the topic, I think it's better to use the time-out method. FYI, I read a recent article claiming any type of spanking negatively impacts a child's intelligence in addition to self-esteem issues. i like that name! | |
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DesireeNevermind said: I guess the only way to mitigate that is to not hit a child in anger, but then again why else would you hit a child except for being angry at them?
well let me know because this child is acting the straight fool tonight and I'mma bout to go ballistic. Tell him to do his homework before dinner, here he go again with some lazy, sloppy ass ahit talking about "I'm done" now he's having a pure D tantrum because I told him he needs to get this fixed before dinner and yelling "I'm hungry" wasting more of his time with his bullshit and I'm pretty much through. I got some 1-2-3 Magic for that ASS!!! (PS this is ongoing homework issues for 4 weeks now and getting Fs on schoolwork when we were getting As) | |
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BklynBabe said: DesireeNevermind said: I guess the only way to mitigate that is to not hit a child in anger, but then again why else would you hit a child except for being angry at them?
well let me know because this child is acting the straight fool tonight and I'mma bout to go ballistic. Tell him to do his homework before dinner, here he go again with some lazy, sloppy ass ahit talking about "I'm done" now he's having a pure D tantrum because I told him he needs to get this fixed before dinner and yelling "I'm hungry" wasting more of his time with his bullshit and I'm pretty much through. I got some 1-2-3 Magic for that ASS!!! (PS this is ongoing homework issues for 4 weeks now and getting Fs on schoolwork when we were getting As)Like my mama used to say, "I'm going to have your father straighten your ass out!" That always snapped me back to reality.  |
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BklynBabe said: DesireeNevermind said: I guess the only way to mitigate that is to not hit a child in anger, but then again why else would you hit a child except for being angry at them?
well let me know because this child is acting the straight fool tonight and I'mma bout to go ballistic. Tell him to do his homework before dinner, here he go again with some lazy, sloppy ass ahit talking about "I'm done" now he's having a pure D tantrum because I told him he needs to get this fixed before dinner and yelling "I'm hungry" wasting more of his time with his bullshit and I'm pretty much through. I got some 1-2-3 Magic for that ASS!!! (PS this is ongoing homework issues for 4 weeks now and getting Fs on schoolwork when we were getting As) now the F to A is serious shit. | |
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deadmansbones said: Hi everyone.
Third post, but I wanted to introduce myself. I'm deadmansbones. I left you a "halloween" present in the non-prince music section. As per the topic, I think it's better to use the time-out method. Is is in most cases, but I found that the time out method was useless for my first born son who was an only child and he liked being alone. So he would dance in the corner and would just repeat the offense and happily ask for time out because he liked to be alone. So that wasn't an effective method of discipline for him, my youngest though was the opposite. She lives to be seen and heard so time out is a very effective tool for use as a consequence.
FYI, I read a recent article claiming any type of spanking negatively impacts a child's intelligence in addition to self-esteem issues. From my perspective, and IMO this is why I spank. I live in an urban environment with my children. Not in the safest neighborhood, although it is considered very "family oriented" with plenty of parks and a nearby beach. It is also the most densely populated by level 3 sex offenders than any other area in my city and shootings/violent acts occur on a regular basis here. I use spankings to teach on a very steep learning curve. Like "do it once only, because if you repeat that you can hurt yourself or someone else". I feel that where I live its a necessity to teach this way in order to safeguard my happy go lucky unaffected kids to be safe in their world. I do it to teach a healthy sense of fear that they would not other wise learn until they would be much older. I wonder if these studies are ever done in inner cities where danger is an ever present force. for me I spanked my kids when... -my son brought his swiss army knife to school ( he brought it to show off to his friends but he is a black kid and would have thrown away his future if he were caught with something so simple) -my son chased his sister with a butcher knife in the house -all three of them tried to stick bobby pins/keys in the sockets (yes, they removed the safety covers- all under age 2) -my son thought it was a good idea to jump in a strangers car and leave for icecream at age 4 -my daughter had an issue with wanting to get on men's laps at age 5 -my son hid from me in a department store for 1/2 an hour, thinking it was funny, he was 3 -my son (12) tried to make his younger (2) brother eat kenepas (a choke hazard) just to see what would happen I have very intelligent kids, I didn't want to rob them of their self esteem, but their safety was a greater concern for me. It may be barbaric, but with so many criminals and different cultures of people that are afraid to look out for other people's children, I had to make sure my kids could look out for themselves. sad but true. I don't regret ever spanking them, they are safe, happy and thriving in a not so forgiving city. IMHO in a less urban setting (fewer people/less crime) where many people speak the same language/culture and look out for one another's kids, spankings just aren't needed. I am sure many may disagree.  | |
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he lucky he calmed his ass down! I gave him 2 options, shut his fucking mouth or get a spanking and shut his fucking mouth and he chose option a....he even just apologized for not doing his work right the first time. I just put the timer on and gave him 40 minutes to get this work done because his ass will get put to bed at 8!
now I'mma take my blood pressure medicine and try to calm down. y'all remember how nice I was when I keel over dead from a stroke | |
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paintedlady said: deadmansbones said: Hi everyone.
Third post, but I wanted to introduce myself. I'm deadmansbones. I left you a "halloween" present in the non-prince music section. As per the topic, I think it's better to use the time-out method. Is is in most cases, but I found that the time out method was useless for my first born son who was an only child and he liked being alone. So he would dance in the corner and would just repeat the offense and happily ask for time out because he liked to be alone. So that wasn't an effective method of discipline for him, my youngest though was the opposite. She lives to be seen and heard so time out is a very effective tool for use as a consequence.
FYI, I read a recent article claiming any type of spanking negatively impacts a child's intelligence in addition to self-esteem issues. From my perspective, and IMO this is why I spank. I live in an urban environment with my children. Not in the safest neighborhood, although it is considered very "family oriented" with plenty of parks and a nearby beach. It is also the most densely populated by level 3 sex offenders than any other area in my city and shootings/violent acts occur on a regular basis here. I use spankings to teach on a very steep learning curve. Like "do it once only, because if you repeat that you can hurt yourself or someone else". I feel that where I live its a necessity to teach this way in order to safeguard my happy go lucky unaffected kids to be safe in their world. I do it to teach a healthy sense of fear that they would not other wise learn until they would be much older. I wonder if these studies are ever done in inner cities where danger is an ever present force. for me I spanked my kids when... -my son brought his swiss army knife to school ( he brought it to show off to his friends but he is a black kid and would have thrown away his future if he were caught with something so simple) -my son chased his sister with a butcher knife in the house -all three of them tried to stick bobby pins/keys in the sockets (yes, they removed the safety covers- all under age 2) -my son thought it was a good idea to jump in a strangers car and leave for icecream at age 4 -my daughter had an issue with wanting to get on men's laps at age 5 -my son hid from me in a department store for 1/2 an hour, thinking it was funny, he was 3 -my son (12) tried to make his younger (2) brother eat kenepas (a choke hazard) just to see what would happen I have very intelligent kids, I didn't want to rob them of their self esteem, but their safety was a greater concern for me. It may be barbaric, but with so many criminals and different cultures of people that are afraid to look out for other people's children, I had to make sure my kids could look out for themselves. sad but true. I don't regret ever spanking them, they are safe, happy and thriving in a not so forgiving city. IMHO in a less urban setting (fewer people/less crime) where many people speak the same language/culture and look out for one another's kids, spankings just aren't needed. I am sure many may disagree.  okay I'm leaning toward the side of spanking. Dayum girl...your darling little angels did all that? They look too innocent.
I can relate to the sticking bobby pins in the light socket. My girlfriends 2 year old daughter used a fork and her little fingertipss turned black and she cried and cried. Her mom was too frightened and pannicky to spank her but I soooo wanted to cuz I felt bad for giving her the fork in the first place. | |
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