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PrintableNuPwrSoul said: I just want to make sure I understand what you are saying here--are you saying that the government considers white people guilty from birth and in debt to another group of people? The government?
Are you also saying that certain segments of the society do the same? Do you feel that those segments of the society can/have exercised enough pressure with the government to shape white people such that they live their lives frought with guilty and in debt to someone else? No...not yet...but this is the ideological pressure I see forming. Fear is the mind-killer. | |
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It's hard for a white person 2 understand America from a blak perspective, but there is a reason why I think blacks are more in2 crime then whites. I know all black folks are not born in the ghetto, but for those who are, you don't really have much of a choice, you either live a life crime, you die at a early age or you end up in jail. If your not rich white male climbing the coperate ladder, it's a real strugle for the black male in particular 2 make it 2 the top(despite afirmtive action) This is why it seems as if Black commit more crimes then white and why the statistics are growing higher everyday. I can get deeper into this dicussion, but like someone said earlier I don't want Ian 2 boot me either, lol.
DigitalLisa] [This message was edited Thu Dec 19 7:34:43 PST 2002 by DigitalLisa] | |
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DigitalLisa said: It's hard for a white person 2 understand America from a blak perspective, but there is a reason why I think blacks are more in2 crime then whites. I know all black folks are not born in the ghetto, but for those who are, you don't really have much of a choice, you either live a life crime, you die at a early age or you end up in jail. If your not rich white male climbing the coperate letters, it's a real strugle for the black male in particular 2 make it 2 the top(despite infirmtive action) This is why it seems as if Black commit more crimes then white and why the statistics are growing higher everyday. I can get deeper into this dicussion, but like someone said earlier I don't want Ian 2 boot me either, lol.
You can discuss it all you like, as long as you don't start calling people names and breaking forum rules. SUPERJOINT RITUAL - http://www.superjointritual.com
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teller said: NuPwrSoul said: I just want to make sure I understand what you are saying here--are you saying that the government considers white people guilty from birth and in debt to another group of people? The government?
Are you also saying that certain segments of the society do the same? Do you feel that those segments of the society can/have exercised enough pressure with the government to shape white people such that they live their lives frought with guilty and in debt to someone else? No...not yet...but this is the ideological pressure I see forming. Thank you for your response. "That...magic, the start of something revolutionary-the Minneapolis Sound, we should cherish it and not punish prince for not being able to replicate it."-Dreamshaman32 | |
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DigitalLisa said: I know all black folks are not born in the ghetto, but for those who are, you don't really have much of a choice, you either live a life crime, you die at a early age or you end up in jail.
I'm sorry, but I do not agree with that. Everyone has a choice, just because someone was born/lives in the ghetto does not mean that they don't really have a choice but to live a life of crime. There is ALWAYS a choice, no matter who you are or where you live. | |
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AzureStar said: DigitalLisa said: I know all black folks are not born in the ghetto, but for those who are, you don't really have much of a choice, you either live a life crime, you die at a early age or you end up in jail.
I'm sorry, but I do not agree with that. Everyone has a choice, just because someone was born/lives in the ghetto does not mean that they don't really have a choice but to live a life of crime. There is ALWAYS a choice, no matter who you are or where you live. True, but if you go 2 a school system where the teachers are underqualifield, teaching you things you really don't need 2 know or you already know or if your siting at home hungry and yor parents are making little money if any money at all and you see people sailing dope everday,driving fancy and wearing all the latest fashion, walking around with a wod of money in your hands, chances are you want the same thing too, and you'll do whatever you can 2 survive ... In a lot of ways your choices are limit, are unless you look beyond it all. ALot of time it doesn't work that way ... it's called real life [This message was edited Thu Dec 19 7:46:55 PST 2002 by DigitalLisa] | |
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And yes I know white people in the ghetto 2 lol,so who's 2 say who's acting black or white? [This message was edited Thu Dec 19 7:49:48 PST 2002 by DigitalLisa] | |
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Kozol, Jonathan. Death at an Early Age: the Destruction of the Hearts and Minds of Negro Children in the Boston Public Schools. New York: NAL-Dutton, 1967.
---. Savage Inequalities: Children in America's Schools. New York:HarperCollins, 1991. ---. Ordinary Resurrections: Children in the Years of Hope. New York:Crown, 2000. *** You can get out of it, but everything is going against you. Jonathan Kozol...if you are interested, read the books I have posted above. It taught me a lot about what I didn't understand about how different things can be, depending on where you are raised. Only difference with my upbringing, is the crime was missing...most other things are very similar. I was able to break the chain.  | |
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LaVisHh said: Kozol, Jonathan. Death at an Early Age: the Destruction of the Hearts and Minds of Negro Children in the Boston Public Schools. New York: NAL-Dutton, 1967.
---. Savage Inequalities: Children in America's Schools. New York:HarperCollins, 1991. ---. Ordinary Resurrections: Children in the Years of Hope. New York:Crown, 2000. That's why I just  ya LAV.
I love Kozol. Not familiar with his first book, but Savage Inequalities and Ordinary Resurrections broke it DOWN!  "That...magic, the start of something revolutionary-the Minneapolis Sound, we should cherish it and not punish prince for not being able to replicate it."-Dreamshaman32 | |
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NuPwrSoul said: That's why I just
ya LAV.
I love Kozol. Not familiar with his first book, but Savage Inequalities and Ordinary Resurrections broke it DOWN!
back at ya! | |
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NuPwrSoul said: IceNine said: NuPwrSoul said: Now let me ask you this: -You have posted an article that argues that race is biologically determined. -You have posted several articles that list crime rates according to racial categories--categories that you seem to believe are biologically determined -You have suggested that it is useful for law enforcement to engage in profiling people by racial categoreis--categories that you seem to believe are biologically determined Is this correct? Do you believe that biology is the sole determinant in forming racial identity? What do you believe the role of biology to be in those crime statistics which are organized by racial identity which you believed to be based in biology? I believe that there is one race and that race is human. I do, however, believe that there are genetic factors that are related to "race" as a phenotype and that give people their appearance and that this appearance is deemed race by society. Do I believe that race is a useful distinction? No. A good person is a good person, regardless of ethnicity, nationality or whatever. I dislike people on an individual basis, as I dislike the person doing crimes and horrible things and not the race of the person doing the crimes. The fact is that INDIVIDUAL people are bad, NOT entire races and that has been my point through all of my posts. I have ONLY referred to the racial statistics in response to your post about whites being more likely to shoot at unarmed blacks in laboratory experiments. Your post was intended to make it look like the results of the experiment showed tremendous racism in whites in that we would shoot more unarmed blacks than whites in experiments. I presented data that explained the perception that blacks might be more dangerous and would therefore be more likely to be shot at in laboratory experiments. It is a pretty simple concept. AS I HAVE SAID 1,000 TIMES BEFORE: I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT BLACKS ARE GENETICALLY PREDISPOSED TO CRIME! Now, I don't really care if everyone thinks that I am a racist because I present statistics and data and I cannot do anything other than be true to who and what I am. I absolutely believe that everyone is equal on a human level and that NOBODY is genetically more likely to do crime than anyone else. Anyone saying that I have said or implied that is a fool who has not understood ANYTHING that I have said. I do, however, find it amusing that some people have decided that I am a racist when I have said nothing racist on here. I have presented information that is difficult for some to accept and I have shown that whites do not do as high a percentage of crime per capita. This does not mean that whites are superior to blacks. In fact, I agreed with you before when you proposed social reasons such as poverty, lack of education and the breakdown of the community structure as a possible explanation for high crime rates among black communities. Beyond that, I have said that I believe that the vast majority of all blacks are good people who value ethics and justice. All of the posts that I have made were made with the specific purpose of showing data that people ordinarily do not see and presenting it in response to assertions that whites were racist. TO CLARIFY MY POSITION FOR THOSE WHO DO NOT UNDERSTAND ME AT ALL: I believe that all people are equal as humans and that it is only their actions that differentiate them. I am speaking only of my conception of people and how I view them, not society as a whole. I do not believe that any race is superior to anyone else in any way, intellectually, morally or ethically. Thank you for your response. You're welcome. SUPERJOINT RITUAL - http://www.superjointritual.com
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A link to an interview with Jonathan Kozol...for those interested in who he is, and what the books he wrote are about.
http://www.education-worl...s164.shtml | |
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DigitalLisa said: AzureStar said: DigitalLisa said: I know all black folks are not born in the ghetto, but for those who are, you don't really have much of a choice, you either live a life crime, you die at a early age or you end up in jail.
I'm sorry, but I do not agree with that. Everyone has a choice, just because someone was born/lives in the ghetto does not mean that they don't really have a choice but to live a life of crime. There is ALWAYS a choice, no matter who you are or where you live. True, but if you go 2 a school system where the teachers are underqualifield, teaching you things you really don't need 2 know or you already know or if your siting at home hungry and yor parents are making little money if any money at all and you see people sailing dope everday,driving fancy and wearing all the latest fashion, walking around with a wod of money in your hands, chances are you want the same thing too, and you'll do whatever you can 2 survive ... In a lot of ways your choices are limit, are unless you look beyond it all. ALot of time it doesn't work that way ... it's called real life [This message was edited Thu Dec 19 7:46:55 PST 2002 by DigitalLisa] Still, there is a choice. Lead a life of crime or don't. Choices are not limited... there is ALWAYS a choice, so they cannot be limited. One may be more difficult than the other... that is true. By saying that people in the ghetto really have no choice than to live a life of crime, they do. They do not have to choose to live that life. A very good friend of mine grew up in the ghetto, and recently he was able to move his family out of there. He chose to not go the route of living a life of crime. His family did not have any money and it was difficult to put food on the table, his friends had that wad of money, the fancy cars, the extravagant things... but he chose instead to take the bus 35 miles away and get a job as a janitor at a nursing home, as well as work at the local gas station at night. He worked his ass off, and though it was hard, he was able to provide the necessities for his family and he was able to get out of there. He had a choice, just like everyone does. He could have easily chose to live that life of crime. | |
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June7 said: 
Reminds me of that Seth Green character in that teen movie where he's all actin' a fool! It had what's her name, Jennifer Love Hewitt in it... Makes me laugh whenever I see a whiteboy actin' all black...tryin' ever so hard not 2 b himself! But, in adolescence it's okay, even expected, it's the men in their 20's I'd worry more about!  It's "Can't Hardly Wait", and this was a surprisingly funny movie! | |
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DigitalLisa said: The only difference between black and white is that the words are spelled different
when 'whiteboys' are violent, you get a "SHIT KICKIN" when it's a BLACK THANG you get "STOMPT" i'ld rather the shit kickin.. I AM King BAD a.k.a. BAD,
YOU EITHER WANNA BE ME, OR BE JUST LIKE ME  ™ | |
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AzureStar said: 00769BAD said: so imagine how fucked up it was for me when in a simular
situation i find that the 'backwards cap wearin, fubu pants saggin, fat chain wearin, 1/2 karat stud havin' muthafucka was my 55 year old LAWYER. "bout to go hit this blunt and holla at this ho fo a minit. the judge will be in at around 10:15 and he's callin your case first... and BAD,don't wear the armani." You've got a way with words... i should PROOFREAD my shit
but here, problem solved... I AM King BAD a.k.a. BAD,
YOU EITHER WANNA BE ME, OR BE JUST LIKE ME ™ | |
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I don't agree that teenages don't have an identity yet...they most definitely do have an identity, they just don't trust or believe in it enough...as well as they feel as if society is telling them (thru music, videos and entertainment) that their real identity isn't "cool" enough, isn't hip enough, isn't sexy enough...
I also think it's a bit naive to think that 14 year old surburban white kids are "celebrating black culture" when they adopt those characteristics generally associated with black/inner city culture...to truly celebrate any culture, you'd have to sincerely and fully understand it, find beauty and glory in it, and decide for yourself that there is much there to champion and emulate within your own life...and I'm pretty damn sure that none of these kids have delved into the black culture to any great depth to qualify their actions as celebratory...it's surface mimickery at best, for no other reason than insecurity about the worth and value of their own personal identities...which, for a teenager, is to be expected... The thing is, though, that these same kids are gonna shed their "black culture" appendages as soon as they realilze keeping them will limit their access to opportunities to jobs, housing and the like...which, I think, is what bothers many who see "white" kids acting like the "gangstas" we all know they're not...it's the fact that those blacks who grew up in the inner cities and who live these cultural mannerisms and characteristics did so because of their enviornment, their surroundings, and not because MTV told them it was "cool"...within the inner city it was organic, and not synthetically produced...it had a life of it's own, based in a foundation of very real social ills, poverty, racism, etc, and even a desire to find pride in who and what they've become because of it all...and for them, it is not so easily shed simply because they've turned 21 and want to work at Bank Of America now... | |
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wellbeyond said: I don't agree that teenages don't have an identity yet...they most definitely do have an identity, they just don't trust or believe in it enough...as well as they feel as if society is telling them (thru music, videos and entertainment) that their real identity isn't "cool" enough, isn't hip enough, isn't sexy enough...
I also think it's a bit naive to think that 14 year old surburban white kids are "celebrating black culture" when they adopt those characteristics generally associated with black/inner city culture...to truly celebrate any culture, you'd have to sincerely and fully understand it, find beauty and glory in it, and decide for yourself that there is much there to champion and emulate within your own life...and I'm pretty damn sure that none of these kids have delved into the black culture to any great depth to qualify their actions as celebratory...it's surface mimickery at best, for no other reason than insecurity about the worth and value of their own personal identities...which, for a teenager, is to be expected... The thing is, though, that these same kids are gonna shed their "black culture" appendages as soon as they realilze keeping them will limit their access to opportunities to jobs, housing and the like...which, I think, is what bothers many who see "white" kids acting like the "gangstas" we all know they're not...it's the fact that those blacks who grew up in the inner cities and who live these cultural mannerisms and characteristics did so because of their enviornment, their surroundings, and not because MTV told them it was "cool"...within the inner city it was organic, and not synthetically produced...it had a life of it's own, based in a foundation of very real social ills, poverty, racism, etc, and even a desire to find pride in who and what they've become because of it all...and for them, it is not so easily shed simply because they've turned 21 and want to work at Bank Of America now... Very well said, Wellbeyond... as usual. SUPERJOINT RITUAL - http://www.superjointritual.com
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even tho Urban America (African American/Puerto Rican & other people of colour) cre8ted the... Hip Hop Trends we see but when i was in2 The Revolutionary Hip Hop we NEVER referred 2 1another as Dawg or Nigga.
it was more like: Peace God/Allah or Peace Kid. i was in2 the 5%ers or The Nation of Godz & Earths more so than the Nigga & Dawg termz. i still have my Problem Book written by Dr. York. anybody feelin' me on that 1? anyway... we should try & Educate them Foolz & tell em what Time it is. Good Topic Tho...  Peace ... & Stay Funky ...
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IceNine said: You know what else I really hate?
Yep... I hate it when you see white kids from the suburbs wearing all FUBU clothes with gold chains and a baseball cap turned sideways... they invariably try to speak ebonics as well. I like to think that these kids would take a tremendous ass whipping if they dropped into a black neighborhood acting like they do. Why can't people just be themselves? where i come from(Saint John New Brunswick,Canada)we don't really have black or white neighbourhoods but however we sure do have an awful lot of "wiggers".i try 2 not let them get 2 me,but being 1/2 black 1/2 white i personally get both sides of the story,2 the average joe i look (on the surface)white but if u hang out with my friends & i u will deffinately know that i am a proud black man.however(getting back 2 the subject @ hand) i agree with u Ice,if i ever saw what u described in the hood we affectionatly call "the boulevard" i would tell him/her 2 run 4 u're life.   **************************************************
 SINGING IS THE LOWEST FORM OF COMMUNICATION - HOMER J. SIMPSON
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NuPwrSoul said: IceNine said: You know what else I really hate?
Yep... I hate it when you see white kids from the suburbs wearing all FUBU clothes with gold chains and a baseball cap turned sideways... they invariably try to speak ebonics as well. I like to think that these kids would take a tremendous ass whipping if they dropped into a black neighborhood acting like they do. Why can't people just be themselves? So because someone looks "white" they shouldn't wear certain clothes, or speak in a certain way? Should those things be limited to people who only look a certain way? Generally people who have a problem with a "white boy" acting "black" do NOT have a problem when a black person acts "white". I remember countering a similar statement in a college course called "Sex, Racism and Violence" and the kid didn't know what to say... | |
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A problem that I see is that with all the violence and degrading of women present in hip-hop, many white kids who are trying to "act black", "be street" whatever...take on this role. It's almost as if they think "acting black" requires this type of behavior. It's almost racist in and of itself for a white kid to behave in such a manner.
On the other hand, a white kid who truly appreciates hip hop as an art form...realizes that not all hip hop is violent, sexist, etc. is cool to me. I know alot of white boys who get into the social conscious rappers like The Roots, Common, Talik Kweli, etc. Still with the commercialism of many of today's shitty rap artists (Cash Money, Ja-Rule, etc.), many of the young suburban youth of today are probably acting more like the first example... | |
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IceNine said: AbucahX said: One of my neighbors is a 15 year old white kid. He approached (wearing a wave cap, yep, the white boy was wearing a wave cap) me while I was washing my car and said "Wassup, are you down wit smoking a sac and fucking dem hoes tonight?" I replied and told him "I don't smoke weed and I don't have sex with hoes" Then he replied "I'll be at da crib tonight, hit me up on my celly if you change your mind and I'll call my niggaz up"
The kid refer to himself and his white friends as "niggaz" Who's to blame? Hip hop music? Or is it the culture of today's youth? You should have given the dumb little fucker a savage beating. Why would you say such a thing? Don't he have a right too say/do these things? No? Who is SweeTea? | |
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how the fuck does one act black or act white ?
kids follow trends, often related to the music they like. as someone may have already said , goths wear black, hip hop kids wear baggy jeans and ridiculous baseball caps hip hop is now the dominant culture so more kids gonna be into it, they just wanna be like the rappers they see on mtv if you like hip hop it doesnt mean you are acting black or want to be black anymore than being a country fan makes you a good ole southern redneck <<< my future baby mama
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June7 said:
Reminds me of that Seth Green character in that teen movie where he's all actin' a fool! It had what's her name, Jennifer Love Hewitt in it... Makes me laugh whenever I see a whiteboy actin' all black...tryin' ever so hard not 2 b himself! But, in adolescence it's okay, even expected, it's the men in their 20's I'd worry more about! reminds me of justin timberlake! | |
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ËVERYBODY'S HAVIN' PROBLEMS !!
( thanks to Cable TV ) And, People that Actually give a shit, about who they AREN'T ?? Ya Heard ? "Who gon' clean up all deez Flowers" ----Eddie Murphy as mr. clarence | |
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I is got shit to do... King BAD is the giver of ME LIFE
Me will Live for he, Me Die for He this account, i would make it FRY for He. | |
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I think the X is right. I am personally offended when young white kids dressed to the nines in wanksta gear acknowledge me, in a suit and tie, speaking slang. It's the worst kind of insult imaginable: ignorant youth actually trying to condescend to you. They'd never speak to whites my age like that, but somehow they feel comfortable doing that with black people.
That, to me, clearly demonstrates that the hip-hop wanksta/"wigger" motif is a fetish, a glorification of minstrelsy, which is no different than what happened in the old minstrel days. The tragedy is the hip-hop community fuels the fire, because the white kids buy the records and the clothes. Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016
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namepeace said: The tragedy is the hip-hop community fuels the fire, because the white kids buy the records and the clothes. Something is structurally wrong with this sentence. I think it should probably read something like: The tragedy is the white kids fuel the tragedy of the hip-hop community because they buy the records and the clothes. Yes, I think that fits the gist of this thread better, don't you? [This message was edited Wed Jul 16 17:17:28 PDT 2003 by penelopeperriwinkle] Who is SweeTea? | |
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I genuinely think it is sad. Exactly what I find sad, is the following.
That children have obviously not been allowed to be themselves enough and encouraged to be themselves by their parents, that they don't come into young adulthood being appreciated and valued for who they are, and that they don't feel validated as a person and loved and cared for. That's why in my book that so many young adults/children of today are needing to identify strongly with an external thingme (in theoretical terms, it's called a 'locus of evaluation'. During therapy, the focus is shifted from 'out there' to 'in here'.). And I believe that is for survival purposes. People are fantastic at adapting. And it is difficult all through life to be oneself I think, the places of non self connection just become not so obvious to see, imo. | |
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