AaronUnlimited said:

EXACTLY. They have no identity to lose in the first place. They are trying out different things to see what works.

AbucahX said:

That sounds like a bad case of stupidity to me. It may even be terminal.

Black or white, anyone speaking like that needs a swift kick up the arse.

NuPwrSoul said:

Right...but they still would benefit from getting their asses kicked...

teller said:

True!

NuPwrSoul said:

we agree on something. oh dear

NuPwrSoul said:

ICENINE SAID:

In relation to crime, you have stated that there is no such thing as race and that what we are dealing with is culture.

On another thread,

NuPwrSoul said:

You also argued that we should not use race for such things... one could take this view to mean that this white kid was actually black due to his co-opting of the black hip-hop culture.

So, if race is socially and politically dead, how can you say that you believe in race???


....
[This message was edited Wed Dec 18 17:46:46 PST 2002 by IceNine]

From Elvis too Eminem it's always been in Vogue too Be Down with Black Culture in a Pop Culture Way.it's I wanna Be Down but I don't wanna be Down.think "Do The Right Thing" Pino Loves Magic Johnson,Prince&Eddie Murphy&they Represent A Safeness from afar without having too be.it's a Way Slave Master too Slave Mentality:as long as you can brign Entertainment&whatnot then Cool but I don't wanna know your Pain&Struggle.when a White Cat is Down He is Considered Cool when a brother trys too Cross-Over He is Considered a Oreo or a Sell-Out.2003 is coming&you'd swear the issues we are stuck with are the year 1903??

mistermaxxx said:

says who? does anyone really think that?

AaronUnlimited said:

Hell no.

IceNine said:

yes they do.I've followed,Read&Studied this Topic for many years&Being a Black Man Myself I've wittnessed this First Hand&while Black Folks are labeled for watching too Much TV&whatnot it's White Kids that truly Imitate the Images&Music more so than Us.70-75% of all Buyers of Rap/Hip-Hop Music are White Kids&Adults.from the Pop Culture Perspective if a White Cat is Down He is Considered Cool.check out all the Juice Justin TImberlake is getting?what is He doing as a Artist that Sisqo&Usher haven't? especially Sisqo when you throw in the Group Factor.

mistermaxxx said:

I see what you are getting at... I thought he meant "do the black kids think that the white kids are cool" and I seriously doubt that they do. I imagine that they laugh at them.

IceNine said:

I said that "race" is only relevant to the degree that it is a factor. And with regard to crime, with the exception of hate-crimes based on "race," I do not see how someone's apparent racial identity is related to crime.

"Race" as a scientific concept IS dead, but that doesn't mean that people have accepted its death; and it doesn't mean that it doesn't continue to shape and affect people's political, social, and cultural life.

I said "race" as a political and social construct was on its deathbed, but it ain't dead. Not by a long shot unfortunately as it continues to be in play to mask the economically based exploitation of poor people.

To the degree that race is deployed in political and social policies, even though it has been proven to have no scientific basis, I believe that race is partially (and hopefully temporarily) useful in addressing policies that have negatively impacted people simply on the basis of their apparent racial identities.

As a cultural construct, race is probably not going away, I said, because it has proven to be a resource of survival strategies for people seeking to cope and defend themselves from those political and social policies, and even assaults dressed up as scientific truth. Part of that has included some of the most beautiful cultural traditions that this country has ever known and for that alone people will probably hold on to a notion of "black" culture.

With that being said, constructions of racial identity are hardly arbitrary. There is some wiggle room due to the culture's hybridity, but first and foremost, racial identity construction is rooted in how someone looks. Because many still erroneosly believe that race is scientific, the first markers they use to signify someone's "race" is their parentage, country of origin, and their appearance (skin color, hair texture, etc.). That alone would make it difficult for someone who looks "white" (as "white" is culturally constructed) to be considered "black."

Added to that is the fact that beyond those initial signifiers, one's racial identity (cultural, political, social) is constructed based collective experiences of people who share those initial similarities (parentage, appearance, etc.). That would make it further unlikely that someone who looks "white" would be considered "black."

mistermaxxx said:

well for one thing, both Sisqo and Usher were/are incredibly populer, so I'm not sure what your point is. as for Justin, i've never seen him act like a "white boy with identity crisis" or like he's trying to be "down." he's a singer and dancer. it's what he does. it's what he continues to do.

as for the original point, i ask again. WHO thinks that these white kids are cool? not me. nor anyone i've ever known, white or black. do YOU think they're cool? do you know anyone personally who thinks these white kids are cool for acting like they're "down" as you put it?

AbucahX said:

so imagine how fucked up it was for me when in a simular
situation i find that the 'backwards cap wearin, fubu pants
saggin, fat chain wearin, 1/2 karat stud havin' muthafucka
was my 55 year old LAWYER.
"bout to go hit this blunt and holla at this ho fo a minit.
the judge will be in at around 10:15 and he's callin your case first... and BAD,don't wear the armani."
[This message was edited Sat Jan 11 22:35:52 PST 2003 by 00769BAD]

ok yall my show is on...

http://www.prince.org/msg...&tid=31435

be back when its over.

Diary of a Self-Professed Wigga by Ian

I grew up listening to hiphop, as well as soul, funk, blues, jazz etc - black music. Most of my musical heroes as a kid were black. As a kid I definitely aped the hiphop fashions coz I wanted to look as cool as my heroes.

Even now, although I'm old and wise and grown up, I still tend to wear very expensive sneakers and dangerously baggy jeans.

If it gets me off the hook though, I speak proper English - sorry, I could try talking like Tupac or Dr. Dre but in an Irish accent it would just sound silly.

I dunno... teenagers who are into rock wear black T-shirts and grow their hair... teenagers into hiphop wear addidas and kangol etc. It's stupid, but teenagers are stupid really aren't they?

The thing is though... looking up to guys like Chuck D, or Grandmaster Flash, or LL Cool J, or Tribe Called Quest etc - that's fine because they are cool guys. But copying the bunch of barely-literate ice-flashing morons that populate MTV nowadays is just moronic.

Just from the title of the thread...

I think most people have 'IDENTITY CRISIS'

00769BAD said:

You've got a way with words...

...maybe from what I see anyway, but maybe not so...

AaronUnlimited said:

of course you wouldn't know because you don't see the Product aspect of it when it comes too Race.Sisqo isn't incredibly Popular.He is back with Dru Hill&almost done.He had a Catchy Song&His Album made a little noise but that was it.Usher has a solid Following but He isn't getting the attention Justin is.Justin Timberlake is trying to Be like Michael Jackson¬ too mention he is working with the Big Names of Rap Producers&Artists.60 Minutes had a whole Story on how white Acts are Using Black producers&whatnot as a way too having Street Cred.Brittney Spears,Christina Agullaria,etc.. are using Hip-Hop Elements&Clothing in there Image&Music.Beyonce Knowles pointed this out in a Interview as well.

NuPwrSoul said:

If you believe that there is NO scientific basis for race, you MUST admit that this white kid COULD be black in relation to his adoption of black cultural ideals, mannerisms, vernacular speech and style of clothing. This kid had the "hip-hop" or "street black" thing going and was working very hard to be "black," so all he needs to do is move to a black neighborhood if race is NOT scientific. According to your definitions above, the only reason that this kid could not be black is prejudice on the part of blacks who would not accept him as one of them. Remember, you said that there is NO scientific basis for race.

Also, you said that race is used to "mask the economically based exploitation of poor people," therefore poor whites are actually black, as there is no scientific reason that they should be called white rather than black.

To take this even further, you must then agree that reparations MUST be given to ALL poor people, as we cannot even use genetics to determine the "race" of individuals, as race is not scientific... therefore, all poor whites should benefit from Affirmative Action as well...

If, on the other hand, race is determined by genetic traits, he will always be a white kid trying to co-opt black culture and will be foolish for his efforts.

:LOL:

IceNine said:[quote]00769BAD said:[quote]

IceNine said:

Why does one have to put color on fashion trends, and linguistics? What everyone is implying is that ebonics and some fashion are exclusive to the black community. Why is it exclusive? Do white people not deserve to follow these trends started by black communities?

I mean, if some black guy is listening to Garth Brooks, and I said "Hey, listen to your own damn music! Garth is for the white boys!", would that not be inappropriate?

Especially for youth. Let people be, and figure out for themselves what styles and attitudes best highlight their personality.

That's just my opinion though. and as it is contradictory, it will invariably be attacked. oh well. such is life.

mistermaxxx said:

which makes him no different than hundreds of other pop acts from the last 5 years, white or black.



you're kidding right? the dude is in Twix commercials. in 97 when his debut dropped, he was one of the most talked about acts of the year. and his latest album has had several extremely successful singles. not to mention the movies he's been in, etc.




well for one thing, he's trying to the white Michael Jackson. the singing and dancing style that Justin' co-oped is straight out of the Bad/Dangerous era and on. and these producers Justin's working with have had huge hits with black artists... so again, what's your point?



well hello 1955.



ummm... so? at a certain points, some things (clothes, music styles, slang) no longer belong JUST to the culture they originated in. your point would be akin to me hating Avril Lavigne because she co-opted the gay slang term "boi" for her last single or frat boys who in the last few years have suddenly realized it's cool to change your hair color or put gel in your hair when 10 years ago that was positively only for queers.

and i do hate those things, but i realize it's stupid of me, at least.
[This message was edited Wed Dec 18 18:46:21 PST 2002 by AaronUnlimited]

basically, what do we want? do we all want to "come together as one" or some such nonsensical cliche to describe breaking down barriers and interacting with one another and sharing common values and experiences?


or will it be "up with segregation" because we feel resentment when we see it happening with today's kids?

Warning, a bit of a rant...

Does anyone remember using the derogatory term "poser" as a kid? I hated the term, but that's basically what we're talking about here, isn't it? Someone behaving/dressing/talking in a way that "normally" they wouldn't. I hated the word, (though I don't ever remember being called one ) cause I always felt like, who cares what someone's trying to be or not? But then again, I've always thought, if you're trying, you're trying too hard. Whether that be fashion, attitude, sexuality, whatever. You should just be.
And most of us will have to admit, we did some silly things as a kid. I remember thinking I was pretty damn cool and unique and so not like everyone else for being into goth and whatnot as an 8th grader, but when I looked back later, I realized I was just conforming to a different ideal. Everyone who was "into" the same things as I were dressed the same, styled their hair similar, listened to similar music etc. Now, I still hold a part of that self with me today (can't get enough of the Cure after all these years) but I stopped trying, and now I'm just me. At least I'd like to think so.

CarrieMpls said:

and we love you just as you yes we do

AaronUnlimited said:

thanks, aaron!

AbucahX said:

I have 2 agree with u AbucahX.

But, what about those that r actually raised in black or latino urban areas?

These would b the white boys or people who r raised primarily black or brown. If one of these guys walked around with the "pimp" walk, and the gold chains, is it a result of hip-hop fashion, or cultural climate?

The "white" brother, in Beverly Hills, with the gold chains and the hip-hop lingo is ridiculous (sorry NwPwrSoul), regardless of where his heart is, it's ridiculous sounding. My daughter, age 15, says those who speak like that in her very culturally diverse school r regarded more in the "nerd"/"loser" catagory. Just as the Seth Green character I referred 2 earlier was also portrayed... I'd have 2 agree with her.

.
[This message was edited Wed Jul 16 10:17:05 PDT 2003 by Christopher]

June7 said:

No need to apologize to me--one, if you read my post, what I stated in my post are on the general phenomena of cultural exchange and said that we should not pass judgment on someone based on appearances, unless we know the full context. Once provide the full context, I DID say that it appeared to be other than genuine appreciation. Secondly, I don't need cheerleaders on this site so you don't need to apologize if you disagree with me.
.
[This message was edited Wed Dec 18 21:53:23 PST 2002 by NuPwrSoul]