Well, before I post this discussion, I want everyone to know that I in know way judge people based on their sexual preferences, nor do I feel they are inferior or some crap like that. This post is not an attempt to judge or flame, I just want to learn.

So, here's the deal:

How is it that one is gay? What I mean by this, is we all know that sexual urges are nature's way of ensuring the survival of the human race. That is to say, we naturally desire the opposite sex so that we can procreate.

One can easily say that being gay is a result of biological differences, but this doesn't make sense to me either. Since, by their very nature, the gay and lesbian community cannot reproduce, shouldn't the genetic trait of homosexuality die off? Many would argue that gays and lesbians have been forced to live IN the closet so they would reproduce anyways, but as homosexuality is becoming more acceptable in today's society, numbers are going UP and not DOWN. If more and more people are openly gay, then a trend towards smaller numbers of younger gay people should occur, assuming that the genetic theory is true. Now, I have taken minimal Biology courses, so I may be waaayyy of base here. If so , I'm sure you will correct me.

If it isn't genetic however, that means it's either the cause of one's external environment, or, it you believe in "free will", it's a personal choice.

Problem with external environment theory: If people LEARN to be gay, they could at the same time learn to be straight. Past attempts of "treating" (I know it sounds bad, but what I mean is people have tried to reverse people's gay tendencies with the belief that they were wrong) homosexuality have been unsuccesful. The fact of the matter is, ask any gay person, and they will tell you they've always felt the way they did. No matter how hard they were pressured to be straight (for whatever reason), they just can't because it's not who they are.

Problem with free will theory: Although it's become more accepted, it doesn't make any sense that someone would just "choose" to be gay. Facing facts, this world is cruel, harsh and judgemental. Why anyone would "choose" to live in the face of constant oppression baffles me.

So, it begs the question, what do you think is the cause of homosexuality? This is a controversial topic I know, but I don't think I'm way off base with my questions here, and I hope they don't make me sound ignorant or stupid. It has made me wonder though, because, while I don't see anything wrong with it, I at the same time can't see any motivation for it.

Thanks everyone. Here's hoping my name isn't etched into the "orgers we all laugh at" book.

I do not think there is PROOF for one or the other theory.
To be honest; I do not want to know.

Before you know the discover what makes a person gay and the filter it out genetically. Nazi style.

Even though my gut instinct says I have always been gay. And I have not been MADE gay in any other way than I was made white. Or a guy.

gooeythehamster said:

I'm sorry, I don't quite understand this line here. Could you clarify? thanks.

savoirfaire said:

There is no scientific proof of what makes a person gay. There have been many studies, but none was conclusive.
You state the two major ways of thinking about becoming homosexual; the first being that you are born that way, the second that people are made gay.
If there is a genetic thingie that makes me gay I just hope that they will never find it. So many people have prejudices about being gay that many parents will option to filter the gay thingie out of the genetic build up of their child.
I just hate the way that people want to know everything about everything. It is good to get to the bottom of things, but many scientific minds want to go even further, so they can manipulate things.
After having wrecked the earth, humanity now also wants to wreck havoc onto the human race even further. We are not even able to "filter" out things like racism by willpower. What is the next step? Filter things out genetically?

And the Nazi reference has to do with the fact that the Nazi's had a big curiousity into scientific areas. All for the wrong reasons. That's where it tied in with me comment.

Hope that is clear enuf. WIlling to elaborate more.

Making people gay, hehehe.

Just think about it.
I think so many people are trying hard to make their children anything BUT gay, right? Just cuz being gay is considered inferior by most people. I can understand the wish to make life for their children easier, but I myself am a stronger person becuz of it; I had to define my being in a way most people never have to.

This is what makes gay people sharper at a younger age, but also we are never able to retrieve that certain part that straight people have; being able to pursue their sexuality in a 'normal' way.
Falling in love with schoolmates, having bf's/gf's and so getting used to relations.

Young, gay people almost always are alone in a world of straightness, being impressed with straight prejudices about being gay.
It's a scary world out there...

I can only speak for myself, but I know that I was born gay.

to me ...it's such a small part of who someone is...unless they choose to make it a big deal...and if that's the case...then cool...whatever floats your boat...

MrBliss said:

This is such a cool statement.
And so true.
Many gay people seem to HAVE TO be flaming gay. That is their right, but to me that would be impossible.
For me, as well(?), being gay is just a part of my personality.
No Madonna in my profile on Yahoo, hehehe.

I am a casual guy, attracted to other casual guys. No Versace, please!

Haystack said:

LoL
I was MADE!

HAHAHAHA
insert maniacal FRANKENSTEIN-like laughter HERE

Personally, I believe attraction to someone of the same sex, or the opposite sex is not a choice.

A person can choose to act on their attraction or not... (forgive me in stating the obvious!) ... but I think that's where it ends... I certainly didn't choose to be straight, so why should one assume anyone else chose who they'd be attracted to...

As to what "causes" someone to be gay... well, my immediate reaction to that is... Does it really matter? It's a valid question to enquire about, and of course there are many theories and opinions... and the answers to such a type of question may not be the same for everyone...

Personally I don't have a burning desire to know the origins of ones sexual orientation, what matters to me is that we don't look at being gay as a disorder or a problem that needs to be treated or fixed. I think that's highly offensive. I certainly don't want someone telling me who I should be attracted to. I'm sure most of us don't.

People should be free to love whoever they love without discrimination. regardless of whether they're gay or straight.

We are so much more than just our sexual orientation...

As far as Im concerned I was born gay,it was never a concious decision.

I remember at the age of 5 looking at some of my fathers dirty magazines with my friend Donna.Neither of us were interested in the women.

Even at that early age,I knew "I was different from the other boys in the school yard"

Someone once asked if I could change the way things are,would I? I dont know.Sometimes with all the verbal abuse that one is subjected too.Both my bf and I have been queer bashed at one point or another

anyway Im sleepy and rambling

Much love Pochacco

Diva said:

excellent statement...

who the hell would choose to be ostrasized, discriminated, disrespected, picked upon, dismissed and possibly beat up because of their sexual preferance?? people that say that one CHOOSES to be gay obviously didn't think before they spoke...i did not choose to have brown hair, be tall, stubborn or straight so what makes people think being gay is a choice? this is my personal opinion here but i have no tolerance for ignorance nor stupidity but really, what does it matter why or how someone is gay...just spread the respect and love around, it'll come back to u

Diva says:

There ya go, girl. You are gorgeous too!

PURRR

savoirfaire said:

Some theories impart that it is just as 'natural' for humans to be homosexual as hetrosexual, since, if everyone was straight and everyone procreated, the human race would way overpopulate the planet (even more so than now), and humanity would expire as a species. Studies have been done (with rats - 'natch) where a large population was stuffed into a small living area and more were introduced each week and as time went on incidents of homosexuality in the rats increased commensurate with the population increase. The conclusion is that nature takes over with a solution when the species faces overpopulation (ie. self destruction).

Thank you everyone for your responses!

Some of the stuff was already covered in my original post (such as the whole choosing thing, not to mention oppression and discrimination), and others just said they were born gay, without helping me on the elaboration part of that theory, but nonetheless, I enjoyed hearing from all of you.

Please note, I am not implying that gay people need to be "fixed" or something stupid like that.

I too, believe that people are born as who they are. But the difference is, that people born with brown hair, or blue eyes are born like that because of their parent's genetic traits. People born straight are born because it's essential to survival of the species, as for as being born gay, it doesn't make sense -- to me -- genetically speaking.

So while I do believe people are born the way they are, I don't know why some people are born with sexual urges different from the norm. And it was just a matter of curiosity, to me, no different than asking why the sky is blue or something like that.

And don't go telling me why the sky is blue.

Thanks.

And the caption reads:
Please don't beat me, I'm already dead.

savoirfaire said:

basically, a large number of people who are extremist pro-lifers will suddenly see value in abortion.

AaronUnlimited said:

Hehehe. Yes. Indeed. Precisely. LoL. Good observation.

Sex and Reproduction are two seperate things.

Sex fullfills an emotional need.

Reproduction serves a practical purpose.

I was born gay. Just like you can dye your hair or wear color contact lenses, it will cover it up, but you still are who you are.

Maybe homosexuality is natures way of controlling population. If everyone was hetero we'd be grossly more overpopulated than we already are.

If you meet a homosexual couple and get to know them, you may be able to see a little clearer that its not a choice.

Tom said:

Stop leading me on.

You can not be gay.

It would ruin my status quo.

Hip, sexy, funny cute guys cannot be gay; it's impossible.

You are supposed to be straight.

And if you are gay; you must be at least afraid of commitment.

Common, make my day.

gooeythehamster said:

Diva said:

Who needs men anyway.
Let's become lesbian.

We can be butch.

gooeythehamster said:

LOL...

erm, wait a sec.... I'm not gonna be butch

Besides which, you know you and I would be hopeless at giving up men
.
[This message was edited Thu Dec 12 10:31:47 PST 2002 by Diva]

Diva said:

I hate it when people do this.
Did you make a spelling mistake or were you bitchy and then decided to be nice after all.

Common!
Let's be lesbian!
You'll be Thelma and I'll be Louise!
LoL
They were not lesbians, but what the heck!
I mean; I am Dutch. We have bleedin' folktales about girls with fingers in dykes.

Diva said:

I still wonder why...

Jay looks over his shoulder

Sorry, no approaching white horses.

What is wrong with me? LoL I mean, okay; I am whacky. But the rest about me is pretty okay. Why do I always end up with guys that ask me if I am into golden showers on the second date...
I am starting to wonder if I look like someone into that? I never wear yellow. Can't be that.

gooeythehamster said:

I wasn't being bitchy, I promise

Wasn't I supposed to be in bed an hour ago?! Now it is 6am and I still haven't slept, lol... deeelightful!

Ok Gooey, we'll be lesbians... *giggle*

I better try attempt that sleep thing people tend to indulge in every now and then...

Nighty night Louise

I wasnt gay at first (ages 0 - 10)

But after a while the urges started building up on me when this fine ass boy came 2 our school, the first time i though of a male attractive. The another Indian boy would sometime try and hump me in the schoolyard.

Then finally, one of my friends and I would sneak and have sex in the closet of my house when I was 11.

After that I have been attracted 2 men ever since.

AND I LOVE IT! I FEEL SO SPECIAL!! I dont feel like I have 2 b like everyone else.

Tom said:

I agree completely. From all the gay men I know (and I know too many!) I cannot help but see they are made to be that way.

But really, why should anyone care if it's a choice or not? I just don't understand the big deal. So what if people choose to be gay or not? People need to get it out of their heads that it's somehow wrong. Choice or not. Why should anyone care who someone else loves? People tend to forget, the issue goes way beyond sex. It's about who you love, even more so. And why should that ever be considered wrong, based only on gender.

OK, enough with the horse. I know. It's dead.