emm said:

I'm pro-choice, but abortion is hard on the body. 4 times in one year is too many.

It's her body.

Vendetta1 said:

Thatsmuthafuckinright

So this chick can't pop a birth control pill down her throat? She can't bother to ask her dude or dudes to use condoms? She can't bother to use an IUD, Norplant, Depo Provera, Spermicide, Cervical Cap or just monitor her own ovulation so she knows when she's likely to get pregnant? Abortion is an invasive procedure and she could suffer extreme complications or even render herself incapable of carrying a baby due to the scarring from the multiple abortions. This aint the 1940s for god sake. I'm pro-choice when its an informed choice and this chick whoever she is either doesn't have two brain cells to rub together or lives someplace that's never heard of birth control even the natural method that your ancestors probably used.

Excessive and regrettable health risks.

Actually, this idea of multiple abortions brings to light for me a question - is having too many abortions dangerous to the woman's body?

eaglebear4839 said:

see posts #75 and #76 on this thread

eaglebear4839 said:

Of course it is...

It's an unnatural procedure to begin with and so performed once in a lifetime is harmful enough, 4 within a year is really fucking with mother nature. The physiological and psychological factors should be taken into account and the right question is 'can this woman be trusted to make moral judgments on her own or is she morally incompetent to make these decisions'. The bigger fallacy would be that she is actually permitted to have that number of abortions within that time frame. Granted as women it is our right and in regards to her situation this is what comes of being uneducated in sexual relations and prophylactics!

PanthaGirl said:

Whoa.

I don't know about one time being "harmful enough". As Charlotte's first stat pointed out, the damage was in "at least 1%". 1% is incredibly small.

In addition, D&C's are routinely performed to treat all kinds of issues with the uterus like abnormal bleeding (heavy flow!) and polycystic ovary syndrome. It's basically the same procedure. If it were so harmful to perform even once, it wouldn't be such a routine thing.

And who decides that the woman can't "be trusted to make moral judgments on her own"? That's one of the scariest sentences I've ever read here, no joke.

Damn!

CarrieMpls said:

I understand what she is trying to say and there are absolutely times where intervention is needed. I think omitting "moral" from that sentence makes it a statement that we can all agree with, n'est-ce pas?

She needs her ass kicked!

Dayclear said:

Of course!

Violence is always the answer!

JustErin said:

"The physiological and psychological factors should be taken into account and the right question is 'can this woman be trusted to make judgments on her own or is she incompetent to make these decisions'. "

I still don't think that's something I can get on board with. We have no idea the circumstances this (very potentially fictional) woman is in.

CarrieMpls said:

Actually many females are incapable of making rational decisions on their own merit. Take a pregnant child or early teen it's the prime example!. Naivety exists everywhere in any given situation.

The thing is I don't mean to come across as a know it all but to help you understand I've been a qualified natural therapist for 7 years and studied and received diplomas in psychology and behavioural sciences so I know for a fact that comment is justified, the case studies speak for themselves. Shocking yes but it is the truth.

Yah the D & C is necessary for some procedures and abortion or at times a miscarriage yes, same thing really different intentions and other certain procedures such as removal of ovarian cysts are performed via laparoscopy. Either way there is risk involved. A high level of abortions for a female does increase chances of scarring, tearing, perforation, infection, future ectopic pregnancy and miscarriage. Even death. Women have died in this day and age due to retained product of conception due to unsuccessfull abortions and ectopic pregnancies. It was not intended for women to have abortions, so anything is possible with this.

CarrieMpls said:

But I think a statement like that can be very true in general terms. And read it again, her sentence was a question because like you said, we don't no the circumstances. She didn't claim to have specific knowledge of this alleged case. All she was saying was that this is a question that should be asked. The only problem I have with what she said is that this is a moral issue.

JustErin said:

General terms yes. Your right though the 'moral' perhaps should have been omitted.

PanthaGirl said:

I simply don't agree. I find utterly pompous and arrogant to say that "many females are incapable of making rational decisions on their own merit".

CarrieMpls said:

What if she changed "females" to "people"?

JustErin said:

I'd feel the same about it.

CarrieMpls said:

Pompous and arrogant oh please what a jib!

The fact remains some females are incapable of making such decisions. If you have a problem with the case studies evidence then I suggest you contact the university and have it out with them for teaching students actual whole truths.

CarrieMpls said:

OK, that's not it exactly. I'd still find it utterly pompous and arrogant, that would still hold true, but I find it even MORE deplorable to say that specifically about women and specifically in this context.

To say that categorically "many" women are incapable of making rational decisions when it comes to their own health and well-being and medical options especially in the context of this topic is an anti-choice argument, that we women don't know what's good for us, so it's better to have someone who knows better make those decisions for us. It's an incredibly slippery slope, and this all started by someone claiming on a random website that some woman had 4 abortions in a 12 month time period.

PanthaGirl said:

So how do these studies determine that all of these numerous women aren't capable of making rational decisions? Do you have examples to site?

Vendetta1 said:

THEN they're the same men who tell the woman it's their fault and/or problem.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

you gotta be kiddin' me supa! ok...so it's cheaper than the alternative but it's still FUCKED UP! MINE, YOURS and EVERYBODY's TAXES pay for those abortions!

CarrieMpls said:

So basically ur thinking is that ALL women are capable of making decisions relating to such subject matter? Please state ur reasons as to how a child or young teen is 100% capable of this? Or a mentally challenged individual? You need to understand that it was a general comment and that unfortunately some people are in no way capable of rational decisions.

I have a personal case study for you. My sister is 34 years old, she is intellectually disabled and unable to make decisions of this scale on her own. She needs carers, case managers and my mum there to assist her with health and medical situations.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

psh! if she's aware of abortions then she's aware of condoms, pills, tubal ligation...all that shit. I ain't buyin' it supa, unless she's been tied to that bed her whole life then she IS educated about all this common sense stuff, she just chooses abortion as her method.

PanthaGirl said:

And that would be an extenuating circumstance. I'm not disputing that there are mentally challenged adults that aren't cognitive enough to make any decisions. It's when you're saying categorically that MANY women aren't able to make them. If you're talking about people that have a severe enough mental deficiency that they can't make ANY decisions, then yes, I get what you're saying. Adults who are already in some sort of care.

I'd argue a bit on the child one, though, at least in some cases. Depends on the age, education and abilities of the child in question. I'd have made perfectly good and rational decisions for myself at a pretty young age.

CarrieMpls said:

Yah I hear U there. As I was saying I don't specify 'all' women are incapable just that 'many' (considering the world's population) are. I don't like to stereotype peeps by placing them in a category so it was a general comment across the board.

As for a child it depends on the circumstance at hand and of course age and maturity. Every person is an individual and different to the next.

Shorty said:

Stepping out of lurkemode to agree with Shorty....

I'm all for pro choice, but do feel 4 abortions in a 12month period is abusive to the female body and a females emotional health. As long as she was made aware of these risks prior to the abortions (in the UK women are offered councelling before and after an abortion) it's up to her how she chooses to look after herself.
I'd really like to know if it was the same clinic that carried out all these procedures or whether she went to a different clinic each time.