SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

Bart is fantastic transit actually

FBI to Probe Fatal Shooting by New Orleans Police
Tuesday, January 06, 2009By Laura Maggi

The FBI will probe the New Year's Day fatal shooting of a 22-year-old man by New Orleans police, considering whether it could be a civil rights violation, a spokeswoman said Monday. Agents from the local FBI office consulted with the U.S. Department of Justice and U.S. Attorney Jim Letten's office in deciding to open the inquiry, said Special Agent Sheila Thorne, a local FBI spokeswoman.

Relatives of Adolph Grimes III contacted the FBI shortly after he died in the shooting, which New Orleans Police Superintendent Warren Riley described as a "gun battle" involving seven officers. Nine police officers were reassigned after the early morning incident and the Police Department's homicide division is conducting its own investigation. Police have said seven officers fired after Grimes shot at officers. Frank DeSalvo, an attorney representing several officers and the Police Association of New Orleans, said homicide detectives on Monday began collecting statements from the officers.

Eric Hessler, an attorney representing the Fraternal Order of Police and several of the officers, predicted Monday night that evidence will show the shooting was justified. "I'm sure once they look at the facts and circumstances, that they will come to the same conclusion that these officers were justified," Hessler said.

--- Man was shot 14 times ---

In seeking an FBI review, Grimes' relatives decried the shooting, calling Grimes a young father who had never been involved in criminal activity. Grimes graduated from Brother Martin High School in 2004, and relocated to Houston after Hurricane Katrina. Grimes was shot 14 times, 12 times in his lower back and legs, and twice in his front upper torso, according to Orleans Parish Coroner Frank Minyard.

Robert Jenkins, a New Orleans attorney representing the Grimes family, said early aspects of the NOPD investigation raise questions, such as the department's refusal to publicly disclose names of the officers who were reassigned. Jenkins said he also was alarmed that the police crime lab did not begin its examination of the vehicle Grimes was sitting in until Saturday evening, more than two days after the shooting. But DeSalvo said there is nothing inherently suspect about the gap between the shooting and the crime lab's work. Because of both staffing restrictions during the holiday and other deaths, detectives could not secure the necessary search warrant until Saturday, he said, adding that in the intervening period the car was kept in a locked cage.

DeSalvo said that while searching Grimes' car trunk, police discovered a shotgun and extra ammunition, including an extended magazine clip for Grimes' 9 mm handgun. "The speculation should be, 'What was this kid up to?' " Family members have emphasized that Grimes had a permit for his handgun. A spokesman for the Texas Department of Public Safety said permits to carry concealed handguns are not public record in that state.

Jenkins and Grimes' relatives said they have no information about the shotgun found in Grimes' rented Toyota Camry, but Jenkins said he finds it suspicious that police said they discovered it after more than two days.

--- Police weren't in uniform ---

At a news conference Saturday, Riley said Grimes fired the first shot, taking aim at a group of officers who pulled up beside him in the 1700 block of Gov. Nicholls Street. It was about 3 a.m., just a few hours after Grimes had returned to New Orleans to visit relatives. Family members said he was waiting in the car outside his grandmother's house for another relative. The police officers, who had been working undercover so were not in uniform, and who were riding in two unmarked cars, were looking for a suspect in a shooting reported a few blocks away. Experts in police use of deadly force said investigators should look into whether Grimes knew the people jumping out of two vehicles were police.

If individuals approached by police "are armed and concerned -- think they are being robbed -- you don't want them to react from that context," said Peter Scharf, a criminologist with Tulane University's school of public health. Geoffrey Alpert, a University of South Carolina expert on police use of force, said undercover officers have an "extra burden" to identify themselves.

Riley on Saturday wasn't confident that Grimes knew the people approaching him were police officers, saying that will be a factor in the investigation. But DeSalvo was adamant that Grimes was given clear signals that the six men and three women in the unmarked cars were cops. "Almost every person to the man kept yelling, 'Police, police, police,' " DeSalvo said. Officers turned on sets of flashing blue lights, which rest on the dashboards, as their vehicles approached Grimes' car, Hessler said.

The determining factor in whether the shooting will be classified as justified is whether the officers felt in danger for their lives or another person's life, Scharf said. Detectives also must determine whether Grimes posed a threat throughout the incident, Scharf said. It appears Grimes ran around the corner before falling and dying on a sidewalk on North Claiborne Avenue.

Another key factor, Scharf said, will be making sure that each officer independently perceived a threat from Grimes, such as seeing him raise his 9 mm handgun. In some shootings, officers inappropriately fire because they are responding to "social cues" from their colleagues, without verifying the threat, Scharf said.

But Hessler said that once Grimes fired his gun, each officer feared for his or her life. "Why else would they fire their weapon? Just to be part of the party?" he said. "No. They are trained to fire at a recognizable threat."

http://www.nola.com/news/...thispage=1

wildgoldenhoney said:

He had no weapons of any kind.

fuckin' Oakland....

JustErin said:

Battle it out in court, not the streets where the officer has the advantage.

For those who are familiar with Oakland police, this isn't the first time.

There will be a protest on Wednesday at the Fruitvale BART station

bboy87 said:

This wasn't the Oakland police. It only occurred in Oakland.
As obviously the misleading title of the thread is to stain the city.

RenHoek said:

at 3pm. I'm not going because I know it might turn into something else

SUPRMAN said:

No it wasn't. Oakland BART police were the ones who committed the crime

wildgoldenhoney said:

that's incorrect. Imminent danger to life or others. Any cop can say they were in fear for their lives. Police can pull their weapon just about whenever they want. I am NOT anti-cop, but I do believe cops have a bit TOO much power. Just about anyone can become one.

JerseyKRS said:

Saw the video, and there doesn't seem to be any provocation from the 'suspect' either.
Maybe you're right when you say that the cop can say that he was in fear for his life,
whatever it was he saw as a threat.

bboy87 said:

BART is a regional transit organization that runs through over 30 Bay Area cities. So to say it was Oakland BART police is wrong. It was BART police in Oakland. The system spans 5 counties. Local police only assist when request by BART police.

Wait, these guys are just transit cops? And they carry guns????

Wtf? Do mall security guards carry guns too?

Wait, these guys are just transit cops? And they carry guns????

Wtf? Do mall security guards carry guns too?

That is what I was wondering when I was watching the news clip. Why on earth do these ppl need a gun?

JustErin said:

Actually the BART transit system is very large and it runs through some very rough parts of many cities including Oakland and San Francisco. There are often shootings (not police related), gang activity, violence, roberies, etc...at various BART locations.


It is legitimate that they carry guns as they deal with the exact same types of crimes as regular Police around this area.

However, BART needs to be very diligent in their hiring practices and training to make sure situations like this one do not happen.

Sowhat said:

Thanks for explaining it. I understand better about that part.

shanti0608 said:

No problem. Most people not familiar with the BART system don't realize how big it actually is and the problems that occur.

Sowhat said:

It is a sad story.
No matter how you look at it.

JustErin said:

shanti0608 said:

Actually the BART transit system is very large and it runs through some very rough parts of many cities including Oakland and San Francisco. There are often shootings (not police related), gang activity, violence, roberies, etc...at various BART locations.


It is legitimate that they carry guns as they deal with the exact same types of crimes as regular Police around this area. Not only do they patrol the trains and Stations, but the parking and surrounding areas as well. BART Police are as justified as any other police force to carry guns.

However, BART needs to be very diligent in their hiring practices and training to make sure situations like this one do not happen.





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[Edited 1/7/09 8:20am]

Sowhat said:

If their hiring practices and training is not the same as regular cops then they should not have guns and regular cops should be asigned to those areas as well.

JustErin said:

I'm not sure what if/how the hiring and training practices for BART differ from "regular" police agencies. They may not, and unfortunately incidents like this happen with "regular" cops as well.

[ib]BART police are as justified as any police agency to carry guns becuse of the crimes they have to deal with and area they have to patrol.[/b]

But the BART Police and any other Police force must make sure their officers are properly screened, hired and trained so incidents like this don't happen.

Sowhat said:

It is a sad story.
No matter how you look at it.

Sowhat said:

Not if there is a difference in the training/hiring process which you said you're not sure is different or not.

JustErin said:

Actually...there are differences in training/hiring processes between any two police forces.

Again, BART Police are as justified as any other Police force to carry guns. It's not like criminals all of the sudden stop their activities just because they enter BART property like there is some kind of magical line on BART property that stops all crme.

There are shootings on BART property, gang activity on BART property, fights on BART property, rapes in the parking lots on BART property, roberies on BART property, car jackings on BART property, etc....

However, just because a person or agency is justified in carrying a gun, does not mean they are justified in their actions with the gun.







.
[Edited 1/7/09 8:59am]

Sowhat said:

Not if there is a difference in the training/hiring process which you said you're not sure is different or not.

JustErin said:

I am a police officer in the SF Bay area. BART police are required to attend a POST certified police academy just like any other police officer. The only difference is that the BART system is their jurisdiction, their "city" so to speak. They take people to jail just like any other police officer.

My husband used to talk crap about BART PD not being real cops until I showed him a magazine that had a hiring advertizement for them....when he saw their salary, he told me to apply. They are very well paid.