sextonseven said:

Fair enough. It doesn't make people who can fathom it stupid, though.

What about people who commit crimes and are ruled to be 'clinically insane' at the time of the crime?
[Edited 9/19/08 18:26pm]

Today, I am not understanding why people you were "cool" to (for the sake of your circle of friends in junior high and high school) would go out of their way to add your public myspace profile and then just delete you. If it's for the sake of spying, they could've done it without the add. I wish people would just grow up and stop playing these little games.

btw, I only accepted the friends request in the first place because the profile was private and I was damn curious and had seen this profile added to my best friend's page. She got deleted too coincidentally. LOL

2the9s

Moonbeam said:

While I did make light of believing in a Satanic being, I never said people that did were stupid. Why can't people take responsibility for their actions? Why blame said actions, even in part (which is how I interpret the crossover responses in that poll), to some spirit?

People deemed 'clinically insane' when committing a crime are just that: insane. And they should be committed to an institution because their brains aren't working correctly.

NOTE: I didn't read the thread and don't have to so if anyone else said 2the9s then I conquer.

sextonseven said:

You did say, "Then you are smarter than 43% of the people that answered this poll: http://www.usatoday.com/n...dies_N.htm" when I said that I didn't think belief in the devil extinguished all personal accountability.



Belief in the devil is not tantamount to not taking responsibility, at least not for most of the Christians I know. While they may believe (as I do) that Satan is the ultimate source of evil, it is still completely up to the individual to do the right thing by people, and failure to do so is wrong.



Isn't that similar to not taking full accountability for their actions?

Look, I'm well aware that there are some real knobs out there identifying themselves as Christians (such as extremists who bomb abortion clinics, those who try to convert people by scaring them with the threat of inevitable damnation in Hell, the KKK, etc.) Even when it is less insidious, it is annoying. I was surrounded by many Christians who had no world-view whatsoever outside of their comfortable Christian bubbles while in college. And yes, that is unfortunate! I'm sure there are ways in which I'm a total dill myself. But I resent the notion that belief in the devil is limited to those with a lower IQ.

Moonbeam said:

That was in response to your statement: "I think it's "profoundly dumb" to draw that conclusion." I was just following your line of thinking.




Then people answered the poll wrong. They should not have agreed that evil in the world is caused by the devil.




Yes, it's very similar. That's why I question how people can believe the devil is to blame for evil acts when the blame should be squarely on themselves.

sextonseven said:

That was in response to meow85 saying that it was profoundly dumb to believe in the devil. I was saying that it was profoundly dumb to draw the conclusion that those who believed in the devil were abdicating any sense of blame for their actions.



Not necessarily. Many believe that Satan is the ultimate source of evil, but also believe that we should be responsible for our own actions. It's not a black or white, either/or scenario.



But in a court of law, those people aren't treated in the same manner as criminals deemed to be of sound mind, because their actions are attributed to (or at least explained by) an illness. And I don't see many people railing against that.

abigail05 said:

complexed .. I may have that same problem in the future

Moonbeam said:

Ah. I see we are interpreting the poll results differently. You are saying people that agree with the devil question are only acknowledging that he has a hand in evil, while I see it as passing the buck.


That's because those criminals have already admitted they aren't of sound mind and body. Once a person admits they are crazy then I can understand them not believing that they are totally at fault.

sextonseven said:

I see. I agree that it's totally cowardly to run around and say, "the devil made me do it", but I honestly have never really heard anyone say that.

XxAxX said:

although I'm a little skeptical about a blanket statement like "dolphins are friendly fun-loving creatures" and that it is SAFE to swim with them in the wild (my 8 year old niece was given that experience for her birthday this year, and I was a little worried. The boat goes and finds some dolphins, the people get in the water and they swim around with each other. Admittedly, it's probably the same pod over and over again that is totally used to - and probably likes - humans.) I think dolphins are like people, they have different personalities, and there is always gonna be some lunatic or sociopath amongst them (or perhaps not, since they might be shunned by the pod, and then not survive alone ) I think too much

Muse2NOPharaoh said:

sextonseven said:

Me neither.

I think belief in a devil or some evil supernatural force is both childish and dumb. I'm sorry if anyone takes offense to that, but I'm just calling it like I see it. Evil is within us, it's not some spooky boogeyman who annoyed God and got kicked into a firepit as punishment.

Moonbeam said:

What about them? It's chemical imbalance, not some supernatural force.

meow85 said:

I suppose I think it's childish and dumb to like the Backstreet Boys, so I guess we're even then.

Moonbeam said:

Think that all you want. Feel free -many do. But I'm not betting the world's relative morality on those Boys now, am I? Also, they exist as provable tangibles. This boogeyman of yours doesn't. Not only did you just swing an unrelated attack at me, but it's not even one that holds up.

I do not understand atheists.


I mean, look in the mirror : behold the glorious creature that you are.

Go to the Zoo : look at all the colorful animals.

Take a nature walk : see and feel the beauty of it.


There's so much beauty in this world.

G0d said:

I was an atheist before I gave birth. But the whole design of it, and the process were so incredible I changed my mind. Truly awesome

ZombieKitten said:

Yes, exactly.

G0d said:

it's totally not random

I don't understand what G0d means by "LAT" relationships

meow85 said:

What, I'm not allowed to think that the Backstreet Boys are lame? What doesn't hold up about that?

Look- I realize that this is merely a website, and you can't draw too many real conclusions about anyone here. But over the past month, your posts have made you come off to me (and it appears others as well, given the nature of many of the responses) as an arrogant, immature person who disguises closed-minded beliefs in a facade of open-minded views. First Americans have to just grin and bear it as gas prices have risen dramatically. Then scrapbooking is not art. Then people who happen to think a song or an artist is before or after there time are lame. And now apparently those who believe in the devil are childish and profoundly dumb. Maybe this is just your online persona- I don't know. I do know that I used to like your posts here, but you are coming off in an increasingly angry, judgmental, pretentious and holier-than-thou manner. Maybe I am the dumb one because I fell into the trap of responding to these silly posts in the first place.

I don't understand why my kid is so itchy

ZombieKitten said:

you mean nhe is scratching himsewlf, or making you itch?

REDFEATHERS said:

he is complaining of being itchy. I looked at him all over but see nothing, and
I sprayed him all over with calamine lotion

I wonder if he gets itchy when he is hot, since he was also a bit sweaty in his bed

sextonseven said:

I interpreted it as it's probably an amazingly flawed poll if you get response percentages like that.

Moonbeam said:

Christ Almighty, no one told me I had to cater to your views to be thought of as kind and selfless. My humblest apologies for daring have opinions you don't care for.

Americans ARE whining about nothing. Yes, gas prices have risen. But you know what? Not by that much. 40 dollars for a tank of gas is nothing to cry about it. What, exactly, were you paying before that's lead you to believe you're being robbed now? Were you trading hugs for gas? Impromptu haikus in exchange for a fuel-up? The rest of the world has been expected to grin and bend over while American companies ream their asses with fuel prices for years, and now we're supposed to commiserate with you because you have to pay actual money? Sorry, ain't gonna happen.

I am under no obligation to believe scrapbooking is art. I'm sorry you and others got your shorts in a knot about it. I was not aware I was to be expected to curtail my opinions just because someone else might disagree. I don't think it's art, you do. So what? Am I infringing on your rights to glue ribbon to paper because I don't believe it can be called art?

People who think an artist or song is before or after their time aren't lame. They're fucking idiots. Anyone who chooses to write off a piece of music just because it didn't come out when they were 16 years old is denying themself an incredible amount of wonderful, beautiful, amazing music -old and new.

As for the devil? I stated my belief on the matter. Unfortunately, I seem to have missed the memo telling me I'm not allowed to say it. How many times have those who announce themselves Christians on this site called atheists or agnostics the same or worse? Fair play, lady.

And Backstreet Boys? Think they're lame all you want. God knwos you'll have plenty of company in thinking so. I won't stop you, or throw an indignant tantrum because you disagree with my tastes. I try to have the grace to remember the world does not revolve around me or my likes. But the fact that you brought up my liking them in retaliation for my comments about your belief in the boogeyman is just laughable.

Think I'm rude, think I'm arrogant, think I'm angry, if that's what helps you out. It doesn't bother me. Just please, if you don't mind, refrain from demanding everyone bow to your tastes. We all have rights to say what we like and what we do not like.

That is all.

meow85 said:

Many, many, many Americans are losing their jobs and whatever small sense of financial security they had. The price of gas is only one metric of that. I think most Americans understand that they pay less on average for gas than most other places in the world. It doesn't change the fact that the price has risen dramatically (along with the price of food, utilities, etc.), and the economic downturn has been devastating for thousands of people.



Nobody said that you were infringing on anyone's rights. All people seemed to say was that it was arrogant and crass to launch a tirade about the artistic merits of scrapbooking. I mean, what did you expect? A bunch of people to jump on board and belittle scrapbookers?



I'm sure about 99% of people in the 70+ demographic believe that today's music is after their time. So I guess they are "fucking idiots". There is another populace consisting of people to whom music isn't really that important, or that it only really mattered to them in their youth. Are they "fucking idiots" too? Are they missing out? Five years ago, I would have said yes, but with time, I understand that people can choose to fulfill their lives with whatever hobbies they like.



No one said you aren't allowed to say it. In fact, I have no problem at all with you (or anyone else) stating that you are agnostic or atheist or whatever. I don't have a problem with you stating your beliefs about the devil and debating about it, which, for awhile, you were doing. What I called to question was the notion that people who disagree with you on that issue are dumb. I fully understand that there are Christians who take a similar aggressive and belittling approach to those who don't agree with them, and it's just as reprehensible. I also understand that in many circles, such Christians form a majority, which is unfortunate. I just think it's ludicrous to call someone dumb (no matter who's doing the calling) on the basis of one issue, particularly one of faith.



That was just me being immature. I realize that, and I'm sorry for it.



No, meow85, that is exactly what you are portraying with your posts. You have been systematically marginalizing different groups of people who don't share your opinion and/or taste. Americans are whiners, scrapbookers believing their craft are qualitatively pathetic, those who aren't as open to music from different eras are "fucking idiots", and those who believe in the devil are childish and dumb. I'd like to ask where the "grace", as you put it, is in any of that? Congratulations- you've elevated yourself above a great number of people in the process! It isn't the specific opinions themselves as much as it is the way that you've gone about it. You have clung to your opinions without any humility, tact, or especially grace.



All I know about you is your posts on the org, meow. Your online persona as of late has come off in that light to me.



I'd like to ask where I did that, aside from the snide Backstreet Boys remark. I will admit that I get my panties in a bunch over people labelling others as "dumb" for disagreeing with them, but other than that, I haven't told anyone what to believe or not to believe, nor have I ridiculed them for their opinions.



Absolutely! I just wish you had gone about it with the grace that you claim to have. I can tell you're a smart woman with a lot of passion, and many times I agree with you, not that it matters.