superspaceboy said:

3) The Jack character was a bit too over the top gay acting for me and reminded me of a mammy character - sexless comic relief whose identity is a source of ridicule (but it's okay because, like, it's a GAY sitcom, right?).

i find it really weird that several television shows have well-rounded, very real and human characters who are lesbian, but whenever a gay male character is introduced, he always has to be some played-out stereotype. there are plenty of guys in the world with all kinds of personality characteristics who just so happen to be gay - but you wouldn't know that from watching television.

Yes.


Let's just say that I know people that are very similar to Jack, Grace and Will. I haven't run into a Karen yet. I WANT TO THOUGH.

I loved the show.
[Edited 8/7/08 15:19pm]

Will & Grace is horrid IMO. It's nothing but bland, stereotypical characters and weak storylines. Not to mention in the universe of W&G, being gay means really, really, really enjoying musical theatre. Anything to do with sex or relationships or homophobia or culture is neatly wiped aside or ignored.

superspaceboy said:

3) The Jack character was a bit too over the top gay acting for me and reminded me of a mammy character - sexless comic relief whose identity is a source of ridicule (but it's okay because, like, it's a GAY sitcom, right?).

i find it really weird that several television shows have well-rounded, very real and human characters who are lesbian, but whenever a gay male character is introduced, he always has to be some played-out stereotype. there are plenty of guys in the world with all kinds of personality characteristics who just so happen to be gay - but you wouldn't know that from watching television.

NO Will & Grace is not accute.

Will and Grace are mom and dad

jack and karen are the kids

it's a traditional family sitcom change the roles alterated a bti.

the sexuality of both will and jack is so one deminsonal and an afterthought.

ehuffnsd said:

interesting...

SirPsycho said:

it was great for bringing gay people on to tv i guess, but it created a phenomenon where all straight women feel they need a pet gay, and only focused on the affairs of grace.

the 3rd and 4th seasons of Queer as Folk or Bothers and Sisters is light years better.

superspaceboy said:

3) The Jack character was a bit too over the top gay acting for me and reminded me of a mammy character - sexless comic relief whose identity is a source of ridicule (but it's okay because, like, it's a GAY sitcom, right?).

i find it really weird that several television shows have well-rounded, very real and human characters who are lesbian, but whenever a gay male character is introduced, he always has to be some played-out stereotype. there are plenty of guys in the world with all kinds of personality characteristics who just so happen to be gay - but you wouldn't know that from watching television.

Will & Grace is horrid IMO. It's nothing but bland, stereotypical characters and weak storylines. Not to mention in the universe of W&G, being gay means really, really, really enjoying musical theatre. Anything to do with sex or relationships or homophobia or culture is neatly wiped aside or ignored.

meow85 said:

Hmmmmm, maybe cuz it's a situation comedy???

SCNDLS said:

Can you think of any other sitcoms with characters basically performing a modern day minstrel show? Because that's what this is IMO.

Instead of shucking and jiving they're screeching and twinkling.
[Edited 8/8/08 12:28pm]

meow85 said:

Yeah, actually lots, just about anything on the WB with black folks on it. I loved Will & Grace and I don't see all the negativity in it that others do. But that's why there's programming for everybody. If you don't like it, don't watch.

SCNDLS said:

And I didn't. I tried out a few episodes to give it a fair shot. Originally, I was very excited about a show with a title gay character. It'd been a few years since Ellen, and as I recall her show didn't last long after she came out.

I have no idea what's on the WB. I've never had a cable package that includes it. Surely though if the programme you're referring to was big enough I'd ahve heard of it anyways though. I never saw The Sopranos since I don't get HBO, but I know the whole damn story arc, it was so ubiquitous.

meow85 said:

WB isn't a cable channel, but just about every show featuring black characters on network tv is definitely a bit of a minstrel show.

meow85 said:

Yeah, actually lots, just about anything on the WB with black folks on it. I loved Will & Grace and I don't see all the negativity in it that others do. But that's why there's programming for everybody. If you don't like it, don't watch.

Anxiety said:

And here we have the dichotomy. We have one person thinking Will is too straight and another thinking Jack was too gay. (Which, I don't think Will was straight-acting at ALL. )

Let me say - I don't think this was a ground-breaking show furthering gay rights. But it was a fun little sitcom. And it always made me laugh. And having ANY gay characters, let alone title characters, on prime time at that time was a pretty big deal.

And as for having gay male characters that aren't a sterotype, I thought Six Feet Under did that beautifully. And I'm currently re-watching My So-Called Life and the watching the character of Ricky struggle with coming out and not fitting in, while maybe somewhat stereotypical, is handled with warmth and is incredibly poignant. I KNEW that guy in high school. Didn't we all?
I agree, these are exceptions. But they do exist.

SCNDLS said:

i have to agree with meow... at the time the Queer community was just happy to have something postive on tv, but looking back the characters are total one dimensional sterotypes. the straightlaces and totally lacking any love life overworked Will and the flamboyant, sexless and loveless relationships and totally witty jack.

there is no depth to their sexuality and only comes up to be part of some joke.

Does anyone remember Michael Boatman's character on Spin City? What did you think of him?

Does anyone remember Michael Boatman's character on Spin City? What did you think of him?

sextonseven said:

Carter Heywood, in my estimation, was a breakthrough black gay male character. He was comfortable with his blackness (an aspect which a lot of gays -- regardless of race, even black gays -- aren't fully exposed to), masculine yet sensitive, wasn't hypereffeminate or hypermasculine (not saying that's bad, however, if that's the only image you see... you get where I'm going), educated, professional, wasn't a fall guy, could stand on his own two feet and wasn't asexual like Jack or Will and had depth. Carter's lovelife was fully displayed on the show and was an important part of the storyline. Plus, his best friend, and roommate, was a white heterosexual man, he wasn't made to feel special or ghettoized like Jack -- and you could see the dynamic of a gay person interacting with "everyday" straight people and not having gayness come into the picture.

Also Spin City wasn't afraid to deal with homophobia as it relates to the combined issues of race and sexual orientation.

Bottomline, Carter came across as an individual.

...
[Edited 8/9/08 14:19pm]

Mara said:

I never had much chance to watch Spin City when it was on. Thanks for the reminder of this great character.

Yes.


Let's just say that I know people that are very similar to Jack, Grace and Will. I haven't run into a Karen yet. I WANT TO THOUGH.

I loved the show.

MIGUELGOMEZ said:

Honey, refresh my drink while I introduce myself.