independent and unofficial
Prince fan community
Forum jump
Forums > General Discussion > what's your definition of freedom?
« Previous topic  Next topic »
  New topic   Printable     (Log in to 'subscribe' to this topic)
Author

Tweet     Share

Message
Thread started 11/13/02 5:54am

starbuck

avatar

what's your definition of freedom?

Is it being rich and not having 2 work anymore?
Being able 2 do what u want when u want 2?
Not being a number??
Having no1 2 answer 2?

Not having 2 worry about those damn edit?
hammer
[This message was edited Wed Nov 13 5:55:19 PST 2002 by starbuck]
"Time is a train, makes the future the past"
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #1 posted 11/13/02 6:20am

sojourner

Difficult question.
Freedom to go where you want ,to do what you want ,to believe etcetera etcetera. Fill it in.
What is often forgotten is that freedom has also obligations and rules and norms and values (hot topic!).
Individualisation is often mixed with freedom. Example : you cannot do what you want everytime.
In one line i would say: treat another how you want to be treated yourself. (example respect).
Now someone else may come with a more conclusive answer.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #2 posted 11/13/02 6:20am

starbuck

avatar

Person 1 : well mr Starbuck sir, I would say that I'm free 2 do what I want, no scrutinizing, no political number..

Person2 : I hope that I'll be free of my wife!

Person1 : huh, yeah sometimes your wife is a prison of it's own, hard 2 escape as well!

Person2 : Yeah Ford Knox security even isn't that tight lol

Person1 : anyways, I consider freedom 2 be a state of mind, not having 2 worry a lot kinda helps me achieve a sense of freedom..

Person2 : uh you lost me after the state of mind... I feel free whenever I'm out with my pals, drinking a beer or watching a porn smile heh

Person1 : 4 some that's a kind of freedom but it's a limited form ,whenever the actions cease or th time has passed your back 2 your confined prison , in your case your wife...

2 b continued...
"Time is a train, makes the future the past"
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #3 posted 11/13/02 6:22am

starbuck

avatar

sojourner said:

Difficult question.
Freedom to go where you want ,to do what you want ,to believe etcetera etcetera. Fill it in.
What is often forgotten is that freedom has also obligations and rules and norms and values (hot topic!).
Individualisation is often mixed with freedom. Example : you cannot do what you want everytime.
In one line i would say: treat another how you want to be treated yourself. (example respect).
Now someone else may come with a more conclusive answer.


Sojourner I agree , total freedom doesn't exist I believe...
"Time is a train, makes the future the past"
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #4 posted 11/13/02 6:23am

Hedwig

Having more wigs than I can wear.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #5 posted 11/13/02 6:42am

Thecherryloon

There's no such thing.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #6 posted 11/13/02 6:47am

teller

avatar

Freedom from...? The objective political definition is freedom from cooercion. Not freedom from hunger, but freedom to create or trade for food. Not freedom from poverty, but freedom to produce and keep what you earn.

Freedom and property rights go hand in hand. When a crook steals your money, he is using force against you, violating your freedom. And when the government takes 50% of your income away and gives it away to other people, it violates your freedom, too.
Fear is the mind-killer.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #7 posted 11/13/02 6:57am

Cloudbuster

avatar

Thecherryloon said:

There's no such thing.



Agreed. Shame tho'.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #8 posted 11/13/02 7:02am

starbuck

avatar

there's no such thing, but if u escape from a certain feeling that was bugging you or a situation u were stuck in, wouldn't that count as a form of freedom? Or o u look at it as a whole?
"Time is a train, makes the future the past"
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #9 posted 11/13/02 7:06am

SweeTea

avatar

sojourner said:

Difficult question.
Freedom to go where you want ,to do what you want ,to believe etcetera etcetera. Fill it in.
What is often forgotten is that freedom has also obligations and rules and norms and values (hot topic!).
Individualisation is often mixed with freedom. Example : you cannot do what you want everytime.
In one line i would say: treat another how you want to be treated yourself. (example respect).
Now someone else may come with a more conclusive answer.



This is true. In my opinion, when someone is truly free they know the moral and social boundaries of living within a society. This is because they are able to obtain wisdom more freely. Wisdom will tell you the difference between right and wrong, even if no one ever taught you the difference before. And you become conscious of other peoples feelings and opinions. And people become human to you. Not of a particular race, religion, nationality, etc. just human. We all have so much to learn and experience from one another. I'm sure we are missing out alot because of our perceived differences. The only thing that separates us is our unwillingness to be free, and that's a shame and ironic, because who doesn't want to be free? The question is who's willing to obtain their own freedom -- it's a simple matter of being open minded and allowing yourself to make decisions based on your own true needs, wants, thoughts or whatever. Open your mind and the wisdom will follow. Some people will have overnight success and for some it may take a little while, but at least they're making an effort to be free. Everyday I fight to be free. Sometimes it's not easy and I have to catch myself when I see myself slipping. A lot of times I don't even realize I'm slipping until someone brings it to my attention, so I'm still working on maintaining what little freedom I may have today. I try to listen to others opinions, but being a very opinionated person by nature, it gets difficult sometimes. I don't know if I'm completely free, but I would like to be, and that's what I strive for everyday.



.
"Use this tool to control the masses w/guaranteed success: Divide/Conquer =>No Communication cuz we are Divided =>Misunderstanding cuz we don't Communicate =>We can't Agree we only Misunderstand =>Chaos cuz we can't Agree. Chaos-an evil tool indeed!"
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #10 posted 11/13/02 7:54am

FreeChild

avatar

Good question. freedom = not being enslaved to fear.
_______________________________________________
The truth sounds like a memory.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #11 posted 11/13/02 10:26am

blacksatin515

When money doesn't matter
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #12 posted 11/13/02 12:41pm

violett

avatar

Isn't freedom really more of a concept, than it is a reality? Tough question. I am not sure that i can answer it. Let me think more.
heart
vi star
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #13 posted 11/14/02 8:17am

sinaplenty

avatar

teller said:

Freedom from...? The objective political definition is freedom from cooercion. Not freedom from hunger, but freedom to create or trade for food. Not freedom from poverty, but freedom to produce and keep what you earn.

Freedom and property rights go hand in hand. When a crook steals your money, he is using force against you, violating your freedom. And when the government takes 50% of your income away and gives it away to other people, it violates your freedom, too.


The only freedom there is, is being allowed to live the life we want - that is the freedom to be a machine controlled by chemicals rather than other machines. Put that way it doesn't sound too good does it?

But I have to say something about governments violating your freedom. If each of us lived in our own hermetically sealed world, then we wouldn't have to do much to protect our freedom - there would be no-one to violate it.

But when we live together as a population, the situation is very different-our freedoms have to compete. This means that we have to make an effort to maintain the freedoms of the population - there is a trade off between freedoms.

But the main problem is that the playing field is far from level - some people need far more help in maintaining their freedom than others. Teller says that one of the important freedom is just the freedom to produce and keep what you earn. Well that's okay if everyone is in the same situation, with the same access to the means of producing food and money.

But what if I'm the wrong colour, or have the wrong name, or speak the wrong way, or live in the wrong place to produce the minimum requirements to allow me to lead my life as I want (i.e. produce/acquire sustenance and shelter). What do you do about me - console me because of my toguh luck while I die in a gutter, or share with me just enough to enable me to improve my situation, and live my life as I want to.

Of course, by sharing with me you might not be living your life as you want to, but that's where the trade off comes - you trade a bit of ur freedom that I might gain a little of my own.
All those who believe in telekinetics, raise my hand...
----------------------------------------------
So I contradict myself? I am large, I contain multitudes.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #14 posted 11/14/02 9:13am

SweeTea

avatar

teller said:

Freedom from...? The objective political definition is freedom from cooercion. Not freedom from hunger, but freedom to create or trade for food. Not freedom from poverty, but freedom to produce and keep what you earn.

Freedom and property rights go hand in hand. When a crook steals your money, he is using force against you, violating your freedom. And when the government takes 50% of your income away and gives it away to other people, it violates your freedom, too.



teller, you tell them!!!

smile



.
"Use this tool to control the masses w/guaranteed success: Divide/Conquer =>No Communication cuz we are Divided =>Misunderstanding cuz we don't Communicate =>We can't Agree we only Misunderstand =>Chaos cuz we can't Agree. Chaos-an evil tool indeed!"
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #15 posted 11/14/02 9:26am

SweeTea

avatar

sinaplenty said:

teller said:

Freedom from...? The objective political definition is freedom from cooercion. Not freedom from hunger, but freedom to create or trade for food. Not freedom from poverty, but freedom to produce and keep what you earn.

Freedom and property rights go hand in hand. When a crook steals your money, he is using force against you, violating your freedom. And when the government takes 50% of your income away and gives it away to other people, it violates your freedom, too.


The only freedom there is, is being allowed to live the life we want - that is the freedom to be a machine controlled by chemicals rather than other machines. Put that way it doesn't sound too good does it?

But I have to say something about governments violating your freedom. If each of us lived in our own hermetically sealed world, then we wouldn't have to do much to protect our freedom - there would be no-one to violate it.

But when we live together as a population, the situation is very different-our freedoms have to compete. This means that we have to make an effort to maintain the freedoms of the population - there is a trade off between freedoms.

But the main problem is that the playing field is far from level - some people need far more help in maintaining their freedom than others. Teller says that one of the important freedom is just the freedom to produce and keep what you earn. Well that's okay if everyone is in the same situation, with the same access to the means of producing food and money.

But what if I'm the wrong colour, or have the wrong name, or speak the wrong way, or live in the wrong place to produce the minimum requirements to allow me to lead my life as I want (i.e. produce/acquire sustenance and shelter). What do you do about me - console me because of my toguh luck while I die in a gutter, or share with me just enough to enable me to improve my situation, and live my life as I want to.

Of course, by sharing with me you might not be living your life as you want to, but that's where the trade off comes - you trade a bit of ur freedom that I might gain a little of my own.



Well said! Sharing is a good thing. Teamwork would be another, and quite necessary, in order to maintain the freedom of the populice. Communication is a good start down the road to freedom. We may not all agree, but at least we're making an attempt to talk and more importantly, have a will to listen.


smile




.
"Use this tool to control the masses w/guaranteed success: Divide/Conquer =>No Communication cuz we are Divided =>Misunderstanding cuz we don't Communicate =>We can't Agree we only Misunderstand =>Chaos cuz we can't Agree. Chaos-an evil tool indeed!"
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
  New topic   Printable     (Log in to 'subscribe' to this topic)
« Previous topic  Next topic »
Forums > General Discussion > what's your definition of freedom?