For what It's worth, I think Ranestar debated to the best of her ability. We all have our own way of communicating and however incomprehensible a person can seem, if you scratch beneath the surface it is possible to decipher some kind of thought process or the early stages of logic and reasoning. Communication on a message board can be fraught with difficulties, and it is easy to misconstrue a persons words.

From what I gather, she is a christian

teller said:

Tell me about it!

This is a FAR cry from the debates that you and I had or the ones that I had with WellBeyond... this thread is missing a key ingredient... an intelligent person for me to debate with.

Damn, Teller... start another topic and let's do something!

IceNine said:

Hey you never answered my last post on that last good/evil debate...was it starting to get stale? (my feelings won't be hurt if it was)

teller said:

I missed it... I will find the post and get to it...

There can be no debate because that would have required RaneStarr to analytically examine her beliefs...which is not in her best interests.

Coincidentally I had the same discussion last night after someone tried to enlighten me to to the power of god at a party. All you can really do is keep the questions very short, very direct and insist they answer with a yes or no. Otherwise they immediately fall into the circular argument.
"Well I know Snow White exists because I can feel her presence", further evidence is then provided via quotes from several of the seven dwarfs.

2funkE said:

You are pretty much dead on... and your Snow White quote is one of the best examples ever!

IceNine said:

She didn't think so

2funkE said:

Lol! Too Funny.

All Christians should check my lengthy post in The CherryLoon's thread Do you believe in Creation, Jesus, Adam etc to realise that Jesus really DIDN'T die for our sins.

God invented duckies..God rocks!

MrBliss said:

Hey...these are great!!!

...as you can see this thread is toast! THANK GOD (or whoever)!

GOD does exist and he is very much in my life
and I'm proud of it. You did a good job
Rane

Question2002 said:

In what way did she do a good job?

Did she do a good job debating the issue, or did she just do a good job of presenting religious dogma?

This is an important question to me, as she did not even attempt to debate anything and the only way that I can see that she did a good job was in that she stayed true to her dogma and did not listen to anything that was said nor did she challenge herself to think about anything other than the bible.

That is cool in and of itself, but it is not a debate... which this topic was supposed to be.

Do you know the coolest thing about this topic is that when we each die we will know the truth one way or the other.


I personally am a believer but another cool thing is God is pro-choice. Free will, Do U!!!

In what way did she do a good job?

Did she do a good job debating the issue, or did she just do a good job of presenting religious dogma?

This is an important question to me, as she did not even attempt to debate anything and the only way that I can see that she did a good job was in that she stayed true to her dogma and did not listen to anything that was said nor did she challenge herself to think about anything other than the bible.

That is cool in and of itself, but it is not a debate... which this topic was supposed to be.

===

Hi Ice,

Rane did a good job for standing in what she believes
in she didn't give in to the way you wanted to debate.

She did listen to what was said but if you don't believe
in GOD it not going to change anything how
you feel or how she feels.

Good job Rane I feel you and I respect you Ice
too. But GOD does exist look into your heart

Rhondab said:[quote]Do you know the coolest thing about this topic is that when we each die we will know the truth one way or the other.


quote]


[This message was edited Sat Nov 2 17:02:24 PST 2002 by Thecherryloon]

I dunno, it's been kinda fun...

like an argument in the school playground

"I don't care, You smell...because you do!"

mmm, not very constructive.

"I know you are, but what am I? I know you are, but what am I? I know you are, but what am I? I know you are, but what am I? I know you are, but what am I? I know you are, but what am I? I know you are, but what am I? I know you are, but what am I?"

{sips orange juice} LMAO!

My two cents:

RaneStarr said:

And the thing about the money, well that certainly is not dogma, I can testify to that in her defense. Without money you ain's shit around here! This certainly is not the teachings and ways of the man known as Jesus Christ.

I'm a believer in Christ and his teachings, but religion is an abomination.

Regarding atheists, well I will have to point to RaneStarr's comment about chocolate. If you have never attempted to taste it how can you critique it? If you choose to not taste it, that's fine, but don't say one way or another whether it's good or not cause you just don't know. Atheist should say instead "I don't know if there is a God" not "there is no God. Period" That would seem more logical.

SweeTea said:

In Which case discussion is futile...

You call me an agnostic while i call myself an atheist...

by which i mean you do not accept that you can look at the principle idea of your religion and choose not to believe in it...

Sorry mate, but i'm from a christian background and choose not to accept it as a principle...

I guess that makes me very stupid...

RaneStarr...

Ian locked your thread, so I am providing you with a link to it so that you can keep it close to your heart.

http://www.prince.org/msg...&tid=27083

Maybe you can print it out and keep a copy in your bible for inspiration.

IceNine said:

You weren't frustrated, were you?

As I have carefully explained to you before, the following is not debating, but this is what you have to offer:

17:14 And when they were come to the multitude, there came to him a [certain] man, kneeling down to him, and saying,
17:15 Lord, have mercy on my son: for he is a lunatic, and sore vexed: for ofttimes he falleth into the fire, and oft into the water.
17:16 And I brought him to thy disciples, and they could not cure him.
17:17 Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him hither to me.

...etc., etc., etc., blah, blah blah.

I am now officially of the opinion that you are not quite as intelligent as a retarded mongoose with degenerative encephalomyelitis and Alzheimer's disease. In fact, I am certain that inanimate objects such as rocks, wooden blocks and soup bowls would best you on any standard intelligence test. It amazes me that you have figured out how to turn a computer on, much less navigating around the keyboard to form the rudimentary words that you so often misspell.

I would hope that you would get some books, read and learn to think before attempting to be condescending, pompous and arrogant.

Thank you

...
[This message was edited Mon Nov 4 11:08:41 PST 2002 by IceNine]

So, have you guys figured out if God exists or what?

Aerogram said:

Well, apparently there is if you read the bible, otherwise there is no empirical evidence.

:LOL:

I can't believe I read the whole thing.

I just want to say that you both forgot to take one thing into consideration for this "debate". Rane was debating from the standpoint of faith, faith in God, faith that the Bible is the Word of God. From that standpoint she does not feel that she must state other facts, because to her the Bible is the only fact needed. The Bible exists and therefore is not to be questioned, nor is it's existence or reason for being even debatable. To her, that is all the proof necessary. (Not knocking you and your beliefs Rane, because all beliefs are valid and valueable to the individual who believes in them.)

Ice on the other hand is debating from the stand point of no faith. He needs proof. To a non-believer the Bible is not proof because he does not believe in the Bible or in what it states. Therefore using the Bible is not going to work to show the opposite view.

This debate was doomed from the beginning because of the above stated reasons. A different tactic needed to be used by both. For instance Rane, you could have used philosophy, various religions, scientific breakthroughs, and unwavering faith throughout history to back up your beliefs. Ice you could have used the Bible to debate, such as the conflicting elements in the Bible, as well as a King ordering that the Bible be translated for all to read. What is a King's agenda? etc...

Well this had the possibility of being a good debate at least.

DreamLife said:

I would love to ACTUALLY debate things like this with anyone who has the intellectual faculties needed to engage in a meaningful dialog... it appears that this particular debate never got started though.

I would have discussed many things if a debate had started... alas, it wasn't to be.

RaneStarr said:

Rane, here is the problem: You cannot use let's say, medical terminology and EXPECT laymen to know what it means. The same goes for basketball, cooking, music, whatever! You cant use that in an article of debate -- use standard english for fuck's sake!

Secondly, you can NOT argue articles of faith. You can argue Historical facts, customs, religious doctrine, etc, but you can't expect an Atheist to readily see your side of the story when all you do is present a "fairy tale" in their eyes!

Even if you could produce a miracle, before their very eyes, they may not beleive because unfortunately for God, there are so many heretics in the church "healing" for money and desecrating God's name via satellite by taking poor people's money saying its God's will versus actually doing what they are supposed to be doing AND OPERATE ON FAITH -- believing that God will provide, instead of guilting people for money or saying God will not bless you if you don't give! These one of very many blatant manipulations the "church" no matter what form, JW, Catholic whatever can give you. Remember, RELIGION IS MAN MADE.

Why was the bible in Latin for so long? So that the Catholic church could control and manipulate the people with "God".

Why do you believe in what you do? In plain English?

I believe in God because *in my eyes* beyond the great mathematical equation that lays upon the earth's foundation, beyond the solar systems and stars unknown -- *I feel, it is impressed upon me, I BELIEVE* that lifesource as we know it could not have happened without a Creator.

That is my first and inital impulse and belief.

Now, tell us what is your first initial belief, forget about for a second, that Jesus died for your sins, etc...

This is not the CONCEPT of Christianity but it is my first gut reaction to what makes me believe in a God.