RaneStarr said:

I'm sure IceNine did indeed think you would, thus being the reason he started this thread. He knew any debating you'd do would make you look retarded.

I'm an atheist, and I don't hate that fact that you believe in Jesus, or that Jesus loves you, or he forgives you, no matter what a piece of shit a person can be. If that helps you sleep at night, the more power to you.

As a matter of fact, I don't hate Christians at all. I think they're terribly misguided, and weak-minded, but I respect the fact people in the world have opinions that differ from my own.

What repulses me when it comes to Christianity is the fact most all Christians are hypocrites. Go out and sin 6 days, and go to church on Sunday. That'll be okay.

Then, these same people have the nerve to turn around and condemn people who don't believe the same way they do straight to the fiery depths of Hell.

Let us not forget a vast majority of people subscribing to Christianity don't even really understand what they believe. It's just been shoved down their throats by their parents, and their parents before them. Why not believe it? Why think for yourself? Why venture outside of the box?

AzureStar said:

Just like a Jesus-freak.

Please check my last post in the thread started by Thecherryloon titled: Do you believe in Creation, Jesus, Adam and all that stuff, it is relevant to this thread also.

RaneStarr said:

You did not answer any questions with anything even remotely resembling a coherent or lucid argument and you did not further your cause by presenting a cogent description of your position. Presenting dogma is not debating anything.

When you resort to dogma (and in your case, only dogma) to make your points, you are not debating at all. Instead of debate, what you are doing is saying "the bible says this and the bible is always right" and you are missing the entire point of debating the issue.

Can you not see that everything that you have said has been completely arrogant, egotistical, condescending and dogmatic?

Eye want 2 make my final statement because Ice has turned out 2 b no challenge whatsoever! He tells me he has never tried 2 talk 2 God 2 c if he xisted, and then complains how he has never felt God's presence LOL@Ice, ur own arrogance is what is stopping u 4rom knowing if there is a God or NOT. If u would humble urself and AT LEAST TRY 2 investigate by going str8 2 the source (GOD) then and only then would eye have any respect 4 what u r saying or believe. Eye have investigated atheists and other religions, and that is y eye can come here and voice my opinion. When u do the same ICE, we can pick up the conversation where we left off. how can u not like chocolate if u ain't never tried 2 taste it!?








Let me repeat my beliefs that everyone in here is bashing me 4:

A. Humans should not judge other human's 4 their sins (example Christians bashing Gays) Yes eye do believe being Gay is a sin, but eye don't discriminate against them and eye have no right 2 talk because eye am a sinner myself. eye could care less if they go 2 heaven, hell, or with the tooth fairy when they die. (unlike God who does care, and Jesus who died 4 our sins)

B. Ice, u envied me 2 a debate Christians VS atheists and when eye start 2 talk about the bible or something in it u reject it hands down... WHAT A HYPOCRITE u r u want me 2 use a cook book 2 defend Christians? lol... whatever!

C. Eye couldn't care less if u r an atheist, Christian, Jew, Buddhist or a rock worshiper (unlike God who does care and Jesus who died 4 our sins) eye don't want 2 convert anyone one 2 anything. Eye simply will not let bullies tell me that my beliefs r not valid.

D. U here that bash me 4 respecting a man who was honest and fair (whether he is a myth or not), y don't u look within urself and ur beliefs and ask y such negativity towards such a man or those that believe in him like myself? What is wrong with his teachings?

E. eye have never insulted anyone in here, yet all of u can come in here and call me disgusting names and point and laugh, which is ALL GOOD, CAUSE IT ONLY VALIDATES HOW JESUS IS REAL, AND THE DEVIL LIKES 2 DESTROY THOSE WHO BELIEVE IN HIM.

D. Jesus loves us

E. The devil is constantly trying 2 destroy us, and God is constantly trying 2 save us. We have "free will" and chose r own paths.

F. THE WORLD IS RUN BY THE DEVIL

When Jesus was fasting up on a hill over looking the city 4 40 days and 40 nights the Devil knowing he was fasting and weak came 2 him and tried 2 bribe him and said: " If you follow me, I will give u the world" and Jesus refused and rebuked him.

So eye ask all of u, if the Devil could not really give Jesus the world y would he even bother making the proposition? The devil knew Jesus knew the truth about what the devil could provide 4 him or could not. The Devil runs the world and that is y there is so much confusion regarding God, but if u ask God he will take all the confusion away

PROOF:

- the devil has facilitated the creation of endless religions 2 confuse ppl and make Christians look foolish by letting us make a mockery of the word of God and cre8ing a millionandone religions that contradict themselves and facilitating non believers 2 point and say "He's a so called Christian, but that man is the biggest sinner of all! lol" But being Christian has nothing 2 do with being HOLY and PERFECT or having a denomination ... Jesus never spoke of denominations in the Bible, Humans created them! this is y we r always disappointed with "religions" Christianism is based on the fact that humans r sinners and need God 2 help us with our sins.

MORE PROOF:

The devil has cr8ed a world system where everything in the world based on $$$, if u have no money u can't eat, no home, no water, and $$$ separates people by social class and u r belittled if u don't have enuff of it. IF JESUS WAS ON EARTH 2DAY AND HE SAW A STARVING PERSON, U THINK JESUS WOULD SAY "DO U HAVE MONEY IN EXCHANGE 4 THE FOOD GOD HAS PROVIDED ON EARTH? IF NOT GO AWAY, CAN'T FEED U!" of course not, Jesus never denied anyone food or shelter because they had no money or separated ppl by social class

and look at this lovely statistic from www.foodfirst.org: (this is 4 those of u who say that God does not provide 4 his children and blame God 4 the hunger on earth)

Abundance, not scarcity, best describes the world's food supply. Enough wheat, rice and other grains are produced to provide every human being with 3,500 calories a day. That doesn't even count many other commonly eaten foods-vegetables, beans, nuts, root crops, fruits, grass-fed meats, and fish. Enough food is available to provide at least 4.3 pounds of food per person a day worldwide: two and half pounds of grain, beans and nuts, about a pound of fruits and vegetables, and nearly another pound of meat, milk and eggs-enough to make most people fat! The problem is that many people are too poor to buy readily available food. Even most "hungry countries" have enough food for all their people right now. Many are net exporters of food and other agricultural products.


that's all eye have say, u can do what u want w/ it

BattierBeMyDaddy said:

I still cannot believe she is serious at all. If you are, RaneStarr, give reasons, thoughts and ideas of your own and not something that you've read to support your view on this.

Do you consider re-posting your previous piece of stupidity to be debate?

You have still not debated anything and it is maddeningly frustrating trying to get you to understand the concept of DEBATE.

Please tell me that you really do not teach a course in anything because I am going to really fear for sanity of whatever kindergarten children you might be teaching if you really do.

IceNine said:

Agreed!

AzureStar said:

I'm sure she is serious. As one of my previous points stated, she doesn't know any better. She probably never learned at all what she believes, and grew up only with the knowledge "The Bible is always right." Thus, being the reason she has to be "dogmatic" as IceNine put it.

AzureStar said:

so what do u base ur beliefs on? u've never read a book, met an atheist, met a christian, u have walked all ur life with plugs on ur ears that u only release when u cannot b influenced by anyone?

RaneStarr said:

I'm sure she, and all of us have indeed read a book, etc, etc. The entire point behind reading, and meeting, and learning is to develop your own ideas based on fact.

You've yet to show any of your own.

y don't all of u gather 2gether, get a list of questions, and eye will answer all of them in detail, AGAIN. My beliefs r 4rom me analyzing all realms of religions and atheism. & science
[This message was edited Sat Nov 2 13:30:01 PST 2002 by RaneStarr]

RaneStarr said:

AGAIN? You never did it the first time! You've never put ANYTHING in detail.

Here is my absolute favorite part of this whole thread:

RaneStarr so

amusingly said:

RaneStarr, do you realize that nobody will ever be a challenge to you in a debate if you ONLY rely on christian dogma to provide you with information and thought?

Do you understand that the reason that they will not be a challenge for you is because you are NOT engaging in a debate at all and are merely saying that you are right and they are wrong and are not discussing any issues?

Have you ever taken even one single philosophy course or any other course that stresses intellectual devlopment or the production of original ideas or thought?

Are you capable of analytical thinking or critical thinking?

RaneStarr said:

I base my beliefs on what I feel is true to me. I have read books, been an atheist, met and talked with many athiests, met a Christian, etc... I don't allow writings in a book or beliefs of others to guide me. I trust myself first and foremost to know what is true to me and I am confortable with that. I feel that those who go around and force their faith on others aren't comfortable in their own faith.

I do feel that listening to one another, especially those with different views than our own, allows us to grow and we can learn from one another.

Ice, I'm just reading your little debate with Rane, and I wanted to applaud you. It's funny, because even though you are the only one debating, he's still somehow avoiding the questions.

As usual, the valid points are somehow "overlooked", or statements like "I would, but you'd just ignore it anyways" are made.

Anyways, what I wanted to say, was that we have our opinions, others have their opinions, some feel faith is enough, others desire scientific evidence. The fact of the matter is, no matter what anyone says, if someone believes in god solely on faith, there is no way they can be convinced otherwise. If some need scientific evidence, well, they're already on your side anyways. In other words, why bother debating these people to begin with?

In my first ever Philosophy class, our first ever topic was the problem of god. There was a devout Christian in our class. There were believers, non-believers, and agnostics in our class, but all were relatively open minded about the questions posed. This one girl refused to believe anything but her own feelings, and she constantly ranted and raved until my professor's lessons instantly disproved her. After about a week, she stopped talking. A couple more days, she dropped out. There was no way she wanted to hear anything that questioned her. It's not worth debate after debate after argument after argument with these people.

Rather, let's argue the bullshit that we get mad at "believers", that we try to belittle their beliefs, that we don't want to admit "the Truth", and that we are close-minded. That's what really gets me mad about these discussions. J

ust remember, there is most likely no chance that you can convince theists otherwise by posting your arguments, no matter how valid, well thought-out, or legitimate they may be.

Keep up the representin'!

BattierBeMyDaddy said:

ALSO:

Debate is not a series of someone answering questions. Debate requires DISCUSSION.

Oh, I am absolutely certain that you have not studied as you say you have, RaneStarr. Would you like to have a debate on major philosophers and their ideas?

Icenine's right Ranestarr, sadly all you have posted are cryptic statements that could not be understood by anyone except yourself.Not helped by the princebonics either.

what a waste of bandwidth you are.

AzureStar said:

finally we agree on something because so do eye... Like eye said u all make a list of as long or as short as u want and eye will answer in detail

ICE, u cannot tell me how 2 answer my the questions, eye will answer them however eye please, and eye answer my questions very very clearly, and YES U R NOOO challenge 4 me, nothing u say is of any value because all u do is talk about how ur right right right... and let me just add that eye'm the one on this site that is always posting my admiration 4 Bill Maher (an atheist) who eye absolutely adore! he is truly brilliant, and his argument makes total sense, urs however does not! LOL

So we're all agree then, IceNine has the biggest dick.

Er I mean, God doesn't exist beat God exists by two knockouts and a submission. God is hoping for a rematch soon.

eye have 2 teach 2 more classes, brb later

RaneStarr said:

ARGH! You are frustrating, girl! Seriously. lol... somebody stop this!

ian said:

:LOL:

Tell me this, Ian... why would someone even agree to a debate if they didn't have ANY debate skills or even a cogent argument?

Is this incomprensible or what?

RaneStarr said:

Can ANYONE point out even ONE place where I have said that I am right about anything?

I didn't think so.

RaneStarr, you are not the brightest person that I have ever come across.

EDIT: Forgot the (sic) notations

...
[This message was edited Sat Nov 2 13:49:15 PST 2002 by IceNine]

RaneStarr:

Yeah Ice9. Dont till ranstar hough 2 ansir her the kweschions. she kin tack car uf hirsilf.


Sorry I couldn't resist. In the future Rane, it would be really nice if you eliminated your princebonics. They make your posts even harder to make sense of.

Please... for the love of GOD or lack thereof, don't make a list of questions! Please. I am begging you all. Don't do it.





Edit: By the way, RaneStarr... I am sure you are a nice girl, I think we're all just a little frustrated with trying to get you to see that you haven't debated anything. No one here is bashing your views... we're just trying to get you to debate. Anyway... I am done, I can't handle this.


.
[This message was edited Sat Nov 2 13:51:10 PST 2002 by AzureStar]

A repost from earlier in the topic:

Here is my absolute favorite part of this whole thread:

RaneStarr so

amusingly said:

RaneStarr, do you realize that nobody will ever be a challenge to you in a debate if you ONLY rely on christian dogma to provide you with information and thought?

Do you understand that the reason that they will not be a challenge for you is because you are NOT engaging in a debate at all and are merely saying that you are right and they are wrong and are not discussing any issues?

Have you ever taken even one single philosophy course or any other course that stresses intellectual devlopment or the production of original ideas or thought?

Are you capable of analytical thinking or critical thinking?

IceNine said:

Oooh stoppit Ice, you're questioning the very foundation of the Org! I'm ... freaking ... out!

I dunno man, I ask myself similar questions every day on this site...

Seriously though I did once agree to go to a "Bible discussion" meeting - an ex-friend of mine had been suckered into one of those poxy "Church of Christ" cults. I was genuinely curious about what they'd discuss. In the end of course I realised that they weren't interested in discussion, just preaching their own interpretation of God's will, since each of them had their own private hotline to God and could ask him any questions they liked and then inform mortals such as myself. Needless to say I didn't go back

A typical question went like this:

Ian: My wife is Buddhist, I have friends who are Muslim and other religions and they live good lives according to their set of ethics and morality etc. They treat people with respect, take care of their kids and are generally nice people. Just because they don't subscribe to the answers that you claim to have exclusive access to you, are you seriously suggesting they'll burn in hell for all eternity?

Biblenerd: Yeah, that's pretty much. It doesn't matter how good they are, if they don't believe what we believe and live their lives according to Scripture, they will, as you say, burn in the flames of Hell for ever and ever.

Ian: Riiight. I gotta be somewhere else right about now...

Yuck!!! This thread is AWFUL.

teller said:

Not only that... it's painful!