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Printablenamepeace said: MuthaFunka said: Now, the ONLY NBA Finals matchup I wish would have happened was: Hakeem's Rockets vs MJ's Bulls. THAT would have ended a ton of speculation on both sides. Honestly, I think Dream's team would have beaten MJ's squad simply because MJ's Bulls either won it in 5 or 6 games (mainly 6 though), and that was against WEAK centers. I don't see anyone stopping Dream while I do see MJ vs Drex causing MJ to extend himself on the defensive end, IF Drex takes the battle personal unlike he did when they faced in the 92 Finals.
Well, I think it's as least as tight a matchup as the Bulls had in '93, '97 and '98. The only reason I think the Rockets would stand a chance is because the 94-95 team was deep. And they had a young, athletic Robert Horry, whose game kinda reminded me of Pip's. They also had their own guy who could hit open shots, Kenny Smith. They had a feasible answer for the Bulls' personnel, and the Bulls had no answer for Hakeem. I still give the Bulls the edge because of Jordan, but the Rockets might have been their toughest matchup if it had happened. See, I KNEW I wasn't the only one who thought that about Bob! I saw him - at that time - to be the 2nd coming of Pippen: Tall(er), athletic, can shoot the rock, solid D. nWo: bboy87 - Timmy84 - LittleBlueCorvette - MuthaFunka - phunkdaddy - Christopher
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MuthaFunka said: namepeace said: Well, I think it's as least as tight a matchup as the Bulls had in '93, '97 and '98. The only reason I think the Rockets would stand a chance is because the 94-95 team was deep. And they had a young, athletic Robert Horry, whose game kinda reminded me of Pip's. They also had their own guy who could hit open shots, Kenny Smith. They had a feasible answer for the Bulls' personnel, and the Bulls had no answer for Hakeem. I still give the Bulls the edge because of Jordan, but the Rockets might have been their toughest matchup if it had happened. See, I KNEW I wasn't the only one who thought that about Bob! I saw him - at that time - to be the 2nd coming of Pippen: Tall(er), athletic, can shoot the rock, solid D. He was the X-Factor in those title runs for Houston, and he'd be the X-Factor in a virtual series between Houston and Chicago. As great as his resume is, had his knees held up he would have been in HOF-lock territory a while ago. Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016
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namepeace said: MuthaFunka said: See, I KNEW I wasn't the only one who thought that about Bob! I saw him - at that time - to be the 2nd coming of Pippen: Tall(er), athletic, can shoot the rock, solid D. He was the X-Factor in those title runs for Houston, and he'd be the X-Factor in a virtual series between Houston and Chicago. As great as his resume is, had his knees held up he would have been in HOF-lock territory a while ago. Yep. I don't know if you remember this, but they were talking about trading him right before the deadline that 1st title-run season, then he got his ass into gear and went on this tear, especially in the playoffs. So yeah, he WAS the difference for them those 2 titles. nWo: bboy87 - Timmy84 - LittleBlueCorvette - MuthaFunka - phunkdaddy - Christopher
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namepeace said: MuthaFunka said: Now, the ONLY NBA Finals matchup I wish would have happened was: Hakeem's Rockets vs MJ's Bulls. THAT would have ended a ton of speculation on both sides. Honestly, I think Dream's team would have beaten MJ's squad simply because MJ's Bulls either won it in 5 or 6 games (mainly 6 though), and that was against WEAK centers. I don't see anyone stopping Dream while I do see MJ vs Drex causing MJ to extend himself on the defensive end, IF Drex takes the battle personal unlike he did when they faced in the 92 Finals.
Well, I think it's as least as tight a matchup as the Bulls had in '93, '97 and '98. The only reason I think the Rockets would stand a chance is because the 94-95 team was deep. And they had a young, athletic Robert Horry, whose game kinda reminded me of Pip's. They also had their own guy who could hit open shots, Kenny Smith. They had a feasible answer for the Bulls' personnel, and the Bulls had no answer for Hakeem. I still give the Bulls the edge because of Jordan, but the Rockets might have been their toughest matchup if it had happened. The Rockets had a winning record against Jordan's Bulls overall, and I think a .500 record against the Bulls during the Bulls' six title years. Vernon Maxwell was the only player I ever saw frustrate Jordan defensively. I think the Rockets would have beaten them for sure in the '94 Finals. I'd have given thema 50/50 chance in the '95 Finals. | |
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MuthaFunka said: Moonbeam said: Now this was just desperate! 
I never said that you said that Kobe dominated MJ in free throw percentage. I just pointed it out that it was a lame thing to bring up, given how close it is. And I didn't "get all scientific"- I applied a basic statistical procedure. Any statistician would laugh at the notion of Kobe being a superior free throw shooter given how close it is. You are clinging so desperately to that 0.3% advantage, yet you conveniently ignore the statistically significant differences of MJ's higher scoring average, field goal percentage and true shooting percentage. The fact that you consistently are ignoring those numbers illustrates your pro-Kobe bias. And you know what? That's not a bad thing. I doubt anyone can be completely objective when it comes to these things. So if your ability to "keep personal feelings out of the equation" (although that seems suspect) makes you a better person, so be it.  But you brought up "dominate" for no reason. YOU brought up that word. No one else. LOL! And I love how you KEEP bringing up words like "superior". Again, when you learn to stop trying to put all the "extras" on this, then I will take you seriously. Then again, it's hard to take ANYONE seriusly when they feel Kobe was detrimental to Brian Grant and Kwame Brown's career  .
But the FACT remains: Kobe's FT% is HIGHER than MJ's. FACT. YOU'RE the one that's having a hard time understanding numbers. Your hatred for Kobe is making you come up with ridiculous conclusions even when THE NUMBERS DON'T LIE.   You are still hung up on the fact that I brought up the word "dominate"? Why? I never implied you said it!
The difference between the points we have made is this: I never presented by subjective opinions (such as Kobe being detrimental to some of his teammates) as facts, while you are. I can respect anyone's opinion, as long as they aren't putting it on a pedestal by claiming it to be a fact, as you have been doing. What I have claimed to be factual is the statistical evidence I have presented on the issue of the free throw debate. You have only said one correct thing in regard to that issue- the numbers don't lie. But you are trying to use these numbers to PROVE that Kobe IS a better free throw shooter than MJ. You can't confidently do such a thing without statistics, and such an analysis reveals that you really don't have a mathematically sound foot to stand on. Statistics is an important science that has been used for hundreds of years to make legitimate conclusions based on data. What the numbers reveal is that their free throw percentages are too close to draw a conclusion about who is a better free throw shooter. Your consistent refusal to acknowledge the validity of what I have said, coupled with your seeming inability to comment on the other statistically significant comparisons reveals that you aren't as "pro-truth" as you claim to be. You can argue all you want that I "don't know basketball". That's an opinion, and it really doesn't phase me. I've followed the NBA for over 20 years as an avid fan, but I am well aware that there are many, many people out there who have a greater depth of basketball knowledge than I do. Perhaps you are one of them- you wouldn't be the first, and certainly not the last. However, your attitude throughout this glorious thread has been that of someone who believes he is the all-knowing arbiter of basketball knowledge, descended from the heavens to educate the poor masses with your bountiful doses of truth, and I find that to be repugnant. So while you may believe that I don't know hoops, I can assert that I do know numbers. Your refusal to acknowledge any of that aspect of this conversation leads me to the conclusion that you have the mentality of a spoiled kid who always believes he is right, even if all fingers point to the contrary. Feel free to join in the Prince Album Poll 2018! Let'a celebrate his legacy by counting down the most beloved Prince albums, as decided by you! | |
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Moonbeam said: MuthaFunka said: But you brought up "dominate" for no reason. YOU brought up that word. No one else. LOL! And I love how you KEEP bringing up words like "superior". Again, when you learn to stop trying to put all the "extras" on this, then I will take you seriously. Then again, it's hard to take ANYONE seriusly when they feel Kobe was detrimental to Brian Grant and Kwame Brown's career .
But the FACT remains: Kobe's FT% is HIGHER than MJ's. FACT. YOU'RE the one that's having a hard time understanding numbers. Your hatred for Kobe is making you come up with ridiculous conclusions even when THE NUMBERS DON'T LIE. You are still hung up on the fact that I brought up the word "dominate"? Why? I never implied you said it!
The difference between the points we have made is this: I never presented by subjective opinions (such as Kobe being detrimental to some of his teammates) as facts, while you are. I can respect anyone's opinion, as long as they aren't putting it on a pedestal by claiming it to be a fact, as you have been doing. What I have claimed to be factual is the statistical evidence I have presented on the issue of the free throw debate. You have only said one correct thing in regard to that issue- the numbers don't lie. But you are trying to use these numbers to PROVE that Kobe IS a better free throw shooter than MJ. You can't confidently do such a thing without statistics, and such an analysis reveals that you really don't have a mathematically sound foot to stand on. Statistics is an important science that has been used for hundreds of years to make legitimate conclusions based on data. What the numbers reveal is that their free throw percentages are too close to draw a conclusion about who is a better free throw shooter. Your consistent refusal to acknowledge the validity of what I have said, coupled with your seeming inability to comment on the other statistically significant comparisons reveals that you aren't as "pro-truth" as you claim to be. You can argue all you want that I "don't know basketball". That's an opinion, and it really doesn't phase me. I've followed the NBA for over 20 years as an avid fan, but I am well aware that there are many, many people out there who have a greater depth of basketball knowledge than I do. Perhaps you are one of them- you wouldn't be the first, and certainly not the last. However, your attitude throughout this glorious thread has been that of someone who believes he is the all-knowing arbiter of basketball knowledge, descended from the heavens to educate the poor masses with your bountiful doses of truth, and I find that to be repugnant. So while you may believe that I don't know hoops, I can assert that I do know numbers. Your refusal to acknowledge any of that aspect of this conversation leads me to the conclusion that you have the mentality of a spoiled kid who always believes he is right, even if all fingers point to the contrary. You have only said one correct thing in regard to that issue- the numbers don't lie.
Exactly. So why have you been wasting your time trying to dispute evidence that can't EVER lie? . For what? What are you getting out of this? Nevermind, don't answer. Get some rest. We're done here  .nWo: bboy87 - Timmy84 - LittleBlueCorvette - MuthaFunka - phunkdaddy - Christopher
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RodeoSchro said: namepeace said: Well, I think it's as least as tight a matchup as the Bulls had in '93, '97 and '98. The only reason I think the Rockets would stand a chance is because the 94-95 team was deep. And they had a young, athletic Robert Horry, whose game kinda reminded me of Pip's. They also had their own guy who could hit open shots, Kenny Smith. They had a feasible answer for the Bulls' personnel, and the Bulls had no answer for Hakeem. I still give the Bulls the edge because of Jordan, but the Rockets might have been their toughest matchup if it had happened. The Rockets had a winning record against Jordan's Bulls overall, and I think a .500 record against the Bulls during the Bulls' six title years. Vernon Maxwell was the only player I ever saw frustrate Jordan defensively. I think the Rockets would have beaten them for sure in the '94 Finals. I'd have given thema 50/50 chance in the '95 Finals. I'd give them more of a chance in 95 than 94. Mad Max would have gotten suspended either for a game, a few games, or the series as he would have tried to get into it with MJ, and we ALL know you couldn't get into it with MJ without it being a flagrant foul + suspension + plus a 1-year ban !nWo: bboy87 - Timmy84 - LittleBlueCorvette - MuthaFunka - phunkdaddy - Christopher
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MuthaFunka said:[quote] Moonbeam said: You have only said one correct thing in regard to that issue- the numbers don't lie.
Exactly. So why have you been wasting your time trying to dispute evidence that can't EVER lie? . For what? What are you getting out of this? Nevermind, don't answer. Get some rest. We're done here .You're right- the numbers don't lie. You're just using them incorrectly! And you still have yet to comment on what these statistically significant numbers mean: Points per game: MJ: 30.1 Kobe: 25.0 Field goal percentage: MJ: 49.7% Kobe: 45.3% True Shooting Percentage: MJ: 56.9% Kobe: 55.7% I could break your heart further by pointing out that if you add playoff results, MJ's free throw percentage (83.4%) is actually higher than Kobe's (83.3%), but I would never be so asinine as to bring that up as a real edge. Feel free to join in the Prince Album Poll 2018! Let'a celebrate his legacy by counting down the most beloved Prince albums, as decided by you! | |
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RodeoSchro said: The Rockets had a winning record against Jordan's Bulls overall, and I think a .500 record against the Bulls during the Bulls' six title years. Vernon Maxwell was the only player I ever saw frustrate Jordan defensively. I think the Rockets would have beaten them for sure in the '94 Finals. I'd have given thema 50/50 chance in the '95 Finals. All valid points, however, Joe Dumars was the best on-ball defender against Michael Jordan I've ever seen. IMHO, that's a big reason he's in the HOF. Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016
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So much of this reminds me of the schoolyard.
I don't know where some of you came from but you sure settled in quick and developed a 'style'.
Granted, I have to wade through it to get to the few adult responses, but still. 
. [Edited 4/15/08 20:49pm] | |
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stoopidorg [Edited 4/15/08 20:52pm] | |
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RodeoSchro said: namepeace said: Well, I think it's as least as tight a matchup as the Bulls had in '93, '97 and '98. The only reason I think the Rockets would stand a chance is because the 94-95 team was deep. And they had a young, athletic Robert Horry, whose game kinda reminded me of Pip's. They also had their own guy who could hit open shots, Kenny Smith. They had a feasible answer for the Bulls' personnel, and the Bulls had no answer for Hakeem. I still give the Bulls the edge because of Jordan, but the Rockets might have been their toughest matchup if it had happened. The Rockets had a winning record against Jordan's Bulls overall, and I think a .500 record against the Bulls during the Bulls' six title years. Vernon Maxwell was the only player I ever saw frustrate Jordan defensively. I think the Rockets would have beaten them for sure in the '94 Finals. I'd have given thema 50/50 chance in the '95 Finals. Shit, the Rockets wouldn't have beaten the Knicks in '94 if it wasn't for f-cking Pat the Rat. Even now he admits he made a mistake leaving Starks in too long and not going with Ro. Great. That's what Knick fans were screaming at the TV that night, a-hole. I heard Starks played with a hangover and that's why his shot was off. Another a-hole. | |
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foxyflawedhands said: So much of this reminds me of the schoolyard.
I don't know where some of you came from but you sure settled in quick and developed a 'style'.
Granted, I have to wade through it to get to the few adult responses, but still.
. [Edited 4/15/08 20:49pm] Just make sure you know hoops or else your ass WILL get exposed! nWo: bboy87 - Timmy84 - LittleBlueCorvette - MuthaFunka - phunkdaddy - Christopher
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MuthaFunka said: foxyflawedhands said: So much of this reminds me of the schoolyard.
I don't know where some of you came from but you sure settled in quick and developed a 'style'.
Granted, I have to wade through it to get to the few adult responses, but still.
. [Edited 4/15/08 20:49pm] Just make sure you know hoops or else your ass WILL get exposed! I don't worry about that. It's not a contest. You know what you know. I used to follow the NBA up until about '98 or so and only started getting back into it a couple of years ago when they began showing a couple of games a week here. Just don't make claims without the knowledge to back it up, sure, but I'm hardly worried about some prick that can't have an adult conversation without saying 'period' or 'game over' or 'case closed' or some childish nonsense like that as if his opinion were gospel. | |
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foxyflawedhands said: MuthaFunka said: Just make sure you know hoops or else your ass WILL get exposed! I don't worry about that. It's not a contest. You know what you know. I used to follow the NBA up until about '98 or so and only started getting back into it a couple of years ago when they began showing a couple of games a week here. Just don't make claims without the knowledge to back it up, sure, but I'm hardly worried about some prick that can't have an adult conversation without saying 'period' or 'game over' or 'case closed' or some childish nonsense like that as if his opinion were gospel. Ah! So basically you DON'T know shit about hoops. Gotcha! EXPOSED!  nWo: bboy87 - Timmy84 - LittleBlueCorvette - MuthaFunka - phunkdaddy - Christopher
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uPtoWnNY said: RodeoSchro said: The Rockets had a winning record against Jordan's Bulls overall, and I think a .500 record against the Bulls during the Bulls' six title years. Vernon Maxwell was the only player I ever saw frustrate Jordan defensively. I think the Rockets would have beaten them for sure in the '94 Finals. I'd have given thema 50/50 chance in the '95 Finals. Shit, the Rockets wouldn't have beaten the Knicks in '94 if it wasn't for f-cking Pat the Rat. Even now he admits he made a mistake leaving Starks in too long and not going with Ro. Great. That's what Knick fans were screaming at the TV that night, a-hole. I heard Starks played with a hangover and that's why his shot was off. Another a-hole. Naw, the Rockets still woulda betaen them anyway. Hakeem wasn't gonna be denied. nWo: bboy87 - Timmy84 - LittleBlueCorvette - MuthaFunka - phunkdaddy - Christopher
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MuthaFunka said: foxyflawedhands said: I don't worry about that. It's not a contest. You know what you know. I used to follow the NBA up until about '98 or so and only started getting back into it a couple of years ago when they began showing a couple of games a week here. Just don't make claims without the knowledge to back it up, sure, but I'm hardly worried about some prick that can't have an adult conversation without saying 'period' or 'game over' or 'case closed' or some childish nonsense like that as if his opinion were gospel. Ah! So basically you DON'T know shit about hoops. Gotcha! EXPOSED! I'm so glad that taste in music is the only thing we appear to have in common. Congratulations on probably knowing more about basketball than me. | |
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foxyflawedhands said: MuthaFunka said: Ah! So basically you DON'T know shit about hoops. Gotcha! EXPOSED! I'm so glad that taste in music is the only thing we appear to have in common. Congratulations on probably knowing more about basketball than me. Well, I wouldn't be too sure about that one either, Flawed. nWo: bboy87 - Timmy84 - LittleBlueCorvette - MuthaFunka - phunkdaddy - Christopher
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MuthaFunka said: foxyflawedhands said: I'm so glad that taste in music is the only thing we appear to have in common. Congratulations on probably knowing more about basketball than me. Well, I wouldn't be too sure about that one either, Flawed. Unfortunately, 'tis true. It's baffling to me that you're... you, considering the artists you like, but there they are in your profile, even down to Conya Doss, Anthony David and Eric Roberson.
Wow, Hil. St. Soul too. I doubt you're even Dome Records' target audience. They're nice people.
. [Edited 4/15/08 22:50pm] | |
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foxyflawedhands said: MuthaFunka said: Well, I wouldn't be too sure about that one either, Flawed. Unfortunately, 'tis true. It's baffling to me that you're... you, considering the artists you like, but there they are in your profile, even down to Conya Doss, Anthony David and Eric Roberson.
Wow, Hil. St. Soul too. I doubt you're even Dome Records' target audience. They're nice people.
. [Edited 4/15/08 22:50pm] Ok, ANYBODY that's down with Conya, AD, and E-Robe is cool peoples. My bad!  nWo: bboy87 - Timmy84 - LittleBlueCorvette - MuthaFunka - phunkdaddy - Christopher
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MuthaFunka said: foxyflawedhands said: Unfortunately, 'tis true. It's baffling to me that you're... you, considering the artists you like, but there they are in your profile, even down to Conya Doss, Anthony David and Eric Roberson.
Wow, Hil. St. Soul too. I doubt you're even Dome Records' target audience. They're nice people.
. [Edited 4/15/08 22:50pm] Ok, ANYBODY that's down with Conya, AD, and E-Robe is cool peoples. My bad! yea....  | |
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