Now that Russia has gassed it's OWN people will we attack them next?I doubt it,Russia has the ability to fight back. Something Afghanistan and Iraq cannot do.

Ugh.

They were trying to get to the fellows holding the Russians hostage. I don't think they realized they'd kill so many of their own...Or maybe they did. You can't catch all the news you want, abuot it. I think I'll search for the Moscow newspaper online. I read parts of it once, they've got an English translation...



We fucking BETTER not touch Russia. I will defect.
[This message was edited Mon Oct 28 16:43:53 PST 2002 by BattierBeMyDaddy]

BattierBeMyDaddy said:

You ain't got to worry.Russia has too much power for us to attack.Just like North Korea.Although we could win a war with them the price is too high.We attack weaker countries with no defense.So no Battier you will not have to defect

4LOVE said:

I would though.

You know, the American attitude towards other countries in the world sucks 'n stuff.

poor souls...poor lost souls...i tip my cup of vodka to them.

SkletonKee said:

Alex won't touch vodka.

He says it's bad.

BattierBeMyDaddy said:

But... do you think that he would drink Victory Gin?

IceNine said:

No. Alex will not touch alcohol. He says it's bad. All of it, and he won't drink it.

He went off on a big rant about it one day, when I asked him if he liked vodka, a long time ago.

There are many things he won't do.

BattierBeMyDaddy said:

That is good... he should steer clear of alcohol.

And... Victory Gin was supposed to be not very good, but it was the preferred drink of INGSOC party members, so it is very good that Alex would not drink it!

IceNine said:

I would like to know exactly what Victory Gin would taste like, if it did indeed exist.

He steers clear of alcohol, and things that would disappoint God. ^_^

4LOVE said:

You have got to be kidding!

Couldn't you turn this around and say that now that Chechnya has officially sided with terrorism that we should invade Chechnya at Russia's side?

Of course not. That would be stupid.






heh
[This message was edited Mon Oct 28 17:27:29 PST 2002 by 2the9s]

2the9s said:

Agreed

THEATRE TRAGEDY: RUSSIAN SECRET SERVICES WORKED IN CLOSE CONTACT WITH THEIR WESTERN COLLEAGUES

MOSCOW, October 28. /RIA Novosti/ - Russian secret services were working hand-in-hand with Western comrades-in-arms to prepare Saturday's ranger operation rescuing hostages from the terrorist-seized Theatre Centre in Moscow, an informed officer of the Federal Security Service, or FSB, said to RIA Novosti.

Colonel-General Victor Komogorov, FSB Vice-Director in charge of analyses, prognostication and strategic planning, held an emergency conference in Moscow, Friday October 25, with security experts from many countries. As the FSB Public Relations Centre later reported, General Komogorov brought the gathering au courant with Russian anti-terror action.

The conferees were unanimous on anti-terror alliance with the FSB, and offered it whatever necessary aid, say Russian security PR.

The Friday conference brought together thirty or more secret service officers from the USA, Great Britain, Germany, France, Spain, Italy, China, Japan and many other countries, post-Soviet among them.

Russian and US secret services had several crisis consultations, said Alexander Vershbow, US Ambassador to Russia, as he met with newsmen, Saturday. "They were in close contact," he remarked to a RIA Novosti reporter.

"I hope the aid came in handy," added the diplomat.

The operation of Saturday's small hours was a success, considering the huge number of hostages, exceeding 700, said Mr. Vershbow.

An anti-terror expert team came from Britain to stand by Sir Roderick Lyne, its Ambassador to Russia.

Britain's responsibility is extraordinary, and it must do all it can to help rescue British and other Moscow hostages from deadly peril, Jack Straw, Foreign Secretary, said on the suspense-laden last Thursday.

LET'S SEE...
a nameles gas, refusal to name the gas.
over a hundred killed BY THE GAS.
gas used by the military.
AMERICAN LIVES AT STAKE...
???

U never know now days what might happen!

2the9s said:

So you'd drop a bomb on Chechnya too? Man, you gotta have lots in stock...

Paisley said:

Actually whats gonna happen is this: The US will make pressure on Russia in the UN security council when its time to decide if there will be a resolution for a war on Iraq. The US will point out to Russia that they are now formerly part of the victims of world terrorism, so they better support them to kick Saddam's ass...


2the9s: Source of this info: common sense, dude

soulpower said:

Umm, what do you mean "too"? I've said time and time again that I'm against a war on Iraq...

You been reading selectively again? Yeah, that's why your're such a treat to "debate" with dude.

And, no, I would not "drop a bomb on Chechnya."



Although you're probably right about the overall sequence of events from this point on, you once again muddle things with your own simple-minded agenda.

Russia has been making the case that they are fighting terrorists for years now, ever since those apartment building bombings in Moscow, Buinaksk, and Volgodonsk in 1999 that killed over 300 people. Those were the immediate cause of the current campaign in Chechnya.

(And if you want conspiracy theories here -- and I know you do! -- there is still much talk that the FSB was behind these bombings, or at least the failed one in Ryazan)

They don't need us to convince them of this, pressure them in any way, or determine their foreign policy -- and we couldn't if we tried.



There's nothing "common" about your sense. It's uncommonly bad.

How come you didn't criticize Saddam Hussein's comments about the hostage situation? -- where he tried to convince the so-called rebels to free the hostages in Moscow because the legitimate cause of Chechnyan independence (despite the illegitimacy of the "rebels" tactics) was distracting from the true enemy of Pan-Islamicism -- Jews and Americans.

You seem oddly reluctant to criticize such blatant statements of anti-semitism and anti Westernism.

Russia cannot afford to sacrifice it's interest in Iraq at this point. The oligarchs and military establishment have been saying this repeatedly over the last few weeks. That is what is driving their foreign policy!

What's going to happen is that Russia will increase its activities (bombing, killing, ignoring human rights) in Chechnya and in Georgia. And they will still veto action against Iraq as a member of the security council.

At this point Bush has pretty much decided the UN is irrelevant anyway...

The thing I object to most about your conspiracies, soulpower, is that they are for the most part unneccesary. There's enough bad shit going on in the world without all this speculation.

The Knights Templar?? WTF?

2the9s said:

Scheisse, this quoting thing's a fucking mess...

soulpower said:

Link please! I remember saying I would willingly gargle with ecoli, that's it.



I'm not fighting for anything. I just crave a little clarity in these shitty times. Just because I happen to want the same things as some people doesn't mean I agree with their underlying principles. This isn't some clique.

By the way, what's wrong with slinging mud? Ideas don't exist out there in the ether. People express them. Sometimes in the name of absolute truth or fact. I resent that.



I've been trying to for weeks now.



And yet you embraced the term and the spirit behind it, because you come off sounding like some kind of holier than thou insider. I'm glad you always question what you read and what you hear, but these loony theories you float makes it hard for other people to do the same.



Yeah I know, this is a message board so you have to say that, right?

2the9s said

Yes, because your name is over it. Predictions are meaningless (that's Nostradamus territory); anybody can make them. We should stick to assessments and likelihoods. What am supposed to sit here three weeks from now and give you credit for predicting this? What about all those times you've been wrong?



Yes! I started it dammit! With you in mind...



Don't sink to that level soulpower. You're better than that. You know I would never say that out loud.



I don't know, you think I read all of your posts? Just kidding.

soulpower, I was just letting the conversation develop naturally to take in relevant issues. I wasn't attributing that statement to you. These conversation don't necessarily have to be position papers, or role playing games, or worse "debates." Let's throw ideas around and see what happens.



I'm afraid you're probably wrong about that. What's worse is that it's probably a mixture of truth, bullshit, educated guesses, unformed policy decisions, short-sighted guesses, and other human foibles. Even with some dastardly conspiracies thrown in. There, I said it! Are you happy??





Check.



Check.



That'll do.





P.S. I like your avatar. Is that some sort of insignia from a secret organization?










[This message was edited Tue Oct 29 14:35:45 PST 2002 by 2the9s]