I don't get people in America attacking other civilians here then citing "Anti-Amercan Sentiment".

If someone can't stand this country so much, why do they stay here and complain about it?

Move!

There are many different ways of living around the world, pick which one best suits your interests and go there!

They're almost as bad as "I'm Leaving Prince!" posts.

People reap the benefits of a good nation then complain. It's just being ungrateful I tell you. It's ok to complain about your nation, Lord knows I do here, but when you make it your mission in life it starts to look silly.

Because America ALLOWS criticizm. Why would you declare Free speach and then disregard it as non-patriotic babble if it doesnt suit your interest? why complain when people actually take advantage of their constitutional rights? criticizm hasnt destroyed a country yet. so you cant call it "anti-something". actually its a quite patriotic idea.

Tom -

Don't you think this type of thinking removes all personal responsibility to your community and country? Should all African Americans move back to Africa if they do not like it in the US? Can I justify a dinner time broadcast of hardcore pornography on network television by telling people if they don't like it, don't watch?

There are a lot of things very wrong with the US and now, more than ever, we need people to pay attention and get angry about it. Sure we could move, but I like to think that we love our country to much to watch it self destruct.

What if no one voiced their opinion how would African Americans or women should have the right to vote in the early 1900's? What about the civil rights movement in the 1960's that brought about change in voting procedures? Should people have just gone along with the status quo or fought for those rights? Slavery at one time was an American right or policy.
Change in laws didn't just fall out of the sky, from the goodness of someone's heart. Many people's lives were ruined, and many people lost their lives for what we take for granted today.

There are issues today that affect people's lives much the same way, maybe not life or death, but the right to vote isn't really life or death is it.
Depending on the issue, there are certain times in our American history i don't ever want to return to.

BTW, if i was 'in charge', even if we disagreed, i would hope you'd be around to keep me accountable for my actions, and stay on course about what is right or wrong.
[This message was edited Thu Oct 24 12:47:27 PDT 2002 by mrchristian]

No it's definitively not a joke
the best-seller some months ago in France was a stupid book about an american conspiracy in the 11/09 events
even if lots of of things must be criticize about the USA (foreign) policy, it's too easy to blame the USA about everything that self-critics (I think in particular about some africans/ arabs countries/people...)

jnoel said:

Funny you say that. French are known to be very anti-american, arent they?

I suppose we all, and I am talking European countries here, have a love-hate relationship with the USA.

Being a little anti-american is healthy and good

soulpower said:

We have freedom of speech. Which is fantastic. But it also means you have a right to speak your mind, theres no need to go slay people to get your point heard. The violence is unecessary.

2funkE said:

I don't mean to the extreme of sending "African Americans back to Africa" (we're all americans). But, for example, Im gay. If I lived in Montana, and I hated their laws towards gays, rather than gun people down in the town, I would move to South Beach or something and voice my concerns over that area perhaps in the form of an article, artwork, whatever.

Yes theres problems in America, but theres also a tremendous amount of freedom to speak your mind about it as well. America is not that oppressive that individuals need to resort to this kind of violence to be heard.

mrchristian said:

I agree with you. I'm all for change in this country. But what happens when someone hates this country completely? not just a particular policy or aspect?

Tom said:

Those people are usually going to be foreigners. I'd imagine that someone who grew up in America would be unlikely to completely hate their own country. They may hate certain aspects of their government etc and it is right that they endeavour to change things. That's how things improve. In fact, I'd imagine there are very few people who utterly and absolutely all things about America and Americans for no particular reason. There's always reasons, policies, aspects.

The whole attitude of "don't complain! if you don't like it, live somewhere else" is just plain wrong. Complaining about your government isn't anti-American, in fact questioning your government's decisions is an important part of your role as a citizen.

I dunno, this all reminds me of the NPGMC arguments - "don't complain about the lack of new music! if you don't like it, don't join!". well, how about improving things? If you criticise NPGMC, you aren't a "hater" - you just want it to improve. If you criticise America, you aren't necessarily "anti-American", you just want it to improve.

Tom said:

Oh, I totally agree. I am against violence of any kind. If you cant get your point across with wisdom and words, well then you have failed...

soulpower said:

Violence works better than anything, sorry if that hurts any of you pussies feelings.

AwhiteguynamedBill said:

where in history did violence ever bring any solution to anything? only for a limited brain like your's which does not seem capable to solve problems with verbal communication violence is an option. you dont understand, you strike. I feel sorry for your ass.

Tom said:

IMHO, the former is manifesting a symptom of what might be called: "Super-patriotism" - a phenomenon best defined as the tendency to place nationalistic pride and supremacy above every other public consideration and the willingness to follow our "leaders" uncritically.

I think it's time for the Super-patriots to account for their brand of patriotism and explain to us what it's all about.
For instance, what do they mean when they say they "love their country?" What do they mean by country?
Do they love every region and locale in the United States? Obviously very few of us have been to every region and local, nor would all of us find all the regions and locals all that lovable.

Does love-of-country mean loving the American people? Well, again, even the most gregarious among us have met only a relatively small portion of the American people, and I would bet that these Super-patriots don't particularly love whole sectors of the American public, especially the more bigoted Super-patriots who in fact rather dislike to associate with or have any positive identification with certain people because of reasons of ethnicity, religion, race and class.

Do Super-patriots love America for its history and culture? Again, I'm really skeptical of that because it's my impression that they know very little about American history and culture or rather much of it is rather unappreciated by them.
Furthermore, there's a terrible side to our history that's really not all that lovable. For instance,
* the extermination of Native-American nations,
* the enslavement of African people,
* the aggressive wars against Vietnam, Mexico, Central America, the Philippines, and elsewhere.

Nor might we all be that enamored with certain aspects of American culture. Certainly not the mind abuse of prime-time television, commercialism, the corporate greed and corporate crime, the ecological devastation, economic and racial injustice.

Many Super-patriots say they love America because of its FREEDOM; supposedly, we can say what we like... unless, of course, the Super-patriots deem it's "anti-American."

The America that the Super-patriots claim to love is neither a geographical totality, nor is it a vast population, nor is it really history or culture. As far as I can see, their America, when they say they "love America," is an ideological abstraction. It's an emotive symbol that can be embodied in other abstract symbols like the flag. It's almost a love without content. How else can you love a flag? The flag is a piece of rag on a stick. And, if you love that flag and that flag is a symbol of your country, it’s a kind of love that doesn't seem to have a content to it.

Well I am not anti-american but I don't live USA! Go figure this tricky thing? Guess I anti-american living. No joke.