violator said:

That was my whole point. It was YOU who thought I claimed it was the ONLY reason. Read back and show me where I said it's the ONLY reason. You can't. All I was proving is that race was a motivating factor, so I have no idea why you kept this going?

lastdecember said:

Ok, cool. Point taken.

MuthaFunka said:

Way back on page 5:

violator said:

The reason it's been kept going is because, again, you seem to believe that race is the driving factor in this issue. I don't believe it is. I've just been waiting for you to present something tangible to support that idea. I'm perfectly open to anything. With tangible proof or evidence.

"I'm muthafunka, and I understand racism in this country" is not going to be very persuasive for me.

violator said:[quote]

MuthaFunka said:

So you're gonna try and blame ME for YOU making that assumption? You have no one to blame assumine that but yourself, not me. I just simply brought up that racim exists in this country, therefore, it exists in every microcosm of this country. THAT was my point and then I went into the Bonds witch hunt issue.

MuthaFunka said:

I didn't assume anything. In fact, I rarely ever do. I specifically asked you this question:

violator said:

Your response:

muthafunka said:

So if, in fact, I was off-base on assuming that race was the driving factor in your argument, then it seems to me that this would have been the perfect time to state that it wasn't.

You didn't.

violator said:[quote]

MuthaFunka said:

And again, we go in circles simply because you assumed race was the ONLY reason, even though I've stated many times that he has run-ins with the media. Again, these are YOUR issues and assumptions, not mine. You asked me specific questions as to why I said race plays a role - What's the functioning word here? "a" meaning there are other factors.

MuthaFunka said:

At first I thought you were just being duplicitous...

violator said:

...I now understand that you've simply been having trouble following the discussion. And that's fine. It actually explains a lot.

cool...this thread has turned to talking about racing...

roodboi said:

violator said:[quote]

MuthaFunka said:

So why in the hell did you even say this if you think race IS an issue?:



If you AGREED that race plays a role in this, then why even make THAT comment?

Now do you see why I said you kept wavering? So finally - Pick one:

1 - Race played a role in Bonds' witch hunt

2 - Race did NOT play a role in Bonds' witch hunt.

That should be simple enough to break down, right? Then we can finally end this ridiculous back and forth nonsense that you seem so hellbent on going on.

MuthaFunka said:[quote]

violator said:

I never agreed that race played a role in this. I allowed for the possibility that it did. In fact, I specifically said:

violator said:

I don't see where that is so difficult for you to understand. What that statement clearly suggests is that I'm not dismissing the idea of race, but unlike you, I don't believe it is the primary factor in how the media handles Bonds. You, quite obviously, do.

violator said:[quote]

MuthaFunka said:

Right, we got all that, chief. Now, man up. Stop stalling. Pick one:

1 - Race played a role in Bonds' witch hunt.

2 - Race did NOT play a role in Bonds' witch hunt.

What do you feel, think or believe on that? Be definitive in your stance this time. No more stalling.

MuthaFunka said:

I know this crushes you, but you can't paint me into a corner. See the major difference between my argument and yours is that I provide a basis for the position I take.

For someone who prides himself on understanding history, you seem to lack even the fundamental understanding that rarely is any issue (pardon the pun) that black or white.

violator said:

Yeah, I figured you back down once I asked you to man up and take a definitive stance on the race issue. The one thing I can't stand is people who just pop yang and are afraid to take a stand for something, so they just sit there and play the fence because it's "safe" to do so. There are those with no real backbone and are afraid to speak on certain issues because it will rock the boat or show their true colors and make them look bad or show them in a bad light and their "rep" is more important than their own truths, and to that I say - How weak. Good luck.

MuthaFunka said:

Playground semantics don't move me. I don't know you well enough to give a fuck. So you can save it. A cohesive argument is much more impressive. I took a very definitive stance on the race issue. I said it takes a clear backseat to the real reason of why Bonds gets the press treatment he gets. And unlike you, I supported my position with facts instead of supposition and cliche.

I have repeatedly referenced the contentious relationship between Bonds and the media. A relationship that was established well before any allegations of steroid use. As a reason for why he was the subject of scrutiny even before Balco broke, I showed where Bonds had an abnormal physical change as well as an unprecedented spike in his power numbers at an age where previous players have shown decline. And finally, there's the 2003 congressional hearing where Bonds testified to using steroids, albeit "unknowingly".

It's called supporting an argument. Something that, amazingly, for seven pages now you've managed to avoid doing. But because I'm entertained by all this, I'll stick around. And if you manage to ever get around to supporting your case that race is the primary factor in the press' treatment of Bonds, I'll lend a more than willing ear.
[Edited 12/15/07 23:39pm]

MuthaFunka said:

Allright then, I'll just say that all white people are a bunch of evil KKK racists and that they should all DIE! DIE! DIE! KILL THE WHITE PEOPLE!

Just kidding.

Seriously though, people are getting all caught up in the race issue with regard to the steroid investigation when what we really should be looking at is how pervasive the drug culture and personal beauty culture is in this country. There are a lot of people acting very sanctimoniously on the steroid issue, and yet they are all too willing to pop the next pill that will enhance the blood flow to their genitals, or cause them to burn fat without eating right or exercising, or take a patch to get them to stop smoking. We act outraged that our favorite athletes are taking steroids and HGH to improve their stats and hit more home runs and win more games on the mound, yet we accept that our favorite actresses are regularly injecting silicone into their chests, collagen into their lips, sucking fat out of their stomachs or hips, or if older, injecting botox into their faces just so they can land that big movie or TV role and still be working in Hollywood. You have a number of marginal senior vice presidents at major corporations who want to become CEO's, but they are getting bald and fat, and while their qualifications are most likely good enough to promote them to CEO, they get insecure and get hair plugs grafted into their heads. There are whole industries that have been created to make people feel insecure about their bodies, and they have marketed themselves ad nauseam in order to get people to buy into some miracle pill that will make their problem go away. Plus you have pharmaceutical companies who advertise drugs on national television that supposedly only doctors and pharmacists can prescribe. What makes all of this happen is that we as a society buy into these myths and become complicit in spreading them. We wanted to see Mark McGwire and Sammy Sosa hit all of those home runs in 1998, and we wanted Roger Clemens to win 300 games well into his 40s because we wanted to believe that they were superstar athletes; we didn't care how they managed to make themselves that way.

If we are suddenly going to change course as far as steroids are concerned, then we should ban drug companies from running ads on television, and we should boycott any skin flicks that feature women with breast implants. Otherwise, we need to admit that we were complicit in the whole steroid issue.

728huey said:

But no, seriously - This is about how race plays an issue in America in cases of inequality with rush to judgment and the court of public opinion.

In fact, Pettite just admitted to doing roids with some half-ass letter he wrote that really didn't apologize for shit because he used the word "If" when he said "IF I did something wrong..." WTF? There's no IF - You did, bitch! But I've already heard people say they forgive him because he admitted using HGH. Get the fuck outta here.

Perhaps living in the Bay Area, as I do, helps to understand better the relationship, or lack thereof, between Barry Bonds and the media. He is a jackass to the media and to his fans. He's arrogant and rude, indifferent and quite frankly, fuckin' lazy lately. Just retire already, you're done.

Why is it that he gets a "pass" to act like an asshole just because he's black?

gemini13 said:

Is he an asshole to the media? Yep. Is that one of the reasons the media and fans like to go after him? Yep. Was he more than likely on performance-enhancing drugs? Yep. Is that one of the reasons the media and fans go after him? Yep. Is that one of the reasons the media and fans go after him? Yep.

MuthaFunka said:

Here in NYC, Clemens & Pettite are getting the vanilla treatment from sports talkies and most fans. These are the same folks who roasted Bonds(and rightly so. Because Andy Petite's a "nice guy", he gets a pass? Fuck that shit. They're AL cheaters. But I guarantee no one's throwing syringes on the field when Clemens & Pettite take the mound.

uPtoWnNY said:

Wait, don't preach too much to some folk in here, because those same people when asked "Does racism exist?" always say "Yes, racism exists" but never ever seem to say WHEN it exists, and when someone gives an example of racism, those same people say "Stop playing the race card". - Now that's about as fruadulent as it gets, ain't it?

MuthaFunka said:

.....but it doesn't exist. It's just in your mind.

Graycap23 said:

Ahhh, right! Got it! Silly moi!

MuthaFunka said:

Now stop it and accept what is given 2 u.

Graycap23 said:

I's Sowwy, Suh. I's forgots my place. (Shuffles and dances away with a big ass cheesey smile).

MuthaFunka said:

Now git dat der done.....boy.

Graycap23 said:

Bails dat hay, suh? Right away, boss! I loves you, suh. I's hopes we nevuh gets ah freedom.

MuthaFunka said:

Nows GIT.

Graycap23 said:

I's gone, suh.....I's gone (whistles "Dixie" as I skip away)....

MuthaFunka said:

.....and don't 4get 2 fetch me a couple of belly warmers in a fuw hours.
[Edited 12/16/07 11:47am]