MuthaFunka said:

.....I NEVER said that Bonds did not receive death threats. In fact I stated that "While unfortunately there are always going to be some ignorant knuckleheads doing stupid shit like sending death threats...". I know Bonds received death threats. But for the most part, he was treated like a hero by the vast majority.

Hell even McGuire received some death threats too from from some disgruntled Yankee fans who did not want to see Maris' record broken by a non Yankee. But that is not the point.

When I stated that Bonds on the whole was applauded and celebrated I meant that he was receiving standing ovations everywhere he went. They were interrupting NETWORK TV to show his at bats as he was about to break the record. He won another MVP award. The vast majority of fans (Black, White, etc...) supported him, cheered him, were in awe of him.

MuthaFunka said:

No I don't know. Baseball, the players, TV, etc. were (and still are) raking in money hand over fist. They would prefer not to do anything that might rock the boat and jeopardize the cash flow.

If it were not for first the Jose Canseco book, then the BALCO scandal which prompted Congress to get involved in something that was not really their business and threaten to take action, there still would not have been all this controversy, coverage, and talk of asterisks.





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[Edited 12/14/07 7:05am]

MuthaFunka said:

There were many white people that were rooting for Sosa to break the record instead of McGuire because at the time, only McGuire had some suspicion of steroid use. Both were being cheered and rooted for and tons of attention paid to both of them equally at the time.

Also, if your above statement is true, why then was Bonds applauded, celebrated and treated like a king when he was breaking the single season home run record (a white mans record at the time), but he was then booed (after all the evidence about him came out I might add) when he was breaking the all time home run mark (a black mans record)?

So are you telling me all those hundreds of thousand of fans who cheered Bonds when he was breaking a white mans record, now all of the sudden turned on him because he was black when he was breaking a black man's record????? Did all of those hundreds of thousands of fans not realize Bonds was black back in 2001 but then all of the sudden discovered that he was black and start booing him and hating on him in 2007?

They better have more than just this trainer's "statement" linking these players. I want iron clad proof, that's just me.

RodeoSchro said:

Also put LA in that mix since Todd Hundley,Eric Gagne, and Paul Loduca (at an early age) were all in that clubhouse, Todd may also have been using as a Met since it was found that a Clubhouse person with the Mets and Yankees was supplying certain players like Mike Cameron and Mo Vaughan of the mets back in the 90's, though i think Cameron started use in Cincinatti and Mo started in Boston for sure.

Well also alot of players this off-season were either let go or traded since the owners had a feeling their names were coming down. Miguel Tejada was traded about 48 hours before this report came out, Paul Loduca of the Mets wasnt even offered a contract and just signed with Washington (though im guessing if he used it was when he was a dodger) and also Guilermo Mota who went from Clevland to the Mets, and was caught in a test and suspended and now the Mets dealt him away this off season "just in case" he started again.

Scrapluv said:

Exactly! Watch all the excuses for Clemens pour out from everyone now!

lastdecember said:

Add Kevin Brown to the list of Dodgers in the report.

Mo Vaughn (according to the report) didn't start buying HGH until he got injured playing for the Angels in 2001.

MuthaFunka said:

It looks to me like early fan reaction is calling for Clemens' head.

lastdecember said:

The Mets got rid of Mota because he sucked this year. They were willing to give him a chance after the suspension, but without the enhancers, he proved to be crap so he's gone.

sextonseven said:

I've already seen at sports sites where they're giving him a "pass" and questioning the validity of the sources.

MuthaFunka said:

Bishop31 said:

TRUE TRUE!!! Bonds has been on the cross for Bud Selig's mess far too long...but you can see the spinners already calling for patience in Rocket's case...worrying about his reputation being tarnished after literally crucifying Bonds.....

...but I was a bit surprised NOT to see McGuire on the list....

MuthaFunka said:

The fans' responses to articles on espn.com are saying he should have some of his Cy Young awards taken away. It's only the Yankees fans that want to give him a pass.

And the Baseball Tonight commentators on ESPN last night said they weren't surprised because you're not supposed to get better in your late 30s like Rocket did.

sextonseven said:

Nope, not ONLY Yankees fans are saying this. This is being said by even the casual baseball fan.

MuthaFunka said:

Skimming over the last 100 comments on ESPN's blog about Clemens' denial, I'd say the number of posts believing that Rocket took steroids definitely outnumber the ones wanting to give him a pass.

sextonseven said:

I have not heard anything but negative about Clemens so far.

sextonseven said:

Here is a great measurement...

Assuming Bonds and Clemens don't play again, they will both be eligible for the HOF in 5 years. Bonds was the dominant hitter of his generation. Clemens was the dominate pitcher for the same generation. Both had HOF numbers and credentials before they supposedly started juicing. Both have been implicated. Let's see if they both get into the HOF or both get denied, or one goes and the other doesn't.

And don't forget....McGuire was not given a pass, has been shunned, and has been denied the HOF (at least so far).

sextonseven said:

Uh, ESPN isn't the ONLY sports site out there, bro.

MuthaFunka said:

It's the biggest one.

sextonseven said:

Uh. Ok. What's the point of saying that? Does it mean all other sports site don't matter or count?

MuthaFunka said:

I'm saying it will have a good representation of what sports fans think nationally.

Sowhat said:

The thing is that the Hall is voted by the writers not the players, and the writers already are all sticking together calling them all "cheaters" and everything they did is not valid since you cant pin point when they did it. I think you can pretty much guarantee that Clemens and Bonds will not see the Hall of Fame unless the go visit it, others never going in include Mgwire and also Palmiero who will be yet another 500 Hr guy not going in. The funny thing is that Pete Rose will always be looked on as a "gambler and a cheat" but nothing he did effected him hitting the ball, with everyone on this list it helped them hit the ball further, play longer and most of all, make alot of money because of these acheivements that came while using. The last few days i was watching this 3 volume retrospective called "when it was a game" if you love baseball you should watch it, and this is not to just single out baseball, because all sports share this and all have this going on. In this age of endorsement deals and media stuff that players do off the fields all sports have become a different way of life. An interesting fact to know back in 1966 the BASE salary for a baseball player was $6,000, twenty years later in 1986 it had only risen to 16,000, but now in 2007 20 years later it stands at close to 350,000 thats quite a change in the last 20 years.

sextonseven said:

Clemens wont get a pass on this, just pick up the paper here in NYC and his face is plastered everywhere with Andy Pettite labeled "Cheaters" and every sports writer i have heard is already saying anyone on this list would never get their vote regardless of proof.

sextonseven said:

Not necessarily. There are thousands of sports blogs that you're not taking into consideration. There are also better and more informed fans on other sports sites than ESPN message boards, so ESPN isn't the end all resource for sports.

lastdecember said:

It may not be in the form of a "pass" but I'm hearing sportswriters and analysts question the validity of the report and that a lot of sportspeople are willing to give an asterisk for the entire era but before that, a lot of them just wanted Bonds to have the asterisk. So in a way, he is getting a pass.

MuthaFunka said:

Of course I'm not taking thousands of sports blogs into consideration. That would take months. I'm saying if you want a quick sample of what people think about the subject, why not go to ESPN first?

sextonseven said:

It's the logical start but the true sports aficionado hits up other sites besides ESPN that has been affectionately called BSPN and ESPIN because of how they present a lot of their sports.

MuthaFunka said:

That is a good point considering that Baseball Tonight analyst Fernando Viña is in Mitchell's report, but I was reading the uncensored comments written by fans on the site.

sextonseven said:

Exactly. One thing's for sure, this hellstorm won't blow over anytime soon. Expect this to be talked about up until next year's world series.