Sowhat said:

I really hope they don't have such a massive problem as much as the MLB. If so they better take this as a warning.

Bishop31 said:

I hope the NFL isn't as bad as MLB but Bill Romanowski was outed in the Balco scandal and Lyle Alzado died severeal years ago from a rare form of a brain tumor that is known to be caused by steroids.

Plus talking to an ex football player I know and a recently retired one, the NFL has it's problems too.

Unfortunately I think if there was an intensive almost two year investigation like this one in the NFL, you would see the same problem. I would like to hope I am wrong, but I don't think so.







.
[Edited 12/13/07 13:33pm]

Sowhat said:

No, everything wasn't good - at least not for baseball, because there had been rumblings of roids with McGuire when he was rollin' to the coveted 60 HRs but they hushed it because he was beating out Sosa at the time. Did Big Mac's race have anything to do with that? Hell yes. Had he been black then he would have gotten the Bonds treatment. Baseball knew there was roids when Mac and sammy were going at it, but because Mac won, they didn't give a shit.

And who said it was a "few people juicing"? Those are the ones that have evidence, this doesn't count the ones that haven't been named or caught.

Sowhat said:

Perhaps they could start with the 'Cheat-triots'...oh I mean the Patriots.

MuthaFunka said:

Then why didn't Bonds get "the Bonds treatment" back in 2001 when HE was breaking the single season home run record????

And are you saying that if Sammy had beaten out Mac, then baseball would have cared about roids at that time????

Bishop31 said:

.... !!!

Bishop31 said:

Actually, Rodney Harrison was busted earlier this year for confessing to using HGH and was suspended for four games.

MuthaFunka said:

I was refering to it now being called the "roids era" since so many have now been outed in the Mitchell Report. Before there was, but only a few caught.

If it is only a few, then it is not an "... Era". If it is many or most, then it is an "... Era".


For example....Pete Rose was caught gambling on Baseball...so was that the "gambling Era" in baseball??? No. But if it then became know that it was more widespread, involved dozens of players and literally all the teams...then yes.





.
[Edited 12/13/07 13:46pm]

728huey said:

Oh yeah, I forgot about him....nice catch!

Sowhat said:

Please! There were already people sending him death threats for breaking Mac's record. Bonds even said that. There were also people who started bringing up his change in physical appearance around then, too.

Had Sammy beat out Mac for the HR title, the "leaks" about what these guys were on would have come out a lot faster than they did. Hey, I know it's hard to imagine racism exists in this world ( ) but it does exists in every microcosm of life - even in baseball.

Sowhat said:

If the best players who defined the era were proven to have been juiced, then it would be appopriate to deem it the "Steroid Era".

MuthaFunka said:

Bonds did NOT get the "Bonds treatment" you speak of in 2001. There were wispers about Barry juicing and his body changing just like with McGuire two years before. But in both cases they were just whispers and in general were ignored, in BOTH cases.

While unfortunately there are always going to be some ignorant knuckleheads doing stupid shit like sending death threats, Bonds on the whole was applauded, celebrated and idolized by the vast majority during 2001.

And what broke the juicing scandal in MLB was a combination of Jose Canseco's book and the Balco scandal breaking. So no, the leaks would not have come out any sooner if Sammy would have broke the record.








.
[Edited 12/13/07 14:20pm]

MuthaFunka said:

You just proved my point again. So many of the best players now have been outed, now it is the "steroid Era". Before it was only Bonds. Now it is Bonds, and Clement, and Tejada, and Pettite, etc.....and by the way, many have already been calling it the "Seroid Era" long before the Mitchell report was released and Clements was even mentioned.

THIS LIST IS BOGUS. I AM LOOKING FOR THE ACCURATE LIST

THIS LIST IS BOGUS. I AM LOOKING FOR THE ACCURATE LIST

THIS LIST IS BOGUS. I AM LOOKING FOR THE ACCURATE LIST

THIS LIST IS BOGUS. I AM LOOKING FOR THE ACCURATE LIST

THIS LIST IS BOGUS. I AM LOOKING FOR THE ACCURATE LIST

LittleBLUECorvette said:

MuthaFunka said:

Where did I ever say racism does or does not exist, in Baseball or anywhere else????

HERE IS THE ACCURATE LIST - ALBERT PUJOLS AND JEFF BAGWELL ARE NOT ON IT

HERE IS THE ACCURATE LIST - ALBERT PUJOLS AND JEFF BAGWELL ARE NOT ON IT

HERE IS THE ACCURATE LIST - ALBERT PUJOLS AND JEFF BAGWELL ARE NOT ON IT

HERE IS THE ACCURATE LIST - ALBERT PUJOLS AND JEFF BAGWELL ARE NOT ON IT

http://sports.espn.go.com...id=3153646

According to the Mitchell Commission report, here are players mentioned and how they are linked to performance enhancing substances:

Information Learned During this Investigation Concerning BALCO and Major League Baseball (8 players/ 3 active in MLB in 2007)
From the report: "I requested interviews of all the major league players who had been publicly implicated in the BALCO case."


Name
In Report

Marvin Benard
Page 127

Barry Bonds
Page 128

Bobby Estalella
Page 130

Jason Giambi
Page 131

Jeremy Giambi
Page 133

Benito Santiago
Page 134

Gary Sheffield
Page 135

Randy Velarde
Page 137

Information Regarding Purchases or Use of Performance Enhancing Substances by Players in Major League Baseball (53 players/ 18 active in MLB in 2007)
From the report: "The following discussion is organized in roughly chronological order. Records do not exist to document every transaction described by witnesses. [Kirk] Radomski stated that, with one exception noted below, the payments he received from professional baseball players were for performance enhancing substances, as opposed to personal training or other services, and this assertion was confirmed by those players who agreed to speak with us about their dealings with him.""


Name Where in report
Lenny Dykstra
Page 149

David Segui
Page 150

Larry Bigbie
Page 152

Brian Roberts
Page 158

Jack Cust
Page 159

Tim Laker
Page 159

Josias Manzanillo
Page 161

Todd Hundley
Page 163

Mark Carreon
Page 163

Hal Morris
Page 164

Matt Franco
Page 165

Rondell White
Page 165

Roger Clemens
Page 166

Andy Pettitte
Page 175

Chuck Knobloch
Page 175

Jason Grimsley
Page 177, 249

Gregg Zaun
Page 179

David Justice
Page 181

F.P. Santangelo
Page 182

Glenallen Hill
Page 183

Mo Vaughn
Page 186

Denny Neagle
Page 187

Ron Villone
Page 188

Ryan Franklin
Page 190

Chris Donnels
Page 190

Todd Williams
Page 194

Phil Hiatt
Page 194

Todd Pratt
Page 195

Kevin Young
Page 195

Mike Lansing
Page 196

Cody McKay
Page 197

Kent Mercker
Page 198

Adam Piatt
Page 199

Miguel Tejada
Page 201

Jason Christiansen
Page 205

Mike Stanton
Page 205

Stephen Randolph
Page 206

Jerry Hairston, Jr.
Page 207

Paul LoDuca
Page 208

Adam Riggs
Page 211

Bart Miadich
Page 212

Fernando Vina
Page 213

Kevin Brown
Page 214

Eric Gagne
Page 217

Mike Bell
Page 219

Matt Herges
Page 221

Gary Bennett, Jr.
Page 222

Jim Parque
Page 223

Brendan Donnelly
Page 224

Chad Allen
Page 225

Jeff Williams
Page 227

Howie Clark
Page 228

Nook Logan
Page 229

Alleged Internet Purchases of Performance Enhancing Substances By Players in Major League Baseball (16 players, 8 active in MLB in 2007)
From the report: "Since the initial news reports of the raid by New York and Florida law enforcement officials on Signature Pharmacy and several rejuvenation centers, the names of several current and former major league players have appeared in the media as alleged purchasers of performance enhancing substances through these operations. These include:"


Name Where in report
Rick Ankiel
Page 243

David Bell
Page 244

Paul Byrd
Page 245

Jose Canseco
Page 246

Jay Gibbons
Page 247

Troy Glaus
Page 248

Jose Guillen
Page 249

Jerry Hairston, Jr.
Page 251

Darren Holmes
Page 251

Gary Matthews, Jr.
Page 252

John Rocker
Page 254

Scott Schoenweis
Page 254

Ismael Valdez
Page 255

Matt Williams
Page 255

Steve Woodard
Page 257

Information Provided by a Former Major League Player
Name Where in report
Dan Naulty
Page 232

RodeoSchro said:

With the exception of Sheffield, all of the players on this part of the list played for either the Oakland A's or SF Giants

Sowhat said:

Pretty much everyone else on the lists played with the Yankees or the Mets, or knew players on those teams.

The reason the lists are so heavily New York-skewed is that the New York clubhouse boys were the only ones that talked. I imagine the other 30 MLB teams have/had their fair share of steroid users.

RodeoSchro said:

I agree...If you look at the sources for the Mitchell report, there really are only three...BALCO, Kirk Radomski and Signature Pharmacy in Florida.

If a player was not affiliated with any of those three, they were not on the list.

Bud Selig says he'll consider penalties for players named on a case by case basis.

Sowhat said:

Dude, what are you talking about? The man said HIMSELF that he was receiving threats and being shunned not to break Big Mac's record. He said it on an interview with ESPN. I think I'll go by THAT rather than some cat on the net saying he didn't.

And you keep on right along thinking that the leak wouldn't have come out if Sosa was the one that broke the white man's record.
[Edited 12/13/07 15:39pm]

Sowhat said:

Ok, just making sure, because your original post on this was all jumbled up.

And yes, they started to call it the roid era but now it's gonna be truly agreed upon by more than just a few analysts and sportscasters.

Sowhat said:

So then you should know that had Sosa been the one to break the HR single season record, the leak and rumors would have been a lot louder and frequent than when Mac broke it.

Fuck Baseball,..I've been so done with this sport years ago.
Manufactured heroes and world series every since Bud Selig and Fay Vincent were the Commissioners of MLB. Oh and fuck Peter and Bart too!

What's that word when you need the boost "Juice, Juice".

First of all if you think that BASEBALL is the only sport that is using you are smoking, every sport from Football to freaking Tennis is full of enhancing drugs, the only reason Baseball is getting grilled is mainly for its govt ties and the fact that it testified in front of the supreme court, if the other sports had this, you would see half of the players from all sports on the list. But the big question is what will baseball do? Do you put a "roger maris" type star next to all the records in the last 10-15 years? I mean since none of the players were caught using, theres no case except word against word. So what will happen, will they produce "facts" like the ones they had on Pete Rose during the gambling trials where his handwriting was on betting sheets and then they took a testimony of a borderline criminal against pete? The thing is now the players union is so strong they will not allow the players to succumb to testing that will actually catch you in the act which is "blood" testing, that is already been said to be a NO GO with the players union. Well until that test is a mandatory thing then no one really is ever going to know. You cant say when a player used or didnt use or for how long since none of this testing was implemented. And also lets not just blame the players union, the owners had knowledge of this long ago, and now with this report im hearing that owners are saying "yeah we suspected such and such but going do anything because of the union" so now it becomes the blame game. All i can say is that looking at that list i can link players to players and where things might have happend, example Paul Loduca, Todd Hundley and Eric Gagne all played at the same time with the dodgers, then there is the incident last year when an ex-met clubhouse person who worked there in the early-mid 90's was busted for dealing steroids that would explain Mike Cameron,Mo vaughan,Todd Pratt and Matt Franco all Mets during that period, so the links are there, but the problem is the proof really isnt, no one got caught, its word against word. And last but not least lets remember what STEROIDS do, for the most part they are used to save careers and get guys back early from injuries, basically they give you strength. But as Gary Carter said way back in 1987 when there was talk of players "corking" bats, he said all the corked bat will do is make it go further, if you cant hit it doesnt make you HIT all of a sudden, and thats what steroids do, make things go further and last longer. So is it a sad day for me being a HUGE baseball fan and growing up a Dave Kingman and New York Mets fan, sure it is, but no sadder than when i watch a Tennis match a see a male or female player serve a ball at 145mph and remember the days when no one could even serve 100, and hearing a commentator say, yeah thats because of better equipment now, yeah OK.

lastdecember said:

I know damn well this ain't meant for me, and baseball still sucks!

StarMon said:

Just stating the facts for everyone. All the sports do it, if people can look at a Football Player and say they aint doing something, wow, theres a bigger issue, they all do it, every sport's got them, im tired of hearing, "well they train better than they used to" bullshit, they are all putting some sort of chemical inside of them, whether its something "legal" over the counter or illegal its all the same end result.

Sowhat said:

No youre exactly right, which is what im saying, if you dug deep enough, you would find this in every sport, and in my opinion the NFL is probably the biggest issue of them all, but that sport has enough issues already with just the conduct of alot of its players off the field to even get into the whole steroid thing, if that was opened there would be about 12 guys left in the league.

DarkKnight1 said:

EXACTLY

I love it! Everyone wanted to vilify Bonds, now all of baseball & cooperstown is getting an asterisk