Alright, here it is. The chronology of 9/11. I have collected these facts (!) from different sources, and I have varified the sources of the information as good as I could. There is no reason to think it might be less credible than the information spread by the US government. I will not comment the info, its up to you to think and make up your mind. Only this: The info suggests that yes, Bush knew, something which I wasnt so sure about before because of a lack of proof. Read this carefully, let it sink in... I dont expect a yippy-yeah of agreement. If you want to criticize or share a differnt thought, feel free to do so but stay close to the topic, refer to the information.
I believe that this information paints a pretty clear picture on the motives of 9/11 and who is behind it. But then again, thats your own interpretation.

1991-1997
Big US oil industries like Exxon Mobil, Texaco, Unocal, BP Amoco and Shell are investing 3 Billion dollars to bribe the government of Kasachstan in order to secure their rights to get their hands on the oil reserves of that region. The oil companies are promising to invest 35 Billion dollars into the region. However, there is one major problem: The pipelines needed are in the hands of Moscow which is demaning exorbitant prices for their use.

December 4th, 1997
Representatives of the Taliban are guests at the texan headquarters of Unocal in order to discuss the planned pipeline through Afghanistan. However, the negotiations fail because the Taliban are demanding too much money.

February 12th, 1998
John J. Maresca, vice president of Unocal and later the special representative in Afghanistan, is stating in the house of representatives, that without a US-friendly government in Afghanistan, the pipeline will never be build.

April 1998
The CIA ignores warnings by its own expert Robert Baer (according to the NY Times one of the best agents of the CIA in the middle east) that Saudi Arabia is hosting Al Quaida members. The CIA is offered a complete list of names by the Saudi Arabian secret service, but turns down this offer.

January 2001
The new government of George W Bush orders FBI and other secret services to reduce all investigations regarding the Bin Laden family. This also counts for two relatives of Osama (Abdullah and Omar) who were living in Falls Church, Virginia, very close to the CIA headquarters.

February 12th 2001
In a story about a trial against possible Al Quaida members the UPI-correspondent for terrorism reveals that the NSA has been scanning Bin Ladens communication system.
Later the government claims, Bin Laden had planned the attack already years ago. So why didnt they know?

May 2001
Colin Powell is transferring 43 million dollars to the Taliban regime as a compensation for the loss of income of poor farmers for the destruction of their opium plants by the Taliban.

June 2001
The german secret service BND warns the CIA and Israel that terrorists from the middle east might "hijack planes and use them as a tool of destruction in order to attack important symbols of the american and israelian culture", as reportet on September 14th by the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, a newspaper from Frankfurt, Germany.

Summer 2001
Three US-negotiators - Tom Simons (former US diplomat in Pakistan), Karl Iderfurth (former secretary of state for southern asia) and Lee Coldren (former head of the department and asia expert of the state department) - meet between May and August with pakistanian and russian secret service agents. In Berlin they came together for one last meeting under the control of the United Nations in order to look for a solution in the pipeline-question. Representatives of the Taliban were present at those meetings, but they refused a share of US profits because they considered it as too small. At the final meeting in Berlin US representatives announced military action against Afghanistan for October (!)

Sommer 2001
According to a report of the british "Guardian" US Ranger special forces are training in Tadchikistan.

Sommer 2001
On October 26th the "Times of India" publishes the first true indication to the connections of "terror-pilot" Mohammed Atta. According to this article in July 2001 pakistanian secret service head General Mahmud Ahmed wired 100 000 Dollars to Mohammed Atta. The money was transfered by Omar Sheikh, an ISI-agent and radical islamist of british heritage, who later was accused of murdering US-journalist Daniel Pearl. After this article is published, General Ahmed resigns from his office as ISI-director.

June 26th, 2001
The internet magazin "Indiareacts.com" reports that "India and Iran strongly supports the USA and Russia in military actions against the Taliban regime".

July 4th- 14th, 2001
Osama bin Laden is being treated at the American Hospital in Dubai, Saudi Arabia, because of his kidney disfunction. He is being visited by functionaries of Saudi Arabia and CIA-associate Larry Mitchell.

July 10th, 2001
An FBI-report from Phoenix, Az - and another one from Minneapolis - suggests, that members of Al Quaida are using US flight schools in order to practice their flying skills. The agents from Minneapolis are reporting about the arrest of Zacharias Moussaoui, a french citizen of morroccan descent, who wanted to learn to fly a Boeing 747, but who has showed no interest in starting and landing. The agents discribed him as somebody, who could "plan to crash a Jumbo Jet into the World Trade Center". Both reports are ignored by the FBI headquarters.

August 6th, 2001
President Bush is being informed in a CIA-briefing about the possibility that terrorists connected with Osama bin Laden could use airplanes as flying bombs. However, the flight surveilance is not being alarmed.

August 12th, 2001
US Navy-Lieutenant Delmart Vreeland, in jail in Toronto, claims to be an officer of the secret service and to be informed about the upcoming attacks. Because nobody is paying him attention he writes down his informations and passes it to a guard.

August 20th, 2001
Russian president Putin orders his secret service to warn the US services about an attack of governmental institutions. The russian newspaper "Istvestia" writes about possible attacks with 25 suicide pilots.

August 20th - September 10th, 2001
The Dow Jones Index at Wall Street is falling about 900 points in the 3 weeks prior to the attacks. The threat of a stock market crash is present.

September 1st - 10th, 2001
Operation "Swift Sword" begins: 23 000 british soldiers are being moved to Oman. At the same time two large battle units arrive in Pakistan, and 17 000 US troops are uniting with 23 000 Nato troops, who have arrived in Egypt for the operation "Bright Star". All these forces are at the spot BEFORE the first plane hits the WTC.

September 6th-10th, 2001
Extreme increase in put-options on United Airlines, American Airlines and other companies affected by the attacks such as Merrill Lynch, Morgan Stanley, AXA and Muenchner Rueck. Inidcation for criminal inside activity at the stock markets.

September 10th, 2001
The Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) is being put on high alert one day before the attacks. In an interview with CBS-journalist Dan Rather the head of the Urban Search and Resque Team makes the following remark: "We were one of the first teams to support the city of New York in this desaster. We arrived late Monday night and started our job Tuesday morning." Reminder: The attacks happened Tuesday morning.

September 11th, 2001
Associates of Odigo Inc. in Israel, one of the world's largest companies for Instant Messaging with offices in New York, are being warned about the attacks two hours before the first plane hit the towers.

September 11th, 2001
Within 45 minutes four planes are being kidnapped. The first one at 8.15, the last one at 9.05. However, its takes until 9.30 until the first fighter planes are in the air, too late. That means that the government waited 75 minutes before it took action.

October 10th, 2001
The pakistanian newspaper "The Frontier Post" reports that the Oil secretary of Pakistan received a message by US-embassador Wendy Chamberlain. The content: Because of recent geo-political event the Unocal-pipeline, put on ice for a while, is back on the agenda. In February 2002 the negotiations started, in May BBC reported that the 2-Billion-Dollar-project was a done-deal as the "largest foreign investition" in Afghanistan.

Thanks soul!! Of course, this will go right over the heads of the white-power pro-Bush yes-men like "AaronForever" and "2the9s" - - but thanks for trying.

that is: white-power, pro-Bush, indoctrinated corporate-tools... like...

WillieThePimp said:

2the9s is no "white-power pro-Bush yes-man"... he's just very careful with information, very considerate... he just prefers to ask three times before forming his opinion. Thats cool... he's actually sharing the same thought, but he does not see that conspiracy is the sister of constitution..lol.. that conspiracy is not a bad thing, that it always has been there... everywhere... from the very beginning...

This is all very interesting information but not stating at least SOME sources reminds me of a book report in high school that is missing a bibiography.Interesting chronology nonetheless.---MinneapolisFunk--Brian

MinneapolisFunk said:

I will get back to you on that one... if you seriously want this, cuz its a LOT OF LINKS!... anyway: did you ever ask George W Bush for some sources before you believed him?
this info has been carefully researched in the internet and real life... and its not coming from shady revisionist sites...

Please - no flaming individuals. Don't make assumptions about what you think people believe in. If someone chooses to share their politics with you, respect that, listen, and disagree with their points if you wish to.

No stereotyping, no flaming, no personal attacks. Keep it on topic please. Criticise the ideas, not the person.

.
[This message was edited Wed Oct 16 18:49:02 PDT 2002 by Heavenly]

ian said:

Thanx, bro! now take this
alright, I'll be quiet

Heavenly said:

This is something I have considered a possibility, I have simply failed to dig up a reliable source. I didnt wanna post "hearsay" on this thread.

WillieThePimp said:

Thanks for the clarification Willie. You be the main pimp.

Now go out and water the crop circles behind your trailer-home so that they are flush for when reporters from The Enquirer show up.

Soulpower, thanks for the hash of half-digested information you hack, you well-fed cub-reporter, you Lincoln Steffens wannabe, you deadline straddling fool. (How'm I doing Ian? ):

You know I'm kidding, but I do have a few questions:

soulpower said:



I've said this before, why is this a bad thing? The US is rewarding a foreign government for cutting off a key source of narcotics (most of which find their way to Europe by the way, not the US) and for wanting to transform their economy into an agriculturally based one. What is wrong with that? Should we have completely witheld support from them because they are Muslim? Then the US would have been accused of issuing sanctions, no?

Sure this is self-interest, but in this case, I don't see how this is bad. Sometimes self interest and global interest work together. (I am not at all saying that this is the way this particular administration sees things!)

soulpower said:



Where did you hear this? I am interested because I follow Russian news fairly closely and never heard this (or even a rumor of this). Plus, for the life of me I can't imagine how Russian intelligence agencies would have gathered this information or why, if they did, they would then turn it over to the US (unless they were looking for a free hand in Chechnya, which they didn't get even after 9-11.)

They can't manage their own disasters! Although apparently they did successfully assasinate Khattab last year in an operation worthy of Tom Clancy.

soulpower said:



C'mon now, you know you need to cite this! That's conspiracy theory to the nth power! And dangerous the way the Protocols of the Elders of Zion was dangerous!

Now look, either provide sources or tell us what you think you were trying to say by collecting these scraps of information. As it is you provide neither the documentation necessary to make a convincing case or any sense of what exactly your case is!

But here's a for you anyway.

To borrow a phrase, hindsight is 20:20. I applaud the "fact" gathering, Soulpower, but we could have used your clear vision BEFORE the attacks!

There is NO American (no, not even Bush Jr) who would willingly allow the attacks of September 11 to occur. To suggest otherwise is utter and complete nonsense and wishful thinking. Period.

Sure, we are now all aware of information, clues, and warnings that were stupidly ignored or dismissed regarding the attackers and their plot. But to suggest that the Bush (or Clinton) administration allowed the attacks to occur in order to bolster the economy or their political credibility is fucking ridiculous. Think of how many "co-conspirators" would be required allow such an event. Powell, Bush, the CIA, countless FBI agents, our congress. Come on, people. Only on the internet, and especially here on the good 'ole conspiracy-enamored org would such crap even surface for "debate."

CRAZY shit gets posted here.

TheMax said:

Very well said, TheMax. I fully agree with your opinion on this.

The same issues are being faced in Australia at the moment.

Some of you may know that a car bomba exploded in Kuta, Bali on the weekend that killed over 200 hundred people. This is a heavy tourist area and 75% of them were Australians. Many locals and tourists from Brittain, Canada etc were also killed and injured.

This bomb was set off allegedly by one of the fundamentalist muslim groups with links to El Queda (sp?).

News is now coming through that intelligence was passed onto Australia that in the weeks before the bombing that there were warnings of potential bombings at tourist spots such as night clubs and bars in Bali. It appears these warnings were never passed on by our government.

It's hard to know whether it would hve made a difference for people to know of the dangers but at least they could have made a choice.

bkw said:

Yes bkw, this news has been reported all over the media. This shit is horrible! My sympathy goes out to all those who lost their lives.

Reports here are saying that American Intelligence had warned Indonesia repeatedly about Al Qaida's presence there, and about impending attacks. So whose fault is it?

Al Qaida's!

Very interesting and imformative. Thank you.

bkw said:

Indeed ...

John Howard... sigh... ... he never fails to disappoint.

"It's kinda like our running joke... but it's really not funny."

bkw said:

As I was watching the Australian prime minister declare "war on terrorism", it was clear to me that terrorist organizations have it much, much easier than the "Barbarians" who took on Rome many centuries ago. The Roman military might was spread thin, trying to control vast territories. Well, with the present approach to terrorism, all the scumbags have to do is wreck havoc in different spots on the planet. Bush has already said he will fight on two fronts, but what if there are three, four, five, six, seven, etc.? Pretty soon, the West would be a very visible presence in different regions, looking every bit like they think the world is their oyster, costing a great deal of money to taxpayers while other issues are left unattended, etc. And of course, with such an approach, it would be hard to tell other powers not to do the same and attack or "liberate" other countries that are a "threat" to their security. The recent Bush-Sharon summit shows the way : Isreal is to retaliate if attacked by Iraq -- hopefully not with nukes, but eh.. who can say in this atmosphere were an armed response is presented as the only solution to all security problems, and no nation is to live "in fear". I wonder how long it will take for Pakistanis and Indians to use the same rethoric to justify attacks on each other.

Scary world we've got there. Bin Laden, dead or alive, has got his wish.

TheMax said:

OK... I know u can't compare 1 person 2 thousands but what about JFK and that whole ordeal? MAJOR conspiracy. Anything is possible when it comes 2 greed.

cntrvrsy said:

Well, obviously TheMax doesnt believe so.
[Snip. Flame removed. Please criticise the points, not the person. Ian].
He says "it isnt so.Period." But like usual TheMax refuses to aknowledge information which might prove him wrong. Even if only have of the things in my thread are 100 percent true, than it would prove that Bush knew. But TheMax prefers to ignore this informtaion, he never makes a reference to anything I tell him. He just wipes it off the table. Maybe its his way of living an easy life. Conspiracy is everywhere. At work, in your family, everywhere. Maybe one TheMax will find out that not the people showing those facts are conspirators, but the people who are responsible for them.

2the9s said:

Where's Ian when I need protection from this vicious attack!

[Snip. Right here I removed the flame. Ian]



Yeah, that's me! Living the EASY life!!

yowzah...

TheMax said:

and I thought it was a pretty realistic statement

Look soulpower,

I need some sources if you want me to make a judgement about "the facts" you are providing here.
Prince.org is not a newspaper and I refuse to swallow facts without a proper referennce to where you got the info from and where I can look into it. Don't get me wrong,(parts of)the written press are a lot better than the tv, but if you want me to make comments then prove your facts with clear sources. And don't tell me that as a journalist that is your prerogative. This is erious shit so back it iup with trustworthy sources please.
ps. No offence, I like your contributions to the continuing bushoilweaponsnewworldorderwaroniraqbinladen discussions

Abrazo said:

Its funny, cuz nothing of this is really news... it has been written many times, but never really been connected like this. okay... links: that would take a while... lots of it comes from SPIEGEL.online which I conisider a very serious source... I have saved the stories but in many cases the links no longer exist simply because they are months old. this info is not pinned down from one recent website, but a collection of fragments which I have put together. It will be printed next week in the newspaper I work for. Usually BILD is extremely pro-USA, so the fact that they'll bring it should show you that there's a back up. However, if you REALLY care I will email you a list of about 200 links where you still might be able to catch lots of this info.

Interesting reading SOULPOWER

2the9s said:

AGREE!... and here is one from me SP...

TheMax said:

Totally agree! For one...For many years we had been getting treats from Bin Laden...The only thing is we never knew when and where or how...ONLY Bin Laden knew this! Nobody (at least where I come from ) ever denied we had no THREATS..
[This message was edited Thu Oct 17 13:35:05 PDT 2002 by OCEANA]

soulpower said:

Maybe because they scanned not all communication systems, or the planning occurred through other people's communication systems?

soulpower said:

Irrelevant fact. As you stated it shows how 'tight' the relationship may have been in May 2001, but it does not proof that Powell or even the Taliban leaders were aware of the upcoming attack.

soulpower said:

Such warnings are almost a daily routine...and reporting about it 3 days after the attacks, does not mean that anyone actually knew it in June.

soulpower said:

How is this evidence that shows that the US or British or Taliban government knew about the upcoming attack?
Also this can not be the reason for the attack - as you stated the attack was planned years before so a warning for military action made in Summer 2001 is in no way related to the already planned attack...

soulpower said:

Irrelevant fact... it does not contain evidence that either the US or Russian or Tadchikistan government was aware of any upcoming attack.

soulpower said:

And that shows what, in relation to the conspiracy theory that Bush was aware of the upcoming attacks?

soulpower said:

So he wanted surgery, got it, paid the bill and left. What does it proof? That the US and the Saudi government knew about the attack? Not really does it? All it shows is that the US were not afraid of Osama and wanted to help him out with his health problem.

soulpower said:

Now this is the most interesting fact! The guy was even arrested and released after 3 days. The reason they let him go was there was nothing they could charge him for. And someone without a criminal charge must be released from his arrest. That is what true democracies and law-abiding countries do. All it shows is that the US has a legal system that does not itself break the law! Very good!

soulpower said:

Bush is probably warned every day that someone could do something to someone else... should for every alarm the flight surveilance, military, police be alerted? Do you want to live under the power of state-terror? Because that is what you are asking for: military and police on every corner of the street, arrersting anyone suspicious and flight surveilance in the air all the time, shooting down every plane that does not act or fly the route they are scheduled for??? Many accidents ahead of us.

soulpower said:

Is this fact implying all the share-brokers were aware of the upcoming attack, yet foolish as they are they were walking to the Exchange market, passing the WTC (just a corner and across the street of Wall street) on the moment of the attack???

soulpower said:

So? Does that show thew US and British government were aware of the attack?
Maybe... this was related to the planned military action against Afghanistan - remember officials warned the Taliban that such action may be upcoming because of the oil pipeline!?

soulpower said:

This was rumoured right after the attacks. It was never proven! It was just a rumour, facts did not reveal it was true.

soulpower said:

Maybe Dan Rather mixed up the days in the hectic of the moment???

soulpower said:

Maybe their computer clocks were in the wrong timeszones and they thought the messages arrived 2 hours before the attacks, while actually the warnings arrived just after attack? You think it doesn't happen? A software engineer in my office complained to me that all my meeting requests were always out of date. Turned out his computer was in Samoa time-zone. he didn't even know how to correct it

soulpower said:

You are not going to put fighter planes up in the air because of a kidnapping... what do you want to do? Fly against the hijacked planes? Shoot them out the air (there were US citizens on board of those planes remember?).
All this shows is that after 40 minutes the purpose of the hijacks became known the fighter planes were launched to make sure any other plane getting hijacked could be shot out the air...

soulpower said:

Again, this whole oil pipe-line thing may be totally irrelevant to the WTC and Pentagon attacks...

I enjoyed this nice fact collecting, but please next time try to place facts that are relevant to the statement you are trying to make, or just facts that at least show any proof of what you're trying to proof!
Don't take it personal but I do not believe in a conspiracy to show how bad Bush is. He doesn't need schemes like this to show he is a jerk: he is quite capable of doing that without causing thousands of people to die.
[This message was edited Thu Oct 17 13:53:13 PDT 2002 by roverlo]