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Adultery Lets talk about adultery
anything and everything you think and feel about all aspects of it I am interested because I have some close friends dealing with it and I would like a wealth of outside opinions without the emotional tie to it ... so spill . [Edited 2/17/07 8:43am] | |
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If you're going to arrange a ridiculously expensive ceremony - that for the most part is going to be financed by your parents - just so that you could swear your undying monogamous love in front of hundreds of people you just HAD TO invite over to witness your great monogamous vows proving your eternal love and commitment in "sickess and health" you better stay fucking committed to that other person.
... and why in the hell did you ask me for a wedding gift in the first place? | |
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novabrkr said: If you're going to arrange a ridiculously expensive ceremony - that for the most part is going to be financed by your parents - just so that you could swear your undying monogamous love in front of hundreds of people you just HAD TO invite over to witness your great monogamous vows proving your eternal love and commitment in "sickess and health" you better stay fucking committed to that other person.
... and why in the hell did you ask me for a wedding gift in the first place?  so are you saying that the external circle of friends have a reason for their reaction ( perhaps anger ) towards the cheat ?
. [Edited 2/17/07 8:55am] | |
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I'm not a big fan of it.  | |
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jerseykrs said: I'm not a big fan of it.
co-sign.... | |
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It's wrong and proves that they can't handle committment... | |
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Theres no excuse for it.
... [Edited 2/17/07 9:15am] | |
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Mach said: so are you saying that the external circle of friends have a reason for their reaction ( perhaps anger ) towards the cheat ?
I just want my money back. 
No, but seriously speaking it's ridiculous how excuberant wedding ceremonies and the whole marriage institution is - and by "institution" I am also referring to the wide capitalist exploitation of it in the form of magazines, tv series and the whole lifestyle that extols it and sees monogamous love ultimately "as the meaning of life". Considering all the pretending and the effort that goes into it is almost funny how hard people find it to keep their reproductive organs tucked in their pants when left alone with a stranger in a locked room. Of course it's other people's business as well, they made it public in the most public of ways. Weddings are a statement and so are those rings that people are wearing, you are insulting a practise whose standards you are pretending to live by. In the end it makes communication on these matters impossible if there are such things as ceremonies or voiced-out opinions on the importance of love, while the married couple's troubles are seen as just privatized matters that nobody should comment on out loud. And that's why it is indeed so hard to discuss these matters: because people aren't acting fair on a communal level. A wedding vow is not just a personal vow. It's a social practise that has its own reasons and advantages. | |
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I understand all your statements... I am looking for deeper talks about it
your persoanl reasons ... your fears your experience though I understand also not wanting to share I really am looking for people to talk about the subject on a deeper level perhaps it's to scary or painful | |
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SammiJ said: It's wrong and proves that they can't handle committment...
could you explain more of your view on this statement ? | |
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emotionally you say "no fuckin way"
but when you can stand away from some situations you can see that it can be a means to an end. my sister stayed in her marriage until she was secure enough to leave it. she had another relationship in the works - she wasn't sleeping with him yet but i still considered it adulterous. we are weak and vulnerable and i would say adultery is a product of unhappiness with ones self. if i was in the middle of an adulterous situation though i'm not sure i could see clearly enough to be quite so understanding.   She couldn't stop crying 'cause she knew he was gone to stay | |
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Having been on both sides of this type of scenario, I think I've become desensitized to many things with this subject being one of them, I’ve never been married but I have been cheated on, people cheat, it happens whether you’re married or not it’s the same thing. People aren’t perfect they fall short or miss the mark, for many different reasons and just because they stood in front of a room or hall full of people and said whatever doesn’t mean that one or both won’t. Personally, I’m hard pressed to believe that no one ever cheated in one form or another, but like I said I’ve become desensitized to a lot of things. When you’re not with your partner one can only hope that that person doesn’t and to believe that it won’t happen isn’t being realistic to me, adultery, cheating whatever you want to call it has been around since the beginning of life...it hurts but it happens. | |
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Good topic..
I need to give this some thought before I reply.  | |
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The Bible says that if you even think about it with another man or woman, You've already done it in your heart. | |
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ThePunisher said: The Bible says that if you even think about it with another man or woman, You've already done it in your heart.
And that's bullshit. Everyone thinks about it. Thinking about it and having fantasies are not adultery. Why set up such unrealistic expectations of people and doom yourself to failure? |
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CarrieMpls said: Thinking about it and having fantasies are not adultery.
What about swinging? | |
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ThePunisher said: The Bible says that if you even think about it with another man or woman, You've already done it in your heart.
I understand this ..and respect it for those that choose to believe it Many do not embrace Christian ideas though  | |
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ThePunisher said: The Bible says that if you even think about it with another man or woman, You've already done it in your heart.
I think such a declaration is extremely unreasonable. Human beings are imperfect, and having imperfect thoughts or temptations comes with the territory of being human. Yes, contemplating being with someone other than one's spouse can be an indication of a serious problem in a relationship - or it might simply be an innocent fantasy to pass 5 minutes on a lazy afternoon. Condemning one as an adulterer for having simply had thoughts of being with another is unfair and, in my view, a potentially harmful attitude. | |
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Of course people are going to break their marital vows. Otherwise there wouldn't have been a reason for voicing them out loud in the first place. | |
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The voice of experience speaks....
Though there are plenty of people who will come up with truisms as to the whys and the how could yous, the bottom line in most cases is simply opportunity. Its the age old question...if you can get away with it, would you do it? I and many in (and out) of my circle have strayed...while you're doing it, you deal with the inherent guilt that is born of such a selfish pursuit, but you tend to get wrapped up in your own insulation of justifications....in my case, I built up this fortress of excuses that in the end was reduced beyond rubble when I finally had to face the music for my actions....and had to deal with the emotional damage that I'd caused for my wife. It will be a lifelong pursuit to repair that damage and to reforge the bond, but I know in no uncertain terms that, when its all laid out for inspection, that it isn't worth the hassle of having to fix all the damage for some brief moments of sampling the grass on the other side. I disagree to an extent with the assertion that infidelity is an inability to handle commitment....it certainly is a major factor, but its not the defining one. No, infidelity IMHO is mostly borne of the idea of "Is this it? Is this all there is?", a concept that once the shine is off of your own bond, its a lot easier to play in another yard than to maintain and improve the one you're already in....or in some cases, when the "other" is one from your premarriage past, the concept becomes "Did I miss out?". And without fail, you tend to find that you didn't miss out on a damned thing, that it was a ghost better left in the past... Again, its a condition of humanity....wanderlust....that will live on much longer after we're gone...the reality is that the significant majority of us, no matter how devout or high-horsey we are, will experience it in some way or another....whether it is in thought only or in action as well.... just my 2 cents.....  [Edited 2/17/07 11:36am] He was like a cock who thought the sun had risen to hear him crow.
(George Eliot) the video for the above... 
http://www.youtube.com/wa...re=related | |
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I've learned to keep my mouth shut about this here.  Oh shit, my hat done fell off | |
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INSATIABLE said: I've learned to keep my mouth shut about this here.
you could always orgnote me your opinions | |
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INSATIABLE said: I've learned to keep my mouth shut about this here.
....do tell, do tell.....
 He was like a cock who thought the sun had risen to hear him crow.
(George Eliot) the video for the above...
http://www.youtube.com/wa...re=related | |
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reneGade20 said: The voice of experience speaks....
Though there are plenty of people who will come up with truisms as to the whys and the how could yous, the bottom line in most cases is simply opportunity. Its the age old question...if you can get away with it, would you do it? I and many in (and out) of my circle have strayed...while you're doing it, you deal with the inherent guilt that is born of such a selfish pursuit, but you tend to get wrapped up in your own insulation of justifications....in my case, I built up this fortress of excuses that in the end was reduced beyond rubble when I finally had to face the music for my actions....and had to deal with the emotional damage that I'd caused for my wife. It will be a lifelong pursuit to repair that damage and to reforge the bond, but I know in no uncertain terms that, when its all laid out for inspection, that it isn't worth the hassle of having to fix all the damage for some brief moments of sampling the grass on the other side. I disagree to an extent with the assertion that infidelity is an inability to handle commitment....it certainly is a major factor, but its not the defining one. No, infidelity IMHO is mostly borne of the idea of "Is this it? Is this all there is?", a concept that once the shine is off of your own bond, its a lot easier to play in another yard than to maintain and improve the one you're already in....or in some cases, when the "other" is one from your premarriage past, the concept becomes "Did I miss out?". And without fail, you tend to find that you didn't miss out on a damned thing, that it was a ghost better left in the past... Again, its a condition of humanity....wanderlust....that will live on much longer after we're gone...the reality is that the significant majority of us, no matter how devout or high-horsey we are, will experience it in some way or another....whether it is in thought only or in action as well.... just my 2 cents.....
[Edited 2/17/07 11:36am] A wise post. | |
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reneGade20 said: No, infidelity IMHO is mostly borne of the idea of "Is this it? Is this all there is?", a concept that once the shine is off of your own bond, its a lot easier to play in another yard than to maintain and improve the one you're already in....
You don't even have to put that "IMHO" in there, that is basically what is at stake with any pursuit for happiness. If we weren't dissatisfied with our lives we could be just as well stop trying to live altogether. There are different ways trying to handle it though, one thing that helps you from hurting others is being aware of your own behaviour's motives. Unavoidable frustration can be (at least tried to be) channelled to other things as well. Just my opinion, I'm an idealist still in that respect as I've never been married. | |
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WillyWonka said: reneGade20 said: The voice of experience speaks....
Though there are plenty of people who will come up with truisms as to the whys and the how could yous, the bottom line in most cases is simply opportunity. Its the age old question...if you can get away with it, would you do it? I and many in (and out) of my circle have strayed...while you're doing it, you deal with the inherent guilt that is born of such a selfish pursuit, but you tend to get wrapped up in your own insulation of justifications....in my case, I built up this fortress of excuses that in the end was reduced beyond rubble when I finally had to face the music for my actions....and had to deal with the emotional damage that I'd caused for my wife. It will be a lifelong pursuit to repair that damage and to reforge the bond, but I know in no uncertain terms that, when its all laid out for inspection, that it isn't worth the hassle of having to fix all the damage for some brief moments of sampling the grass on the other side. I disagree to an extent with the assertion that infidelity is an inability to handle commitment....it certainly is a major factor, but its not the defining one. No, infidelity IMHO is mostly borne of the idea of "Is this it? Is this all there is?", a concept that once the shine is off of your own bond, its a lot easier to play in another yard than to maintain and improve the one you're already in....or in some cases, when the "other" is one from your premarriage past, the concept becomes "Did I miss out?". And without fail, you tend to find that you didn't miss out on a damned thing, that it was a ghost better left in the past... Again, its a condition of humanity....wanderlust....that will live on much longer after we're gone...the reality is that the significant majority of us, no matter how devout or high-horsey we are, will experience it in some way or another....whether it is in thought only or in action as well.... just my 2 cents.....
[Edited 2/17/07 11:36am] A wise post. Gracias....  He was like a cock who thought the sun had risen to hear him crow.
(George Eliot) the video for the above...
http://www.youtube.com/wa...re=related | |
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novabrkr said: reneGade20 said: No, infidelity IMHO is mostly borne of the idea of "Is this it? Is this all there is?", a concept that once the shine is off of your own bond, its a lot easier to play in another yard than to maintain and improve the one you're already in....
You don't even have to put that "IMHO" in there, that is basically what is at stake with any pursuit for happiness. If we weren't dissatisfied with our lives we could be just as well stop trying to live altogether. There are different ways trying to handle it though, one thing that helps you from hurting others is being aware of your own behaviour's motives. Unavoidable frustration can be (at least tried to be) channelled to other things as well. Just my opinion, I'm an idealist still in that respect as I've never been married. Very well said.....and I believe that the first step is acknowledging the selfishness first and foremost...the motives are secondary when you consider the fallout, yet you do it anyway..... He was like a cock who thought the sun had risen to hear him crow.
(George Eliot) the video for the above...
http://www.youtube.com/wa...re=related | |
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WillyWonka said: reneGade20 said: The voice of experience speaks....
Though there are plenty of people who will come up with truisms as to the whys and the how could yous, the bottom line in most cases is simply opportunity. Its the age old question...if you can get away with it, would you do it? I and many in (and out) of my circle have strayed...while you're doing it, you deal with the inherent guilt that is born of such a selfish pursuit, but you tend to get wrapped up in your own insulation of justifications....in my case, I built up this fortress of excuses that in the end was reduced beyond rubble when I finally had to face the music for my actions....and had to deal with the emotional damage that I'd caused for my wife. It will be a lifelong pursuit to repair that damage and to reforge the bond, but I know in no uncertain terms that, when its all laid out for inspection, that it isn't worth the hassle of having to fix all the damage for some brief moments of sampling the grass on the other side. I disagree to an extent with the assertion that infidelity is an inability to handle commitment....it certainly is a major factor, but its not the defining one. No, infidelity IMHO is mostly borne of the idea of "Is this it? Is this all there is?", a concept that once the shine is off of your own bond, its a lot easier to play in another yard than to maintain and improve the one you're already in....or in some cases, when the "other" is one from your premarriage past, the concept becomes "Did I miss out?". And without fail, you tend to find that you didn't miss out on a damned thing, that it was a ghost better left in the past... Again, its a condition of humanity....wanderlust....that will live on much longer after we're gone...the reality is that the significant majority of us, no matter how devout or high-horsey we are, will experience it in some way or another....whether it is in thought only or in action as well.... just my 2 cents.....
[Edited 2/17/07 11:36am] A wise post. Very wise, thank you Rhythm floods my heart♥The melody it feeds my soul | |
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I think we all have different limits and weaknesses. I think it is important to know yourself and what you want in a relationship and do not try to play up to some false expectation if you know you are the type of person that will stray.
I think we all do it for varied reasons. For me it was because I was alone in my relationship for a long time and I finally realised that it would always be that way. I fooled myself in the beginning thinking I could deal with being with someone like my soon to be ex husband. I thought that maybe someday he would realise what I needed and he would change- HA!! He was probably the only man in this world that I would never ever have to worry about cheating on me and I kept telling myself that at least that was one less worry in our relationship. I knew he was very rare and that he truly believed that once you marry someone you stick it out no matter what- even if there is no more sex or communication. So- I guess it comes down to discussing your limits, wants, needs and dsires up front. It comes down to being true to yourself and what you believe in. I think for many it happens when you feel you have lost a connection with the one person you are supposed to be most connected with. It is not easy being on either side of adultery. Not sure how I would deal with being on the other end of it- now that I have ended things with my husband- I will have that worry back- with him it was a safe bet that I would not have to deal with being hurt by someone cheating. Though he found other ways to hurt our relationship besides cheating. | |
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I've known people who have had their marriages torn apart by infedelity, and people who have been brought closer together by it.
The couple in the latter situation started their relationship over from scratch (with the help of a counselor), and had to build their trust all over again. Their story was an eye opener for me, because I realized that adultery does not automatically signify the end of a marriage. The cheater regretted what he did, and went back to his wife. Then again, I know a couple where the cheater wanted to start a new life with his mistress. This was devestating to his family. Not only did they experience betrayal, but rejection as well. While I admire the first couple for making their marriage work, I cannot see myself being as forgiving, or emotionally resilient. I understand that some people are more flexible with their commitment level while in a relationship, but I am not one of them. For people who see sexual intimacy as a reflection of their deep commitment and love, infedelity is a knife through the heart. I would rather have my beloved end the relationship with me and go to someone else, than live a double life with a mistress. While breaking up would be painful, discovering that he was unfaithful to me would be unbearable. If anyone I know was tempted to cheat on their lover, I would tell them to either break up first, or just don't do it. The temptation may pass. Sebastian Bach (of 80's hairband Skid Row ) put it best when he said, "What's more important? Banging some #@!^&*, or the happiness of my family?" That's all I have to say. For now anyway. [Edited 2/17/07 12:27pm] Wanna hear me sing?  www.ChampagneHoneybee.com | |
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