sallysassalot said:

Like me, you'll be throwing your money away on branding. I'm a label whore--that's the only reason I'm eyeballing a mac.

Imago said:

honestly, if i go with a mac, it won't be a brand issue. i'm truly frightened of writing up a brief, outlining my casebook, or writing a legal research paper only to have it go berserk before i have to hand it in. this happened more times than i'd care to remember in undergrad. one time my defaults kept getting changed automatically (i'd changed or done nothing differently prior to this happening)...i eventually had to hand in a paper that was 10 point font for the first half and 7 point font for the rest. it was a nightmare. add to that the crashes and viruses and spyware i've had problems with...no, brand or no brand, i'm terrified of going through that the week of finals.

Imago said:

..and you'll note on this site (which is not a bad site) that you have to buy XP Pro to get an even match according to their final scores. Most systems do not ship with XP Pro. I think Dell charges something like $149 or more extra to upgrade to Pro when buying some systems.

Plus, you have to look and see where these scores are being earned. XP gets high marks, for example, because it allows you to backup and restore system files that have been corrupted or changed by 3rd party apps and while OS X doesn't have as developed of a feature, the reason is that OS X doesn't allow 3rd party apps free reign to pollute it's file system to begin with.

Otoh, OS X gets higher scores in real world features like Internet/email tasks, Workflow automation, general power user features (ironic considering the idea that Macs are toys).

Finally, the site above gives OS X lower scores in some areas because upgraders have to buy OS X and iLife separately - never-mind the fact that you can purchase both packages together and still spend less than an upgrade for XP Pro alone.



The main thing I like about OS X is that it gets out of your way to let you work the way you want to work. Whether you are a novice or an advanced user, it scales with you. ..and you don't have to worry about viruses/spyware and driver conflicts cropping up constantly.

Also, Macs tend to be more usable over the long haul and the resale value on them is much greater. I purchased my first Power Mac back in 2001 and sold it 18 months later and made back over %50 of what I paid for it. PCs have virtually no resale value, and certainly not anything that high 18 months later.

sallysassalot said:

I was pretty much bigoted against Apples up until 2001 when I was 'seduced' by OS X (as a previous user of NeXTSTEP - what OS X is based on - I ran out and bought a Mac the week it was released). Once I started using the system, I realized how truly frustrating and limiting a Windows PC had been for me. I had to 'work' to use it, if you know what I mean, it wasn't doing the work for me.

The brand makes no difference, and if Apple was just another Windows vendor then I wouldn't dream of purchasing one. The answer is in the software.

I service computers for a living, and have done so since 1991. The hell I see in users Windows systems on a daily basis is just mind boggling. Now, don't get me wrong, older Mac software - prior to OS X - was really no better but the customers I have that run OS X don't even remotely have the same amount of issues, nor do they tend to be as severe.

Of course, you will occasionally hear of an unusual problem with Macs, because they are by no means perfect, but the reason these issues are so often hyped up in the media is due to their rarity. It's big news if there's even a rumor of malware for OS X. If the same attention was devoted to Windows malware there'd never be time for any other kind of news.

Tom said:

Premiere is much older than final cut and not as cool! There are a lot of video editing programs out there (vegas), but for the low budget, final cut combined with dvd studio pro is the tops. I do use adobe after effects extensively for special effects and image processing.
[Edited 7/7/06 22:20pm]

sallysassalot said:

Oh wow. My PC that has better operational statistics than yours cost me under 300$ to build already about four years ago. And my two other computers that I've built from components found from trash cans cost me absolutely nothing. PCs must be really awesome.

HereYoRockYourWorld

Haha, okay. Sorry, but this is a very stupid comment and it simply isn't true.

jtfolden said:

Yeah this is absolutely true, and one valid factor to be considered when purchasing... well anything expensive. On the other hand, because PCs and especially old components have little resale value you can get them practically for free. A lot of the components in your PC don't have to be up-to-date to be functional. On PCs you also get to exploit people's unawareness of the technology, on Macs the only people who get to exploit people's lack of basic computing knowledge are the sales personnel at the store.
[Edited 7/8/06 0:28am]

we're getting a HP pavilion (?) media centre laptopn thingie, I wonder if that is any good?

ufoclub said:

they DO advertise it
check out the pc vs. mac commercials

and sassy, glad you've chosen a mac, u won't be dissapointed

I don't get why anyone would be excited with the mac running two operating systems. People that work on a Windows or a Mac platform have already made up their mind which OS they prefer. You're basically wasting hard drive space for an OS you will probabbly never use.

I've jumped back and forth between Windows and Apple/Mac machines, since the mid 80's. We had Apple IIgs, PowerMacs, and now my brother has a Mac mini. Same thing when I was in college, the art dept had all Macs in it's labs. The power macs in our classes were contstantly being restored from images, because students were scewing them up. I would take my projects home and finish them on my Windows machine because I was getting irritated working on the Macs.

They're not horrible computers, but I always felt limited on them, limited software, limited compatibility with devices, limited availability of products for it in the stores. I gave my brother an extra Cannon scanner I had, and he could not use it with his Mac, which be bought in 2004, because there were no drivers for it.

Imago said:

I agree.

And I agree with Tom's post. Go PC - I'm willing to have an in-depth, super-geek converstaion with you if you want.

Tom said:

if you do a lot of audio and video you would prefer the mac, but if you limit your creative software to adobe products you could prefer the PC, although aesthetically there is no comparison, the look of the mac OS and hardware is way more evolved than windows, as a matter of fact, windows always incorporates mac stylistics a year or so later.

Now if you do 3D animation, you would have to go with the PC at this point in time.

I use both platforms extensively for paying gigs, and am excited to be able to run both on the same machine.

it's kind of like getting a fancy car vs a honda, luxury or practicality.

But soon it will all be the same...

Novabreaker said:

A) you didn't build a notebook (which is what we're talking about), let alone for $300. b)You sure as heck didn't build a nicely equipped CORE DUO notebook or desktop 4 years ago for $300.

I'm actually buying a new computer tomorrow.

I've owned my iBook for over five years and it's finally kaputz.

I'm getting a MacBook Pro. Looking forward to it.

jtfolden said:

a) oh okay, that's the original question in the top post, my mistake (it still applies to desktop machines) b) I'll eat a ham sandwich (being a vegetarian that's a big task) when a dual-processor system is going to deliver all the advantages for the multitasking and media applications they are promising in the ads.

ufoclub said:

Maybe in 1999.

Novabreaker said:

E-FUCKING-XACTLY.

I hate it when people pull that card. Even moreso when you've seen Windows Vista's built in video-stuff. Honestly, Mac users tend to hear about this when it was true and hold it as true forever. Just shut up and try using a PC rather than sticking with your outdated concepts! Things have changed!

Obviously this doesn't apply to all mac users and I am generalising. I, in fact, use a Mac and a PC side by side. I still think PCs are better though. There's a reason they have a 96% market share.

sallysassalot said:

Depends on what you want to do with it. As has been said before, if you're looking to do alot of creative work, manipulation of audio, video, photos, etc. Get the mac. (yeah not everyone agrees, but having used both, for these applications; Advantage Mac, for now...)

If this is to do legal research, outline casebooks (God I forgot about that hell) and write papers, sure the mac will do that just fine, but it's like buying a ferrari to drive to the grocery store. Westlaw, lexis and MS Word run just fine on a $300 pc. You could create some damn nice demonstrative exhibits I suppose with a mac, but hell that's what paralegals are for.

Also, if you know the bare minimum about protecting yourself online, it's relatively easy to stay virus and spyware free.

.
[Edited 7/9/06 12:41pm]

Universaluv said:

you would think, right? i've always had the full mcaffee protection (viruscan, firewall, spyware protection, etc) and i don't download from unknown sources (no winmx, no bearshare, etc). yet i've still had multiple problems with all of the above. what's worse is half the time when my system notices something it then tells me i don't have the authority to delete the source of the problem. meanwhile, my boyfriend has been using the same mac for over three years (and it was my former roommate's for two years prior to that). in those five years not one single problem has ever appeared.

thanks for all the advice, guys. i went with the macbook.

that is not a comment on any pc users, by the way, so spare me some of the defensive remarks that i just know are coming. some of you gave me some great things to think about in both directions so thanks for that! some of you also just got very offensive/defensive...its a computer, man, not world peace.

thanks again for the help though. as a computer ignorant person i really wanted to see what peeps were suggesting. i posted the question on some other sites i visit and the opinions were generally the same, pros and cons for each. in the end i went with mac because my friends with macs just never have problems, at least not the kind i had with my two previous notebooks.

sallysassalot said:

you lost me at mcafee. The corporate version rocks. Their home version is pure ass.

Have fun with the macbook.

Spookymuffin said:

Sorry but I sell and service PCs and Macs for a living (and have done so since the very early 90's). If this WAS 1999 then I'd say get a PC but things HAVE changed. Especially where the average home user is concerned there is nothing on the Windows side that is as easily available, easy to use and as integrated as the iLife apps (iDVD, iMovie, iPhoto, iWeb, GarageBand)

...and, please, don't play the Vista card... That's so typical of M$ and it's blind followers to talk about what's 'coming soon' rather than what's already here. The fact of the matter is we will probably have a new version of OS X and an entirely new version of iLife before Vista even ships and Vista is still playing catch up to where OS X is today.



Yes, there is... because only one PC company makes Macs and they, also, make their own OS (which they don't license out). Whereas a lot of companies make their own PC's but have to license the software for it (whether you buy a Dell or a Compaq you're still adding just another Windows unit) - they sure aren't going to opt for Linux in great numbers but do you think Dell wouldn't snap up the chance to bundle Apple software ( they've already stated they would)? Do you think a great number of people who build there own systems wouldn't love to have a nice compatible copy of OS X to toss on it? To look at it another way, Apple is in the top 10 worldwide PC manufacturers. The market share of the OS is irrelevant to the end user if the software gets the job done (and it's a number that would shift in staggering numbers overnight if 3rd parties could license it, anyway).
[Edited 7/9/06 16:08pm]

jtfolden said:[quote]

Spookymuffin said:

I'm too drunk to make any points, but I must say I agree and disagree. As a fellow nerd you have my respect and support, and as nerds we always disagree.

It's the nature of the game. I actually run linux full time when not at school, so I know all three. My preference lies with an nLite'd copy of WinXP, then OSX on Intel.

jtfolden said:

I hope you are joking. Why would you be concerned about "the average home user" when we were on our turn speaking of media production? Do you really think proper music production is done on GARAGEBAND?!?

Besides those are mere programs (and kids toy programs basically, to be honest) so that doesn't say anything about additional hardware integration, realtime monitoring latency issues, efficient usage of memory on multiple streams, 3rd party plug-in support, proper drivers, processor muscle and how it is actually used and so on. Those are the kind of issues you can debate over when discussing the whole Macs vs. PCs - not whether your 2000$-3000$ computer comes with a bunch of bundled basic programs or not. That's just silly.

Novabreaker said:

You know I get the impression that you haven't been following along... first you respond to a thread about a choice between notebooks by claiming you built one for yourself years ago on $300 and now you apparently are too busy to notice that I was responding to a comment talking about BUILT-IN/BUNDLED software in Windows/Vista...

So, before you talk about being silly, please understand what you're responding to first...That's certainly better than to go out on a tangent about an issue that doesn't apply to the original post and has no bearing on her choice. From what I'v heard here, Sallysassalot sounds like a typical "home" user and they benefit GREATLY from software that would be bundled or easy to acquire. Many novice users buy Macs and end up doing things with the included software which they would otherwise never dream about if it wasn't right in front of them and easy to understand.

Spookymuffin said:

LOL That's okay, enjoy your drunkenness. The OP has made her decision so this thread is sort of moot now anyway.

For designers MAC it seems has been best- but i can never use a freakin Mac!! The mouse just doesn't do what i want it to do, not like the PC- so simple and straight forward...i guess it's a matter of what you learnt on and what you use often though!!

I was having the same quandry until I talked with someone who had practical experience with a MacIntel machine.
The particular PC program I need to use is one that operates at the kernel level of Windows.
This is where I had a concern having bad past experiences running PC emulator programs.
However using a Mac utility called Boot Camp (currently Beta), you're allowed to partition your hard drive and install a proper version of WinWhatever.
My friend was able to use the utility, install WinXp and the program in question with no problems.

One caveat.
There have been reports from Boot Camp users that their Macs have gotten stuck on the Dark Side and would not reboot in OS X.
If you're not in a hurry and want access to both platforms via one piece of hardware, I might wait to install Windows until Boot Camp is out of beta and its function is rolled into the next major OS X release (Leopard).

That's what I plan on doing so that I can enjoy the Mac elegance and have access to a pedestrian PC all on a laptop.



tA

Tribal Disorder

http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431

Spookymuffin said:

You fail to realize that I currently use both to make money to pay for my life, not for fun. I just shot a bunch of footage in HDV, and I sure as hell don't want to try to capture that stuff and edit it on my PC. The aesthetics of the apple software are so much more fun to use.

ufoclub said:

You almost nullify your whole statement there by saying you use Apple software for its looks. Not that I don't believe you, just pointing that out.

It's not worth arguing. Some people prefer the other OS, I really couldn't give that much of a shit - I was drunk and angry when I wrote that post above, even though I agree with some of what I wrote, there's no point trying to convince someone otherwise - computer usage is acheived by the user and no user is really willing to totally change (just look at the amount of people who go back to mac/pc having used the other).

Spookymuffin said:

How does that nullify anything? When you make music or graphic designs you are trying to achieve a degree of aesthetic perfection. why not make the process pleasing too? And why do you think PC's slowly attempt to incorporate all the stylistics and convenience of macs every year? I bought a little condo because it pleased me aesthetically (after looking for months and months) to fulfill a function of shelter... I work in media because it's more fun than working a corporate culture 9-5 job, I use final cut pro and a mac for dvd/video/protools because it's more fun. I use a PC for adobe programs (cheaper processing power), and 3D animation.