i've heard so many variants of the quote that's in my thread title that it's just unreal. every time i talk to my dad, he'll sometimes sorta beg me to get enrolled into art school. it's understandable, he wants to see me put my artistic skills to good use, make money, whatevs.

BUT!

why the sam hell does art school have to be so fucking expensive?!!! and what's the purpose in going to an art school anyway? i don't understand it--i'd be going to art school to have some teachers teach me stuff that for the most part i've been learning about on my own ever since i started drawing at the age of 5. the majority of my skills (both graphic and by hand) are self-taught, so it's kinda like i wouldn't need to go to some fancy-pants art institution to sit in classes all day and learning how to draw friggin still-life portraits (which, btw, i fucking dreaded doing when i was in art classes throughout elementary/middle/high school--i prefer to work with the stuff that i see in my head a lot of the time) and all the different artistic styles that have been used (i remember having to do a project using pointillism when i was in 12th grade...the whole time i was like, "why do we have to DO this shit?!") and whatever's clever.

when i was in my senior year of high school, my art teacher took the class i was in on a one-day field trip up to minneapolis, so we could tour MCAD. for a while, i was really wanting to try my hand at getting enrolled there and getting either a BFA or a MFA in cartooning or something, but since then my urge to do that has totally waned. mostly because even with grants n'such, it'd still cost an arm, leg and my youngest great-nephew to buy supplies for my classes and all that stuff. that, and i have absolutely no patience when it comes to sitting in a class and having someone tell me which way is up when it comes to art. i'd wind up just doing shit like everybody else, and if you know me well enough, you know how i feel when it comes to that. i gotta be me.

guhhhhh. frickin hoity-toity, expensive-assed, snooterrific art education system!!!! WHY CAN'T YOU ALL BE FREE?!!!!!

[/endrant]

...thanks for tuning in to my rantage. if any of you were once art students, throw yer two cents in if you wanna.

You're too damn talented to need schooling. s

EskomoKisses said:

everyone tells me that too, but unfortunately if i wanted any sorta legit job i'd have to have a little piece of paper that sez that i spent 4 years of my life rotting away in art classes to prove that i'm talented.

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

Ohhh yeah..... freakin' catch 22 situations

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

I agree with Gretch, but I hear that about the fucking educational system, skills and talent are nothing without that goddamn piece of paper.


Deja

I hear ya. But you get a lot more outta school than a piece of paper.
I actually wouldn't recommend MCAD, though it's the snooty art student school du jour in Mpls. I can't think of the name of the St Paul school, but I've heard fantastic things about it from friends of mine who ahve gone there.
What artists need even more than learning more about their craft is to learn how to make a living as an artist. How to write grant proposals, how to get shown in galleries, stuff like that. Finding an art school that can help you hone your craft while teaching all that other stuff you need to know is invaluable. And loans can always be paid off. And with your current income and talent, I'm guessing you'd be eligible for all sorts of grants, scholarships and financial aid.
And hey - nobody knows EVERYTHING about anything. You may be a great artist (and I think you are!) but we can always learn more.

It's a means to an end. That end being making your way in life doing what you really enjoy and have a talent for doing.

Can you tell I regret not going back to school sooner??

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

I had to bite the bullet and decide to go back to school at whatever costs. I have five securities licenses and eight years in the brokerage industry but I can't make my six figures without that fucking piece of paper. It really sucks ass.

I truly feel ya on this.

My mom said "You CANT go to art school"

I was going to move to Minne to go to Art school but she wouldnt let me leave Texas.
I didnt want to study art,I just wanted to live in Minne.
So I stayed in Texas and studied Fashion & Art

I still want to live in Minne

I hear ya, girl.

I didn't go to an "art school", but I studied multimedia design for a year in college, and what I found is that learning new ways of doing things, even if I ended up going back to my own style in the end, made me a better artist. Being forced to work with constraints (ie. assignments), rather than just doing whatever ya feel like doing, is extremely valuable. . . it forces creative growth.

And yes, if you want to make a living at it, it not only gives you the credentials, but it makes you part of a community/network of people who can help you segue into being a professional artist.

That said, the reason I'm not a professional artist after getting my design certificate is that I decided, over the course of doing the work for my assignments, that it would be a real drag to have to do work that I didn't necessarily even like to please somebody else, and to be critisized about something that can be so personal.

Now, *I* think you should be a tattoo artist.

CarrieMpls said:

yeah--i've gotten one of their brochures in the mail...my eyes just about fell outta their sockets when i saw how much it costs for tuition and shit. i live just a couple blocks up the street from art institutes international...dunno how that is, aside from seeing those commercials back in the day where you'd have to draw that friggin cartoon turtle on a postcard or something and send it in to them.


yeah, but the type of art that i do i really don't wanna have shown in galleries and stuff for the high-brows to gripe over. i'm more of an undergroundsy-type.

true--i have a preference/tendency to learn things by eye though (which is exactly how i learned how to draw, by watching my mom draw things) and observe stuff as it's happening, instead of sitting and being told how to do it all.

I was just using grant proposals and galleries as an example. You'd have the resources there to figure out just about anything you wanted... And what Melissa touched on was that you network with other artists. It's gets you knowing the right people. Heck, you might even find folks to collaborate with, start your own comics, what-have-you.

And I think tattoo artist is an AWESOME idea for you too.

SeattleInvasion said:

i'm used to making stuff for people on a deadline--from junior high thru high school i worked with the school newspapers and illustrated articles for the folks who wrote stuff...that, and i also had my own comic strips going too. they usually had like at least a 2-week window before they took stuff to print and i'd always be finished before the 2 weeks was up. i work very fast because if you give me a basic idea for something i'll already start fleshing out ideas for it in my head before i put it on paper.


that's another biggie with me too, to do stuff for someone who'll bitch about it and it'll end up getting bitched about it. i don't mind criticism, but it's like "if my shit sucks so bad, then do it yerself!"


one of these days i wanna become a tattooist's apprentice for one of the tattoo places here in town. hell, they see me often enough when i go in to get tatted, so why not?

you might enjoy the interaction with other students, being immersed in a creative environment you can flourish and exchange ideas with fellow art students etc. I've been an art student and loved the discussions we would have and we also encouraged and supported each other. With art its very easy to become disillusioned with it all and give it up alltogether.The contacts you make in art school are very useful.As carrie said, collaboration with other artists can be a great experience.

...
[Edited 3/31/06 11:33am]

Can you look into a grant at a public university?

applekisses said:

you mean like a community college?

Ehhh sounds like you're just not really feeling it. I dont blame you.

Maybe it's best to study something else. Something that you have interest in but willing to learn more about.

True artists cant be taught,they teach themselves.

PS - I realized I did exactly what I hate when I rant. I don't want someone to come at me from the other angle I just want to vent.

That said - if you're vehemently against the idea but DO want to find a career in art, there are other things you can do. Maybe just take one community ed class. Find a mentor. Find other like-minded people and see what they've done, what works for them. Do research at the library and submit stuff to magazines, etc, on a freelance basis.

It's just that schools give you so many resources, and as lleena said, you're in a creative environment.

I'd start looking into some of the other commercial art/art schools around the Twin Cities. There are several. Talk to some recruiters/counselors and see what they can offer. It's worth checking into.

I think you artist types are the dregs of society.

i like art school...

but i don't like how they try to force you into a certain kinda style

i like the interation with other artists
learning from the part time profs who still have shows running
learning about the art world and how to survive in it
and i love art history...

i wish people would tell me more often that me picking art school was a good choice...but i guess i'm in a different situation...

over here, art is seen as a joke...


and i unno... i think i've become a better artist since i've started school...maybe cuz of all the resources around that are available to me...

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

I understand.

I don't just mean a deadline, though. I mean creative constraints. "Demonstrate this or that design principle in a 4 x 6 box using only curved lines. GO!" It might sound like torture, but I found it to be very satisfying and mind-expanding. It also forces you out of ruts. . . I had a good friend who was (is) a really talented artist, and I took a drawing class with her. . . it was reaaaalllly hard for her, because she had been drawing a whole lot for a long time, so doing it in a different way was tough. But in the end, I think she felt it was a good thing. She had a wider range of capabilities, and her work afterward, while it was still very much hers, had a sort of maturity to it. . .

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

Yes ma'am. Especially when what they're telling you they DO want is ugly/wrong/tragic, and you KNOW it, and you wanna be like, "bitch, if you think you're an artist, why are you paying me?" 'Zactly.

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

You should totally apprentice. It's so easy to imagine you doing that. . .

You can practice on me. . . . . . . I'll save my left leg for ya.



Really, we over-commercialize shit in our culture. It's not valuable if you're not making money with it, right? Well, bullshit. You're an excellent artist whether it's your job or a hobby. If you don't want to go to school for it, fuck it all, and DON'T.

If you do want to, take out the loans. It'll be worth it in the end.

ThreadCula said:

...which is my point.

2the9s said:

Go make some moussaka

ThreadCula said:

I don't think a person can be taught to be an artist, per se, but I DO think an artist can learn new/different approches. IMHO, art isn't some ethereal thing delivered from the heavens. The passion can't be taught, but the skills CAN, and like with anything in life, exposure to different ideas and perspectives creates depth and meaning. Artists are not exempt, and depth and meaning are a good thing to have stirred in with that passion.

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

true artists have a natural talent, I agree, but art school can take that talent to places you alone might difficult. its a very competitive world, the art world.

LleeLlee said:

thing for me is that i don't wanna do it for the competitive side of things. i just wanna be me.

SeattleInvasion said:

co-sign

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

Nobody is going to be able to take that away from you. And most art teachers won't try. . . they are artists themselves, after all.

But yeah, the competitive aspect of things sucks. . . I'd hate to be an artist who is trying to get in to galleries and such. . . bah.

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

of course, it really is up to you, I just think that in that kind of environment you can take what you need from it to help you succeed as an artist ( if you want to do it as a career) Lots of great artists went to art school and some didnt. you wouldnt be selling out your talent.


youve got talent and how you use it is your choice, i just think art school will help you to focus that talent in a way that may benefit you as an artist.

always be you, that wont change if you go to a good art school.

.....
[Edited 3/31/06 12:03pm]

SeattleInvasion said:

high-brow stuff like things for gallery showings i've never wanted to get into...some of it looks nice, but what's the point in showing off art that you can't touch or interact with in some manner? i wouldn't wanna have a sculpture up for show with a bunch of velvet ropes around it and all the "OMGZ DON'T TOUCH!" signs up (hell, people will still touch it regardless of all that ).