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Printablemy teachers were artists themselves. | |
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LleeLlee said: my teachers were artists themselves.
that's cool...i respect folks who actually know of what they speak and have done the very same things that they're teaching, as opposed to somebody who's done nothing more than just be fed whatever they're gonna be teaching to students and not actually having created anything themselves.  | |
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You could always try to get into the cooper union in manhattan. It's free.
http://www.cooper.edu/ It depends on what you want to do. Being a formally trained graphic designer sometimes I (honestly!) wish I'd just gone to school to be a programmer. People are always judging your art, most of the time people who know NOTHING (sorry didn't mean to infringe on your rant) and I only did a graphic design degree to be practical in the first place! Who can make a living being a painter?? sheesh. Anyways, my advice is do your thang for a few years and THEN go to school. You'll know what's really out there and be better prepared. | |
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Handclapsfingasnapz said: applekisses said: Can you look into a grant at a public university?
you mean like a community college? yep...or a four-year univeristy art program. If you make under a certain amount of money you can qualify for a Pell Grant that will pay for your tuition and most times your living expenses as well. You don't have to pay it back, either! 
http://www.fafsa.ed.gov/ | |
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I hear ya but I straddle the fence... went to school for mine but it cost me a shit load of $ so having that hanging over my noggin ain't cool, however without it I wouldn't be in the line of work I'm in which suits me & branches off into other areas that interest me as well. I couldn't do it w/o having gone to school BUT for those who can really make it happen without the degree (networking, actually working in the field, etc) I say go for it. Just be realistic about it - what kind of artist do you ultimately want to be? What are the concrete steps to getting there? If you can finess it w/o the debt, do it The most important thing is not kidding yourself & revisiting this question 10 years down the road if things don't pop 
, [Edited 3/31/06 12:33pm]   I never met you, but I LOVE you & I will forever!! Thank you for being YOU - my little Princey, the best to EVER do it | |
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In certain fields of art, a good portfolio will get you in more than a degree.
I got into the art profession just one semester shy of a bachelor's degree. (I always meant to go back, but time just flew.) | |
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CalhounSq said: I hear ya but I straddle the fence... went to school for mine but it cost me a shit load of $ so having that hanging over my noggin ain't cool, however without it I wouldn't be in the line of work I'm in which suits me & branches off into other areas that interest me as well. I couldn't do it w/o having gone to school BUT for those who can really make it happen without the degree (networking, actually working in the field, etc) I say go for it. Just be realistic about it - what kind of artist do you ultimately want to be? What are the concrete steps to getting there? If you can finess it w/o the debt, do it
The most important thing is not kidding yourself & revisiting this question 10 years down the road if things don't pop i've been drawing cartoons forever and know a little about graphic art, so something within that aspect would work fine for me. also, i've also been wanting to work with silkscreening again--something i haven't done since my graphic tech classes in high school--but i don't have the fundage or space in my apartment to do silkscreens. thanx for all the advice thus far ya'll, i appreciate it!  | |
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SeattleInvasion said: don't just mean a deadline, though. I mean creative constraints. "Demonstrate this or that design principle in a 4 x 6 box using only curved lines. GO!" It might sound like torture, but I found it to be very satisfying and mind-expanding. It also forces you out of ruts. . . I had a good friend who was (is) a really talented artist, and I took a drawing class with her. . . it was reaaaalllly hard for her, because she had been drawing a whole lot for a long time, so doing it in a different way was tough. But in the end, I think she felt it was a good thing. She had a wider range of capabilities, and her work afterward, while it was still very much hers, had a sort of maturity to it. . .
Soooo damn true... ...One of the most frustrating--and eventually the most valuable--things I experienced while attending "Art School" was as assignment of coming up with 100 different book cover designs utilizing only one word of text, two images...and we had to xerox the word and images 100 times each, and create these book covers using only a glue stick. And we had a day and a half to do it in.
It was valuable because it taught us how to break past that point of mind-numbing artistic block we all experience, kinda like going past that threshold of pain that a runner hits...around book #45 you're swearing you can't put those damn xeroxed images and word together in an even slightly new creative way, bits of torn-up paper are scattered all over the place, and you only have 7 hours before you have to leave for the 8:00 am class...you want to stop, you can't stop..and you KNOW you gotta do 55 stinkin' more book covers...not just come up with a good one, you've already come up with like 10 good ones and 35 that stink. You gotta come up with a grand total of 100. It's amazing when your brain just looks over at a pile on the floor next to your shoe at 1:00 am...and you find yourself seeing a rather good book cover design starting to form in your mind's eye...then another one...then more ideas flood into your mind...ideas and creations you would never have discovered if you were not forced by some "fancy shmancy art school" instructor to come up with 100 designs. And there's NO way possible of recreating that atmosphere on your own. It was also valuable because it breaks you from your belief that the ideas you come up with in the beginning are always good enough...and let's face it, 99% of us tend to stop once we think we've discovered the solution to the design project we've been given. Many times we do return to that first, original "good" design...but to do so after intensively pushing our own creativity is a whole different thing than to do so after trying a few more attemps then silently telling ourselves "This is good here, I don't need to spend anymore time finding another design solution"... However, it ultimately depends on what you're artistic goals are, I think...but then again, to romanticize the idea of "talented artistic loner" might be shortsighted, since most artists through history did indeed hone their talents and skills by studying at universities or under another artist. [Edited 3/31/06 13:51pm] | |
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I've been in an art school 10 years ago, to learn graphic design. I hated my teachers, competition, and their comments were frustrating me, and my style.
I learned the rules and the job but according to me I lost a lot. I feel now I want to learn again, for hand/eye training. I'm french and don't know about your education system, but a good portfolio is for sure the best passeport here, better than any sheet of paper. What I can tell you is : never stop drawing, and don't do anything you don't feel. | |
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Byron said: SeattleInvasion said: don't just mean a deadline, though. I mean creative constraints. "Demonstrate this or that design principle in a 4 x 6 box using only curved lines. GO!" It might sound like torture, but I found it to be very satisfying and mind-expanding. It also forces you out of ruts. . . I had a good friend who was (is) a really talented artist, and I took a drawing class with her. . . it was reaaaalllly hard for her, because she had been drawing a whole lot for a long time, so doing it in a different way was tough. But in the end, I think she felt it was a good thing. She had a wider range of capabilities, and her work afterward, while it was still very much hers, had a sort of maturity to it. . .
Soooo damn true... ...One of the most frustrating--and eventually the most valuable--things I experienced while attending "Art School" was as assignment of coming up with 100 different book cover designs utilizing only one word of text, two images...and we had to xerox the word and images 100 times each, and create these book covers using only a glue stick. And we had a day and a half to do it in.
It was valuable because it taught us how to break past that point of mind-numbing artistic block we all experience, kinda like going past that threshold of pain that a runner hits...around book #45 you're swearing you can't put those damn xeroxed images and word together in an even slightly new creative way, bits of torn-up paper are scattered all over the place, and you only have 7 hours before you have to leave for the 8:00 am class...you want to stop, you can't stop..and you KNOW you gotta do 55 stinkin' more book covers...not just come up with a good one, you've already come up with like 10 good ones and 35 that stink. You gotta come up with a grand total of 100. It's amazing when your brain just looks over at a pile on the floor next to your shoe at 1:00 am...and you find yourself seeing a rather good book cover design starting to form in your mind's eye...then another one...then more ideas flood into your mind...ideas and creations you would never have discovered if you were not forced by some "fancy shmancy art school" instructor to come up with 100 designs. And there's NO way possible of recreating that atmosphere on your own. It was also valuable because it breaks you from your belief that the ideas you come up with in the beginning are always good enough...and let's face it, 99% of us tend to stop once we think we've discovered the solution to the design project we've been given. Many times we do return to that first, original "good" design...but to do so after intensively pushing our own creativity is a whole different thing than to do so after trying a few more attemps then silently telling ourselves "This is good here, I don't need to spend anymore time finding another design solution"... However, it ultimately depends on what you're artistic goals are, I think...but then again, to romanticize the idea of "talented artistic loner" might be shortsighted, since most artists through history did indeed hone their talents and skills by studying at universities or under another artist. [Edited 3/31/06 13:51pm] 
That's a really creative assignment, and exactly the sort of thing I'm talking about. Seattle Org Invasion July 28th-30th  http://www.prince.org/msg/2/177514
Third Annual MinneVasion Oct 20-22nd  http://www.prince.org/msg/2/183063 | |
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Byron said: SeattleInvasion said: don't just mean a deadline, though. I mean creative constraints. "Demonstrate this or that design principle in a 4 x 6 box using only curved lines. GO!" It might sound like torture, but I found it to be very satisfying and mind-expanding. It also forces you out of ruts. . . I had a good friend who was (is) a really talented artist, and I took a drawing class with her. . . it was reaaaalllly hard for her, because she had been drawing a whole lot for a long time, so doing it in a different way was tough. But in the end, I think she felt it was a good thing. She had a wider range of capabilities, and her work afterward, while it was still very much hers, had a sort of maturity to it. . .
Soooo damn true... ...One of the most frustrating--and eventually the most valuable--things I experienced while attending "Art School" was as assignment of coming up with 100 different book cover designs utilizing only one word of text, two images...and we had to xerox the word and images 100 times each, and create these book covers using only a glue stick. And we had a day and a half to do it in.
It was valuable because it taught us how to break past that point of mind-numbing artistic block we all experience, kinda like going past that threshold of pain that a runner hits...around book #45 you're swearing you can't put those damn xeroxed images and word together in an even slightly new creative way, bits of torn-up paper are scattered all over the place, and you only have 7 hours before you have to leave for the 8:00 am class...you want to stop, you can't stop..and you KNOW you gotta do 55 stinkin' more book covers...not just come up with a good one, you've already come up with like 10 good ones and 35 that stink. You gotta come up with a grand total of 100. It's amazing when your brain just looks over at a pile on the floor next to your shoe at 1:00 am...and you find yourself seeing a rather good book cover design starting to form in your mind's eye...then another one...then more ideas flood into your mind...ideas and creations you would never have discovered if you were not forced by some "fancy shmancy art school" instructor to come up with 100 designs. And there's NO way possible of recreating that atmosphere on your own. It was also valuable because it breaks you from your belief that the ideas you come up with in the beginning are always good enough...and let's face it, 99% of us tend to stop once we think we've discovered the solution to the design project we've been given. Many times we do return to that first, original "good" design...but to do so after intensively pushing our own creativity is a whole different thing than to do so after trying a few more attemps then silently telling ourselves "This is good here, I don't need to spend anymore time finding another design solution"... However, it ultimately depends on what you're artistic goals are, I think...but then again, to romanticize the idea of "talented artistic loner" might be shortsighted, since most artists through history did indeed hone their talents and skills by studying at universities or under another artist. [Edited 3/31/06 13:51pm] Awesome example, Byron. |
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I agree with the whole different perspective thing. I've taken a few art classes in college, and now I know how to do things in various ways. Of course I still do it my way, but it's just nice to know that your style can be diverse. Sometimes I even incorporate my original style with other styles that have been taught just to see what the outcome would be. Unless you're a freelance artist, you're still gonna have guidelines regardless when working for a company.  looking for you in the woods tonight Switch FC SW-2874-2863-4789 (Rum&Coke) | |
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i think there are arguments to be made for and against formal training in a school environment. a degree can help open doors down the road. but first-hand experience counts too.
are you thinking of doing web design? i've always thought you do excellent design work here at the ORG with your pictures and banners and etc. or something in graphic arts? there are trade schools with that could give you more options in terms of class schedule and financing. | |
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It's damn near impossible to find a job in art. Most people I've known wound up either sticking around at the school and became an instructor there, or took on a non-art profession to support their creative endeavors.
Colleges and Universities in general are ridiculously expensive, not just art school. But attending a university gives you access to all sorts of equipment that you would not be able to afford on your own. It's also a good experience to work in a variety of mediums, and dealing with different instructors (who may or may not have the same interests and aesthetics as you), and getting input from your classmates. I majored in photography. With my photo classes, I had had access to the studio (lighting), Hasselblaad cameras, color processors, enlargers, etc... I was able to dabble in other media, such as sculpture, and had access to the kiln, the plasma cutter, etc... | |
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Trust me. You should try and get a degree in what you love if you want to continue doing it or having an enjoyable life. My mother complains about never having become an artist because she mever had the money for the schooling... if you have the money, get in there and BELIEVE IN YOURSELF.
I know how it feels... it can be scary to get in there amongst all the others but you'll have time to think it through and if you put the work in, you'll really appreciate doing it. | |
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Heh...let me tell you about art school...I paid oh say about 25,000 grand a year for 4 years to go to college and get a BA degree in Art (Photography) specialization...and I am not even being one at this moment in time....But I just had to go and study at Valparaiso University....my student loan bills make me cry everytime I write out the check once a month. What I really want to do is spend more money and go and get my masters degree, so I can teach photography at the college level and I can not do that unless I have atleast a masters degree. 
So I soon shall see my student loan payments swell....thank god for stafford loans...but still I gotta pay that shit back...  | |
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Handclapsfingasnapz said: Now, *I* think you should be a tattoo artist.
 one of these days i wanna become a tattooist's apprentice for one of the tattoo places here in town. hell, they see me often enough when i go in to get tatted, so why not? 
 One of the artists at my Mom's shop went to every tattoo shop in town begging to be an apprentice but nobody would give him a chance because he had never tattooed anything in his life until he went to my parents shop who happened to be looking for someone and were super impressed with his portfolio of drawings that he had put togehter in art school. Couple that with the fact that he was a super cool guy and very responsible (which is sometimes a rare in the tattoo/piercing fields) and also that Andy (my stepdad who died last year) was the kind of guy who would take a chance on a person. In fact Andy was so sure about him that he helped him pay for his first gun and ink. So anyway they bring him in and they started out having him tattoo oranges for practice and finally he graduated to people and his first few tattoos were on members of my family who were already pretty inked up and MAN were they bad. But Andy could see that he had some talent so he stuck with him. Fast forward like 5 years and he is one of the most respected tattoo artists in St. Paul (There is actually a picture of him tattooing some dude in todays Pioneer Press). Dude is REALLY good and he is almost always booked solid. He is so good that my Mom keeps raising his percentage because not only has he earned in but she wants to ensure that he stays with the shop instead of opening his own although personally I think he will be loyal to them forever because he's that kind of guy and he feels thankful to them for giving him a chance. BTW successful tattoo artists make an extremely good living. Anyway...the short of this story is don't be afraid to ask these shops for a chance because the worse they could do is say no. Although personally I doubt that you would ever find anyone else who would help you buy a gun and ink totally based on artwork. I think Andy was a pretty special man. If you were truly interested in tattooing I suppose the natural first step would be buying a gun and ink and then just practicing on fruit and people you know
I wish you lived in St. Paul and I wish Andy were still alive because I would see if he would let you hang around the shop. I actually think the shop is pretty filled up right now and I just don't think my Mom would have the time or ability to take a totally untrained apprentice into the shop. | |
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BTW - I totally believe that ALL education is a good thing so if I were you I would do my best to go to school even if you never used the degree. | |
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lovemachine said: BTW - I totally believe that ALL education is a good thing so if I were you I would do my best to go to school even if you never used the degree.
This philosophy major agrees wholeheartedly.  Seattle Org Invasion July 28th-30th http://www.prince.org/msg/2/177514
Third Annual MinneVasion Oct 20-22nd http://www.prince.org/msg/2/183063 | |
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lovemachine said: BTW - I totally believe that ALL education is a good thing so if I were you I would do my best to go to school even if you never used the degree.
i would, but i'm the type of person that if i spend a lotta money on something, i have to use it straightaway instead of just letting it sit. | |
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Handclapsfingasnapz said: lovemachine said: BTW - I totally believe that ALL education is a good thing so if I were you I would do my best to go to school even if you never used the degree.
i would, but i'm the type of person that if i spend a lotta money on something, i have to use it straightaway instead of just letting it sit. You use it straightaway by incorporating it into your worldview. . . by growing as a person for having it. I'm sure that you, being the type of person that you are, believe that there are ways to recieve value from something besides money/employment. Seattle Org Invasion July 28th-30th http://www.prince.org/msg/2/177514
Third Annual MinneVasion Oct 20-22nd http://www.prince.org/msg/2/183063 | |
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Well, all I've gotten out of the art student experience is that being an art student is reather all about being an art student. People most often just do it because they want to see themselves as a certain type of character - a personality - and they want to do it student circles where your lifestyle will be more automatically recognized. It's an entirely different deal why individuals like me chose to go for Art Research instead. Now wasn't that a great idea as well...
Art you can make on your own, those assignments that pissed you off at junior high or gradeschool showcase just how the public education system functions. It's not meant to inspire the most talented, or hone their special skills like it should, but rather it's meant to merely offer personally challenging tasks for the mediocrity of children/grown-ups-to-be. The ones that are ahead of the others will always suffer in that kind of environment. It beats me why they are stubbornly continuing the same pattern all the way up to the tertiary art schools themselves. | |
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If you're somewhat interested in programming and such, as well as art, there's quite a few "Art & Technnology" degree programs popping up at Universities nowdays that focus on digital art and web design, and touch a little on scripting languages/databases. You might be more likely to land a job with that degree than say, in painting or printmaking for example. | |
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Goddamned girl, just do what everybody else does. Send your stuff around to differing record companies, see if they need artists, ad agengies, whatever. Rejections are the norm in art, so I wouldn't take one rejection as gospel. Stick in there and keep making the best, most original art you can do.
Send some stuff to Prince. All you others say Hell Yea!! | |
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