Seriously. Think about it. Depressing, isn't it?

i dont agree .... at all

I don't agree! As matter of fact, I think most of the times, 99% of the time, there is a happy ending.

No. I don't want to think about it. Life's difficult enough as it is without thinking about future events that haven't even happened yet.

Sit back, relax, enjoy the ride.

All is wrong.

Why? Because it all ends in death?

Exactomundo. And it all inexorably ends in an ending, where the source of joy cannot be possibly reached again.

Novabreaker said:

Well, doesn't that make today's joy all the more wonderful, then? Bittersweet, like dark chocolate. Enjoy it!

Novabreaker said:

No it isn't. Life's hard. For everyone, in different ways. But it depends on how you deal with it.

If Life was some straightforward journey - no twists, no turns - as schmaltzy or as boring as this seems, you'd learn nothing along the way.

You've seemed quite perky the last few months. I hope life's treating you well.

Novabreaker said:

We're all going to die. Not much you can do about it.

Heiress is right - enjoy it NOW.

TheCatWoman said:

we're not talking about your career in massage.

Heiress said:

Yes, good observation. It goes with the structure of the phenomenon. And that's the only reason as far as I can see why people pursue anything in the first place. But an ending for a joyous event (or a life arch) cen never come off as happy itself, for it always demands an end to the potential joy. In an end it cannot be reached ever again. The joy that was experienced first constitutes the sadness as well, for we then suddenly lack the joy. It cannot be pursued anymore - the process has come to its end. And only within a process can there exist a sentiment of joy or pleasure. In an end there is no time left, and happiness as it is a process for pursuing a joyous activity reflectively (repeatedly) demands time to be experienced. Therefore an ending cannot be happy as it excludes joy and pleasure from its own structure to become an (absolute) ending.
[Edited 12/9/05 5:14am]

Novabreaker said:

That's why it's good to keep busy. And of course, there's more happiness in giving than receiving.

Anxiety said:

you like extra special treat ja?

Heiress said:

Yes, some have argued that indeed the will to live is to "want the want". Or if you want to dig deeper it could be to "want the act of wanting itself" (for it would have to be reduced to that formal level to really make sense). Not a specific object, but a pure will to live. The act of wanting, which is a continuous process. Of course, ultimately in death this process will have to come to its end. But in an any kind of ending (how small or big it may be) we mourn the end of the process itself. The process used to bring us joy.

Novabreaker said:

I don't belive in the 'phenomenon' or the 'process'. That assumes that people have a pre-ordained path to follow. That doesn't happen. We make decisions/choices each day which have an impact on the next event. Enjoying the ride is the important bit.

I respect everything you're saying, though. Just not my bag.

are there happy beginnings?

we define our own unhappiness, and sometimes unhappiness is a necessary boot camp for coming out the other side stronger and with more resolve in one's happiness.

nobody is owed happiness. we have to define it, earn it, protect it, share it.

Anxiety said:

cborgman said:

well, duh.

Anxiety said:

Novabreaker said:

Well, the Epicurians looked at the flipside instead; they argued that there is no need to fear death since it is the end of all experience and therefore means no further suffering.

It may sound silly, but give it some thought and you'll realize that it's both a valid and useful perspective.

.

onenitealone said:

No it doesn't require that at all, you have slightly misunderstood me here. I am not talking about the "process" in any Hegelian light that would assume some sort of spirit, or even anything that needs to believed in. The process here I am referring to is first and foremost an analogy to our cognitive powers transferred to the sphere of experience (for that's how these concepts were defined in the first place). A "process" simply is an event taking place in some kind of time frame. A "phenomenon" is another description for any kind of event taking place in space and time. More to the point, phenomenons are how objects of the real world appear in our experience.

We have to make the distinction here between "joy" and what we find "pleasuring" first, for these are two different things. You have to understand that it's not actually the "joyousness" of the event itself that results in pleasuring sentiments (for it would be very naive to think so), but the awareness of the substantiality (the fact that some sort of process is taking place and allowing us to experience joy) build inside it. The fact that we can keep on performing our joyous activity as such. "Joy" or "happiness" are simply concepts for the outcome of any activity that we find pleasuring, and whatever pleases us is a process, as so to speak, because it takes place in time (you experience everything within a time frame). Once a process of any kind is finished and cannot be continued under any possible conditions, this is what we call an "ending".

Of course one could reverse the scenario here by saying that there are indeed "happy endings" if that would mean an end to an event we found unpleasant in the first place. However, there are two kinds processes that result in some type of sentiments: a reflective process, which requires time for its own functionality, and also something that could be described as an antithesis for the process itself, a conflict (or an "anti-process"). A conflict halts the process from taking place (it halts its processual time in that essence), and it will hinder any real pleasuring emotions from surfacing until we arrive at a solution. However, this solution is not an ending as such, because a solution is yet another successfully defined concept, and therefore only a potential beginning for something to happen. After a conflict life indeed goes on, but a conflict itself is what we call "suffering". This is something we so ardently try to overcome.

retina said:

I can fear also the death of my loved ones, not just my own. My own fears are merely reflections of the others - as that's how our subjectivity is constituted. My argument here is that only life can potentially provide happiness, but a concept of a "happy ending" is beyond our reach and only a fantasy, because the structure that offered us that potential no longer exists (for there is no longer a suitable time frame for something to take place). However my own ending, death, cannot be happy for myself either for the one simple reason that I am not here to experience it anymore. Suffering is dealt within the solution to a conflict, yet death only finally erases our existence. There is no potential for happiness either, anymore.

(just laughing at myself)

Thank you all for your comments, I would like to read more of your views if possible. Any kind of views.

I hate to be negative but i agree. That are no happy endings. Everything ends in death. That's why i always say live for now. Don't waste your life. Don't worry about 20 years from now because you don't even know if you will be around in 20 years. Go out and get some variety and excitement in your life. Don't lie around in a routine. Keep going for better and better. Whether it be women, men, jobs. Anything.

There's also no sex in the champagne room, for that matter.

starkitty said:

Hmmm. I don't think I can tackle this argument here by diving into metaphysics.

Anxiety said:

Definitely. A beginning is the essence of happiness, a potential new start for pursuing happiness. That is happiness to the core, without anything staining or conflicting it yet.

Anxiety said:

starkitty said:

Chris Rock.