ehuffnsd said:

how funny that you make an accusation about my own personal experiences yet you want to throw a lobbed ball out that *i* should stop questioning what others are doing?

tis not my place to.....

i witness...i analyze and i react...thats life...and based on my own personal experiences i have personally chosen *not* to attend these events..

if you cant live with that then more power to you...because i respect your personal choice...

but how funny that you cant extend that same courtesy....


this is just outrages..i have white people up in this camp telling me how i should react to my experiences?

is this what pride is about? is this what acceptance is about? that i should accept the racism that i have experienced..and chuck it all up to just "a few incident" and i should let it go for the greater cause?

well, couldnt humans say the same to gay people in general, "let it go gay people...its for the betterment of humanity?"


and then to say that i am juding lesbians, leatherman and draq queens? just to win an arguement? piss poor gutter debating tactics i say...piss poor!!

im shocked, appalled and amazed....

i wanna recap my take on this matter:

i personally do not feel the need to attend this event because *I* have not felt a part of this community..further more, when the media only displays the extreme fractions of this community and totally misrepresents *us* i dont want to be a part of that media machine.....*and* with the commercialization of this event where more and more family members are bringing small children *I* personally feel it is wrong to allow people to walk around buck naked...to engage in sexual activity and be perverse in front of these small children....either you go back to what it was (which was a small event for the gay community....who were all adults) or you continue the disneyfication of this event and scrap the nudity, sexual acts and the overabundance of drug and alchohol use..


how in the world people can misconstrute my statements as being disrespectful of others is beyond me...how anyone can say that i am being anti-leather or anti-lesbian or anti-nuns on the run is beyond me.....

seriously people!! i am shocked at how some have reacted within this thread...

this is pride huh? only the way you see it fit? thats what it comes to ehhh?

viva diversity my fucking ass....



[Edited 6/14/05 0:15am]

Whew! this is a lot to get through!

Well, I hope that when all is said and done... We are happy to be who we are. And take Pride in being gay. I know I do.

It doesn't take a parade, or a bar, or someone telling me how I should be or like or react.

I am gay and I am me and I am proud to be me.

I wish you guys and gals a great month. Hopefully it'll be filled with positive gay experiences or you create your own and share the positivity. That's what it's about right?

I think Natisse said it best up there...


[Edited 6/14/05 0:13am]

sosgemini said:

kee, the only part of the gay community you haven't gone after in this thread is well, pretty much you, and you wonder why people are reacting badly to it?

you've generalized and stereotyped damn near everyone of us with your comments today.

Satan said:

how have i generalized and sterotyped *you*? answer *that*...remove your emotions.....read my statement and respond.....


the world is your stage...

i said:



then i said:




and then i said:



then i said:


and then i said:



and then i said:



and then i said:



and then i said:



and then i said:



and then i said:



and then i said:



and then i said:

and then:


and then the final post above...now where have i gone after any member of of this gay community?

by sharing my experiences with white men i am attacking them? by pointing out my concerns that children are witnessing men engaging in sexual activities? by showing my concern that children are looking at people naked in the street?

how is this attacking them? have i said they were immoral people? they were bad?

no..ive said i do not support this myself and so i dont attend...have i judged these people? no.....

and your telling "me" i am going about discussing this issue wrong? when you are telling me that i am making general statements about my own life experiences....and ehuffnsd is here saying that i have insulted an entire list of gay groups because i show a concern for what i consider inappropriate way of going about showing pride (within our current cultural climate)?

folks...this aint the sixties anymore...people arent jumping up and down talking about "this is the age of aquariece" buck naked..the nudity shit is old....

and each year the media picks up on that..and the drag queens and thats all they show on tv.....am i judging these people? hell the fuck no..im making a comment on what the media picks up as representing our "supposed called community".....I WANT A BALANCED PERSPECTIVE....once again this aint dogging no group out so drop your anger ehuffnsd.....im glad cha know the history of these folks...history lesson learned..still doesnt take my own desire to see a balanced perspective..say it with me, "balanced perspective"..there we go...


you have dueling forces here....the city, the event planners want this thing to be a disney parade....yet old school people who want to keep this thing at its 60's core....you cant have both....thats what my experience was about....the clashing of the two...and it disgusted me.....soo much that all of my experiences lead to me saying, "this is it...no more"...

and shit, you people aint even from the mutha fucking bay area.....and thats the only event im talking about...

damn..

im annoyed now...goodnight.


moresiththenabithedit...
[Edited 6/14/05 0:45am]

sosgemini said:

okay... we'll start with the stuff aimed indirectly in reference to my people, and therefore me



generalization that the gay community as a whole does not treat lesbians, transgendered people, and "people of color" as they do their own.

i am a member of that community, so you are saying this about me, which is viciously untrue. my mother is a lesbian, her partner is a lesbian, and most of the best people in my life are lesbians, including many surrogate mothers.

i can't say a whole lot about transgendered people, because i have known very very few, but i respect them just the same as i would anyone, part of my gay community or not.

i have dated pretty much across the board when it comes to ethnic background, and i will always continue to do so, because who i date is not decided by the color of their skin, but their intelligence, sense of humor and compassion. about half of my extended family is black, and part of the reason i love that so much is because it annoyed the shit out of my racist ass grandfather before he died.

and for the record, i used to use the term "people of color" untill my all too wise beyond his 8 years pointed out to me that we are all people of color, just different colors.



stereotype and generalization. people who are white can't understand racism? utter bullshit.

one of the few times i have ever experienced in my adult life someone screaming 'FAGGOTS' at me was while walking down the street hand in hand with my then boyfriend who happens to be black. we ignored the group and kept walking. he asked me if i was okay, as it shook me up a little and he could tell.

"well, at least they weren't shouting 'ni**er and ni**er-lover, that's gotta be progress of some sort." i said.

the only time i have ever got up and walked out on a date was when on a date with a guy i had just met. ever so casually he said something about 'these goddamn ni**ers' (i forget the context)

"why would you feel okay to just say something like that in front of me" i asked.

"what difference does it make, you're white" he responded.

"half of my family is black, and i would really appreciate if you didn't use that word"

"well, it's not your fault you're related to ni**ers" he said.

i got up, told him to not ever call me again and left his ass sitting in the resteraunt.

can i understand what it is like to be black or another ethnic minority firsthand? no. but to say that i can't understand racism because i am white is bullshit.



again, broad generalization. systematic is defined as:" marked by thoroughness and regularity" meaning it is pretty widespread, which is bullshit.

i am not racist, nor am i anti-lesbian. commercial? well, i do enjoy the hell out of target.



stereotype and generalization.i have never ever met anyone at a pride event and had sex with them.



generalization. i have never taken my dick out at a pride event except while in a port-a-potty to pee. and unless i am blind, the majority of the "lesbos" i have seen at pride events have been wearing shirts.

now onto the ones said directly to me:



stereotype. you clearly have no idea what my sense of pride is, because in many ways it is the same as yours. i think the representation at pride events can be cringe-worthy, i just don't dismiss the few as the whole the way you do.




stereotype and generalization. because i am a gay man, instantly i am one of that great stereotype of gay men that i would rather drink myself silly than strive for change? wanna hear my track record on protests on the state capital steps in austin?



stereotype and generalization. i don't own a single gap article of clothing as i hate the gap, i find khakis boring as hell and own none.

and the tu-tu comment is just dredging up the old ass stereotype about gay men and crossdressing.

not to mention the generalization that the parade is nothing more than drag quees and dykes on bikes.

a joke, yes, but stereotype and generalization just the same.

and this doesn't go with the rest of my post, but i just wanted to comment:



well, honestly, the way you have made it sound in this thread, all you want in your pride events is plainclothed reflections of you. no drag queens, no shirtless lesbians, no leatherfolk, no circuit boys, no one with body paint... so i hardly think you have room to say such a thing, because whether you like it or not, those people have just as much right as you to do to be represented and proud of who they are. as long as you continue to say they have no right to be themselves because their behavior disgusts you, you are no better than the homophobes and the racists who feel the same about you.



.
[Edited 6/14/05 1:37am]

sosgemini said:

see my last post



no, by saying as white people we would never be able to understand racism, and by continually painting the white gay community as a whole as racist.



repeatedly. the example with the bus stand, the thing about it being "a ho/dick fest" and so on...



repeatedly, see my last post.



you are letting a few bad examples who perpetrate stereotypes, who are by far in the minority, judge your opinion of the gay community as a whole, which is no different from what your garden variety racist and homophobes do.



but yet in your posts in this thread, you have portrayed the gay community with the same slanted stereotypes and even several the media doesn't.



see above.
[Edited 6/14/05 1:50am]

I can see why they picked a word that means "happy" to describe you guys; you really brighten up this place! Have a great time this month and may you find both love and sex in abundance!

...oh me oh my.

for anyone who cannot find anything good to come outta pride events, my advice to you is as follows: for everything that you think of as "wrong", more than likely there is a "right" to counter-act all that. don't dwell on the negativity so much, as it'll only lead right up to the feelings that you have. yes, there's segregation in the community. yes, there'll always be those who show up to pride events just to be seen or just for the sexual aspects of it. yes, all of that is totally bothersome and shouldn't be; perhaps there's a way that you can help change all of that. don't wait on others to change what you wanna see changed.

the only thing that really bothers me about the pride events is all of the corporate sponsorship--the uber-obviousness of it all, "look, we've got a float and we're in a gay pride parade! BUY OUR STUFF!"--but does that prevent me from going to the parades or to anything else tied in with the pride celebrations? no. i simply ignore it and focus my attention on the next float or somethin else. it's a bit like watching a tv commercial in real life; unfortunately you can't put it on mute, but you get the idea.

with all that said, i wanna wish everybody on this mofo a happy & safe pride.

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

If you wanna make the world
a better place
take a look at yourself
and make that...CHANGE!



Make that change...

RipHer2Shreds said:

MIGUELGOMEZ said:

Good luck with that husband hunt! XOX- Stu

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

i think what we need to do is bottle you and your wisdom hand you out at pride events.

BCorgman said:

awww, shucks...

We should be Proud that coporate America bows to our over the top antics and sponsers Pride.

Granted it's for the money... but they are willing to upset other people that by from them to get it from us.

We shouldn't have to change who we are to be accepted in this society.

And yes media shows the outragous antics, but it's because news is about ratings. same way that Rap is so big and the thug look is the accpeted view of blacks is it sells commericals.

sosgemini said:

dear if you scroll up and questioned if i thought you looked normal. where did you get off doing that.

and once again i must say Parents bring their children to these events knowing that certain things are going to happen.

i shouldn't have to change what i do for people who obviously don't care what their children see. it's not my responsiblity.

ehuffnsd said:

i totally understand that too...it kinna turns me off a bit, is all.


exactly. outrageousness sells, so to speak.

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

Unfortunately, a lot of what they're selling to the GLBT community - like other minority communities - is alcohol and tobacco. Almost any public GLBT event is sponsored by some sort of cancer.

RipHer2Shreds said:

THAT is what bothers me. there's a lotta other sponsors that aren't of the liquor/tobacco sort, but unfortunately the loudest and most visible of all the sponsors are the folks who peddle cancerettes and liquor.


sponsored by edit vodka
[Edited 6/14/05 10:52am]

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

Very well said.

I think that if one dwells on the woes of society too much they'll just end up being jaded and cynical. Life is too short and wonderful to dwell on the bad things for too long. If the really bother you the best you can do is to try and change them.

Racism exists...in all forms and in all communities. The Gay community, even with it's DIVERSITIES, has it's own issues with racism and gender identification. This doesn't reflect the community as a whole. I also think that perhaps we confuse ingnorance and stupidity with racism. It's just people being stupid and insensitive...i.e. "I have never been with a guy who has a geri curl before".

once again people..im not looking for a debate.....im just sharing my experience why i choose not to participate.....

its not a do or die thing people.....

how funny that dansa says that i am dwelling on the negative and then she tells me to make a change..well, n00b queer, what do you think im doing right now? i am engaging people in a discussion and sharing my perspective to gain change....

once again, i am not here to debate how i feel....im not here to have people tell me, "theres racism all over the place...get over it and force yourself to show your unity"....i have never had people tell me how i should feel about something in my whole experience hanging out on this website....

this attacking of my pesonal feelings aint helping me feel anymore united to this "supposed called gay community"....so, yeah....you all did your job...you've united the gay community even further....im not going to respond to this thread anymore...and to the two people (cbgor and ehuff) who have gone out of their way to marginalize my experiences with racism within the gay community i would recommmend you not engage me in further discussions on this subject (or any other for that matter)...if you cant respect my experiences its best we just stand our distance..

im through with this thread...goodday...


clarityedit.....
[Edited 6/14/05 11:38am]

sosgemini said:

"n00b queer?"

love ya, kee, but you're full of crap
[Edited 6/14/05 12:39pm]

sosgemini said:

SoS... i luv ya and i think you are blinded by your emotions. everyone has faced some adversity in their life.

Everyday i have to face some Anti-HIV stigma... i could sit in it and drive myself up the wall. Or i can pick myself up and keep going. i don't have the time to waste on other people's stupidity.

and no i will never understand what it is like to be a black person in America. nor do i act like i do. i just think sometimes people find it easier to be stuck in the problem.

cborgman said:

honestly--even though i've been out for about 2 months it doesn't mean that i was born last night. i've had gay friends waaaaay before i came out, so i already know what's goin on. i've been curious with all sorts of lifestyles for years to begin with so i could learn about what goes on, what it's like and what have you. if you were certainly lookin for a way to gain ideas so you'd be able to help make a change, perhaps you shouldnt've made such brash generalizations and posted on here with such a sour attitude to begin with. then you probably woulda gotten a better response from all of us and it woulda helped you out some, dont'cha think?

it's sad to hear about your experiences and such but gotdamn, man...


and gotdamn these edits too...
[Edited 6/14/05 13:04pm]

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

amen to that.

im being schooled about positivity from dansa?

there was a reason why i stated n00b queer and it has more to do with the above statement then it does dansa being queer or not....im sorry dansa, but i just cant take any message of positivity from you seriously.....please dont take offense to that...its just like someone taking serious my admiration of a wendy and lisa song...the bias is too great...


and once again folks...its not just the racism...its not just the nudity...its a collective of my experiences..years...years and years of going to this event and feeling this way..it didnt happen over night..it didnt happen because of one incident..

i have been pretty clear about this point...i have recieved many words of encouragement from people who feel intimidated or who just dont wanna deal with the drama of being attacked by cborj and ehuff...so i dont feel i have been overly simplistic or have made sweeping general statements...there are other people who feel the same way as i do.....

and i am not looking for symapthy from anybody..i've already pointed that i make my efforts and show my pride in my own way.....

the only thing that i find frustrating is that there are participants of this website who would rather support an event and brush aside a persons invididual experiences to show that support...and im not asking anyone to NOT SUPPORT THE EVENT..im simply sharing my perspective....so hold your symapthy cards cborg, ehuff and dansa...cause i never asked for it....and since its obvious two of you cant even respect an opposing view, like i said previously...lets not engage each other in any future discussions....

toddles..(now thats seriously my last post.. )

sos i pray for you