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PrintableSymbolina said: now ur switching ur statements around and my statements too. eye said very clearly that gays should have the same rights as a married couple; that these r human rights not rights just 4 str8 ppl. eye said that getting married in a religios wedding should not be allowed because being gay is not allowed in God's eyes - it's rebelious.
That's not what you said. You said However, eye don't think gay couples should be allowed 2 marry, but they should be allowed to have the rights that come along with having a partner (health benefits etc etc). these rights are human rights not rights for only straight married people. They should also be allowed 2 do a ceremony of some sort as long as they don't bring "a God" or "Gods" that don't support their beliefs (which is hard cuz all the major religions don't accept gay marriages) eye say make ur own god and he'll give u ur blessing LOL It's obvious your definition of "marriage" is a religious one and not a legal one and u r also now switching the statement of gays not wanting God's approval. U said that their r a lot of gays who "love God/Jesus" and r still gay. Now ur saying they dont want their god's approval that is just a legal thing they want.
There are plenty of Christian couples who live together and are not married. They obviously don't want God's approval, but they love God [Edited 2/15/05 0:57am] | |
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Symbolina said: Janfriend said: Where does it say in the Bible that marriage is only between a man and a woman or that gays can't marry? You can argue the act is unacceptable, but so is fornication between straight people. Being married makes sex between the two ok, so wouldn't being married make sex ok between gays? no one is saying that fornication between str8 ppl is okay. that sin if it's going on is a sin, but it is a sin that is not as noticeable as being gay on ur wedding day.... EX: u go 2 a wedding the couple is of the same sex, it's obvious their gay right??? meanwhile their is another couple, they are str8, fornication has been going on in their relationship, there is NOTHING 2 tell anyone that - the is a hideable situation, but when it's found out it is also not accepted by the church. So what is ur point? What's your point? I don't get it. Man has no business in your business. Are you saying because everybody doesn't know the straight couple is fornicating and as long as they don't tell anyone it's okay for them to get married in the Church? God knows what everyone is doing and it doesn't matter if a mortal can or cannot see your sin. You can't hide it from God As 4 the bible not saying gay marriage is wrong... that statement is not even worth responding 2.
Probably because you can't find a passage that says marriage is strictly between a man and a woman Also being married does make sex "okay" in the Christian/Jewish God's eyes
That wasn't my question. My question was Being married makes sex between the two (straight people) ok, so wouldn't being married make sex ok between gay? You didn't answer that [Edited 2/15/05 0:59am] | |
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Janfriend said:[quote] Symbolina said: Probably because you can't find a passage that says marriage is strictly between a man and a woman Genesis 2:24"Therefore shall a man leave his mother and father and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh." Matthew 19:4 (Jesus speaking) "...Have you not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female." (He then goes on to repeat Gen. 2:24) 1 Corinthians 7:38 "The wife is bound by the (marriage) law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord." I am not saying I am against a persons union, I am just giving reference to Bible scripture in response to the above question. God made these marriage rules for a reason only He fully knows. So now, I wonder if a state mandated marriage is allowed between a man and a man or a woman and a woman, are they still sinning? (Sin as the same as an unmarried heterosexual couple having relations.)   "I am the way, the truth and the life; No man cometh unto the father, but by me." - Jesus of Nazareth (John 14:6) | |
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1 Corinthians 7:38 "The wife is bound by the (marriage) law as
long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord." Well I can certainly interpret this to mean that she can marry a woman.  MyeternalgrattitudetoPhil&Val.Herman said "We want sweaty truckers at the truck stop! We want cigar puffing men that look like they wanna beat the living daylights out of us" Val"sporking is spooning with benefits" | |
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THE THING IS....
U CAN'T FIGHT THIS ON A RELIGIOUS LEVEL, U GUYS AREN'T COMPARING APPLES TO APPLES.. CHRISTIANS WILL NOTE... 1.BIBLE SAYS NO 2.MOST RELIGIOUS TRADITIONS SAY NO 3.IF U TAKE IT TO THE EXTREME, THERE WOULD BE NO PROCREATION (SO IT ISN'T NATURAL) GAYS AND LESBIANS WILL NOTE.. 1.IT'S NOT A RELIGIOUS THING.. 2.LOVE IS LOVE 3.WE DESERVE THE RIGHTS THAT "STRAIGHT FOLK" DO ETC SO.. ALTHOUGH, I AM ENJOYING THE THREAD..WHAT DO U DO? LOVE 2 ALL | |
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cough cough "bullshit" cough cough
I'm gay and I want children. I have many lesbian friends that are mothers. Big hole in that theory. MyeternalgrattitudetoPhil&Val.Herman said "We want sweaty truckers at the truck stop! We want cigar puffing men that look like they wanna beat the living daylights out of us" Val"sporking is spooning with benefits" | |
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MIGUELGOMEZ said: cough cough "bullshit" cough cough
I'm gay and I want children. I have many lesbian friends that are mothers. Big hole in that theory. MIGUEL, AGAIN, I AM NOT SAYING I AGREE WITH THAT, I AM JUST SAYING THAT IS WHAT I HEAR IN MY CIRCLES | |
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MIGUELGOMEZ said: 1 Corinthians 7:38 "The wife is bound by the (marriage) law as
long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord." Well I can certainly interpret this to mean that she can marry a woman. Even though I put it in bold, you missed the "Only in the Lord" part. The whole verse of Corinthians 7 is about marriage between a man and a woman, if you take time to read the context. Moreover, Corinthians was written by Paul, who previously spoke out against homosexuality in Romans 1:27. 1 Corinthians 7:2 "Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband." "I am the way, the truth and the life; No man cometh unto the father, but by me." - Jesus of Nazareth (John 14:6) | |
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Eternaldragon said:[quote] Janfriend said: Symbolina said: Probably because you can't find a passage that says marriage is strictly between a man and a woman Genesis 2:24"Therefore shall a man leave his mother and father and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh." Matthew 19:4 (Jesus speaking) "...Have you not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female." (He then goes on to repeat Gen. 2:24) 1 Corinthians 7:38 "The wife is bound by the (marriage) law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord." I am not saying I am against a persons union, I am just giving reference to Bible scripture in response to the above question. God made these marriage rules for a reason only He fully knows. So now, I wonder if a state mandated marriage is allowed between a man and a man or a woman and a woman, are they still sinning? (Sin as the same as an unmarried heterosexual couple having relations.) It's a waste of time to argue with people who say the bible doesn't say that gays cannot marry. They obviosly r not serious. eye refuse 2 post the verses up, u have good posts though | |
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SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: Symbolina said: eye agree with all that u said except people like me would get offended by seeing a gay couple be married by a church because OUR church (meaning all recognized denominations) don't believe that it is the teaching of OUR religion, so now u r pushing UR beliefs on US.... u c??? LOL (it's all so complicated ain't it?) as a matter a fact, not even non recognized christian denominations accept gay marriages (JW's, Mormons, etc) What "churches" r u talking about???? but u should 4 sure be completely equal in every single aspect that exists except when u try to diminish our religion by making sin seem acceptable/okay. eye sin all the time (eye mean alllll the time) but eye don't excuse my sin or try 2 make it okay. who am eye fooling? God? NOT! ONLY MYSELF, SO Y DO IT?  Unless you are looking for gay weddings so you have something to be offended about,you'll never be exposed to them. Nobody is diminishing anyone's beliefs. You would still be free to believe whatever you like.
There are churches in southern california that would hold a ceremony for a gay couple. I've been to a gay wedding before. There are churches who will embrace the gay community and promote faithfulness and monogomy within a committed relationship. The only reason this is a battle is because civil unions are not equal, and as we've seen in the last election, many states voted to ban even civil unions. You say we should be allowed a civil union, but others of your faith want to prevent us from having even that right. So long as the church wages war on us, we will fight for what's right. E-Q-U-A-L-I-T-Y. The church has no business or right telling anyone that they can or cannot get married, remember it's not the church that determines marriage, it's the state. what do you mean by "churches"? there are no denominations that accept gay marriages. of course u can have ceremonies that LOOK like weddings from a certain religion but that does not mean that it's accepted. Every denomination has a statement of faith and leaders who don't permit it | |
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Symbolina said: Eternaldragon said: Genesis 2:24"Therefore shall a man leave his mother and father and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh." Matthew 19:4 (Jesus speaking) "...Have you not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female." (He then goes on to repeat Gen. 2:24) 1 Corinthians 7:38 "The wife is bound by the (marriage) law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord." I am not saying I am against a persons union, I am just giving reference to Bible scripture in response to the above question. God made these marriage rules for a reason only He fully knows. So now, I wonder if a state mandated marriage is allowed between a man and a man or a woman and a woman, are they still sinning? (Sin as the same as an unmarried heterosexual couple having relations.) It's a waste of time to argue with people who say the bible doesn't say that gays cannot marry. They obviosly r not serious. eye refuse 2 post the verses up, u have good posts though  And you want us to be Christian like you because? | |
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Symbolina said: SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: Unless you are looking for gay weddings so you have something to be offended about,you'll never be exposed to them. Nobody is diminishing anyone's beliefs. You would still be free to believe whatever you like.
There are churches in southern california that would hold a ceremony for a gay couple. I've been to a gay wedding before. There are churches who will embrace the gay community and promote faithfulness and monogomy within a committed relationship. The only reason this is a battle is because civil unions are not equal, and as we've seen in the last election, many states voted to ban even civil unions. You say we should be allowed a civil union, but others of your faith want to prevent us from having even that right. So long as the church wages war on us, we will fight for what's right. E-Q-U-A-L-I-T-Y. The church has no business or right telling anyone that they can or cannot get married, remember it's not the church that determines marriage, it's the state. what do you mean by "churches"? there are no denominations that accept gay marriages. of course u can have ceremonies that LOOK like weddings from a certain religion but that does not mean that it's accepted. Every denomination has a statement of faith and leaders who don't permit it | |
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MIGUELGOMEZ said: Why is everyone concentrating on sex. I am gay, not because I sleep with men, but because my nature is to fall in love with one. I knew I was gay before I even had sex with a man. As a matter of fact I hadn't even gone through puberty yet.
Let's all agree to disagree. Both sides are getting pissed. I know I am. Imagine trying to have to justify your life, NOT LIFESTYLE, life. And no it's not my preference, it's my orientation. For those straight people on the thread, that think it's a choice ask yourselves if you could fall in love with someone of the same sex, not have sex with(anyone can do that), fall in love and want to share your life with someone of the same sex. If you can honestly think it's not against your nature, then I give. You're right. Oh, I didn't want to leave out my bisexual brothers and sisters, I don't believe that you are confused. I think comments like that are so disrespectful. I also don't believe that you chose that. You just chose to love whomever you fall in love with. Thank you, I had to vent. Miguel  "A Watcher scoffs at gravity!" | |
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Symbolina said: SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: Unless you are looking for gay weddings so you have something to be offended about,you'll never be exposed to them. Nobody is diminishing anyone's beliefs. You would still be free to believe whatever you like.
There are churches in southern california that would hold a ceremony for a gay couple. I've been to a gay wedding before. There are churches who will embrace the gay community and promote faithfulness and monogomy within a committed relationship. The only reason this is a battle is because civil unions are not equal, and as we've seen in the last election, many states voted to ban even civil unions. You say we should be allowed a civil union, but others of your faith want to prevent us from having even that right. So long as the church wages war on us, we will fight for what's right. E-Q-U-A-L-I-T-Y. The church has no business or right telling anyone that they can or cannot get married, remember it's not the church that determines marriage, it's the state. what do you mean by "churches"? there are no denominations that accept gay marriages. of course u can have ceremonies that LOOK like weddings from a certain religion but that does not mean that it's accepted. Every denomination has a statement of faith and leaders who don't permit it The Unitarians aren't Christian? The First United Church of Canada isn't Christian? It's true that denominations willing to marry gay couples and fully accept them are few and far between, but they do exist. I suggest you learn the truth about a subject before proclaiming your opinion as the absolute truth. "A Watcher scoffs at gravity!" | |
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meow85 said: Symbolina said: what do you mean by "churches"? there are no denominations that accept gay marriages. of course u can have ceremonies that LOOK like weddings from a certain religion but that does not mean that it's accepted. Every denomination has a statement of faith and leaders who don't permit it The Unitarians aren't Christian? The First United Church of Canada isn't Christian? It's true that denominations willing to marry gay couples and fully accept them are few and far between, but they do exist. I suggest you learn the truth about a subject before proclaiming your opinion as the absolute truth.  Watch out before she says Unitarians aren't true Christians.  | |
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TheOrgerFormerlyKnownAs said: meow85 said: The Unitarians aren't Christian? The First United Church of Canada isn't Christian? It's true that denominations willing to marry gay couples and fully accept them are few and far between, but they do exist. I suggest you learn the truth about a subject before proclaiming your opinion as the absolute truth. Watch out before she says Unitarians aren't true Christians. "A Watcher scoffs at gravity!" | |
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meow85 said: Symbolina said: what do you mean by "churches"? there are no denominations that accept gay marriages. of course u can have ceremonies that LOOK like weddings from a certain religion but that does not mean that it's accepted. Every denomination has a statement of faith and leaders who don't permit it The Unitarians aren't Christian? The First United Church of Canada isn't Christian? It's true that denominations willing to marry gay couples and fully accept them are few and far between, but they do exist. I suggest you learn the truth about a subject before proclaiming your opinion as the absolute truth. There is also the First Congregational Church in the U.S. that performs ceremonies for gays. They believe that wild and crazy notion that God judges you and no one else  Also, the Episcopal Church excepts gay members (who don't have to be celibate), but I'm not sure if they perform ceremonies | |
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Eternaldragon said: So now, I wonder if a state mandated marriage is allowed between a man and a man or a woman and a woman, are they still sinning? (Sin as the same as an unmarried heterosexual couple having relations.) That was my question. If gays are able to marry, then they wouldn't be sinning anymore right? I mean, perhaps the "lying with a man..." verse was because it was illegal for gays to marry and therefore they would be having sexual relations outside of marriage. Getting married would solve that Has anyone noticed the flaw in this whole argument? No where in the Bible does it mention women being with women as wrong, does it? | |
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| in Ecclesiology what u guys are talking about are CULTS. People who preach false doctrine trying to make it sound doctrine.
http://www.carm.org/cults/cultlist.htm http://www.carm.org/cults/cults.htm Now, eye'm not saying u cant be gay and Christian, u can. 4 instace Little Richard is Gay, but he says himself that a man was meant to lay down with eve not steve 
UR SIN doesn't make u non-christian as long as u recognize ur sin as sin and not try 2 xcuse it or make "okay". 2Ti 4:1 I charge [thee] therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 2Ti 4:5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make FULL PROOF of thy ministry. 2Ti 4:6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. [Edited 2/17/05 15:54pm] | |
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Symbolina said: in Ecclesiology what u guys are talking about are CULTS. People who preach false doctrine trying to make it sound doctrine.
http://www.carm.org/cults/cultlist.htm http://www.carm.org/cults/cults.htm Now, eye'm not saying u cant be gay and Christian, u can. 4 instace Little Richard is Gay, but he says himself that a man was meant to lay down with eve not steve
UR SIN doesn't make u non-christian as long as u recognize ur sin as sin and not try 2 xcuse it or make "okay". 2Ti 4:1 I charge [thee] therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 2Ti 4:5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make FULL PROOF of thy ministry. 2Ti 4:6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. [Edited 2/17/05 15:54pm] | |
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Symbolina said: in Ecclesiology what u guys are talking about are CULTS. People who preach false doctrine trying to make it sound doctrine.
http://www.carm.org/cults/cultlist.htm http://www.carm.org/cults/cults.htm Now, eye'm not saying u cant be gay and Christian, u can. 4 instace Little Richard is Gay, but he says himself that a man was meant to lay down with eve not steve
UR SIN doesn't make u non-christian as long as u recognize ur sin as sin and not try 2 xcuse it or make "okay". 2Ti 4:1 I charge [thee] therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 2Ti 4:5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make FULL PROOF of thy ministry. 2Ti 4:6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. [Edited 2/17/05 15:54pm]
So the definition of a cult is any church that doesn't follow or agree with you doctrines' completely?
I can't even begin to address the arrogance and ignorance that would be needed to genuinely believe that, I'm laughing so hard. Mods -snip if you want, you know I'm right on this one "A Watcher scoffs at gravity!" | |
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meow85 said: Symbolina said: in Ecclesiology what u guys are talking about are CULTS. People who preach false doctrine trying to make it sound doctrine.
http://www.carm.org/cults/cultlist.htm http://www.carm.org/cults/cults.htm Now, eye'm not saying u cant be gay and Christian, u can. 4 instace Little Richard is Gay, but he says himself that a man was meant to lay down with eve not steve
UR SIN doesn't make u non-christian as long as u recognize ur sin as sin and not try 2 xcuse it or make "okay". 2Ti 4:1 I charge [thee] therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 2Ti 4:5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make FULL PROOF of thy ministry. 2Ti 4:6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. [Edited 2/17/05 15:54pm]
So the definition of a cult is any church that doesn't follow or agree with you doctrines' completely?
I can't even begin to address the arrogance and ignorance that would be needed to genuinely believe that, I'm laughing so hard. Mods -snip if you want, you know I'm right on this one No, we have been forced in the last centruy or so to keep true true 2 our beliefs because cults have been coming out that approve of "new" and modern ways of thinking that go against the teachings that have been handed down since Christianity began. Now, there are so called denominations who claim christ as their leader or have a VERSION of Jesus and his teachings as their teachings that never existed before. ex: Isa, the muslim Jesus who hates Jews and Christians or the JW witness Jesus who is not God but is only the son and did not die on the cross, or the 7 day adventist Jesus who was really is the angel Michael and became man, or teachings like the mormons who are allowed 2 marry 10 different wives , OR in this particular discussion Gay Christians who want 2 make their sin acceptable and not a sin. thats why each church and denomination has a "statement of faith" because there are cults out there with NEW ideas and false teachings that use the name of Christ as a lure. | |
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Janfriend said: Eternaldragon said: So now, I wonder if a state mandated marriage is allowed between a man and a man or a woman and a woman, are they still sinning? (Sin as the same as an unmarried heterosexual couple having relations.) That was my question. If gays are able to marry, then they wouldn't be sinning anymore right? I mean, perhaps the "lying with a man..." verse was because it was illegal for gays to marry and therefore they would be having sexual relations outside of marriage. Getting married would solve that Has anyone noticed the flaw in this whole argument? No where in the Bible does it mention women being with women as wrong, does it?  That is a very good question.
Romans 1:26 "For this cause God gave them up into vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which was against nature:" (it then goes on to say men leaving the natural use of a woman...) 2 Timothy 3 says that these things will increase in the "last days" before Christ returns, but addresses men in those verses. I'm not sure that the Bible says it is a sin so much as it says it is unnatural. It also says God will judge these things, not us. I think that is a misconception among non-Christians. When someone points out these verses, it is a warning, not meant in hate. It is just pointing out that "Hey, God said these things." "I am the way, the truth and the life; No man cometh unto the father, but by me." - Jesus of Nazareth (John 14:6) | |
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Eternaldragon said: I'm not sure that the Bible says it is a sin so much as it says it is unnatural. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God’ (1 Corinthians 6:9–10). Hello? Sodom and Gomorrah... | |
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Symbolina said: Eternaldragon said: I'm not sure that the Bible says it is a sin so much as it says it is unnatural. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God’ (1 Corinthians 6:9–10). Hello? Sodom and Gomorrah... Sodom and Gomorrah were not cities of raving homosexuals as Christians believe. There were homosexual there, yes, but the sins of the people were much more than that | |
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There is a reason we have separation of Church and State | |
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Janfriend said: There is a reason we have separation of Church and State
The definition of church and state seperation has been changed. Our forefathers PRAYED to god, and looked for god for guidance when it came to our government and our laws. AND AS PROOF WE HAVE THEIR DOCUMENTS AND PERSONAL LETTERS DON'T WE??? =) | |
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Janfriend said: Symbolina said: Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God’ (1 Corinthians 6:9–10). Hello? Sodom and Gomorrah... Sodom and Gomorrah were not cities of raving homosexuals as Christians believe. There were homosexual there, yes, but the sins of the people were much more than that that's not the point, the point is that homosexuality is a sin. forget their other sins we're not talking about that here. | |
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Janfriend said: There is a reason we have separation of Church and State
Yes, to promote the free establishment of ANY religion by keeping the government out of it. It's ridiculous to think that no governement official has to be of no religion to be in government. People are in government, so religion will be in government, regardless. The Bible says lots of things are wrong, like drinking, stealing, lying, having sex outside marriage, etc. Most of those things are to help us, control the spread of disease and keep us healthy. We are all sinners and will be till we die. It's good to point out what God wrote but it is up to God to judge. "I am the way, the truth and the life; No man cometh unto the father, but by me." - Jesus of Nazareth (John 14:6) | |
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4 the record, eye don't know what eye would do without my gay hairdresser... | |
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