Janfriend said:

Depends on which god u believe in. r u saying ur god says it was okay 4 gays 2 marry?

TheOrgerFormerlyKnownAs said:

well if some of the gay community LOVE "Jesus/God" like you said, that means that they believe in the Jewish/Christian God and THAT god dissapproves of homosexual acts. That means that you are a believer in a particuler God who disapproves of ur acts (although he loves you the person) but that u choose not 2 follow the rules he gave.
[Edited 2/13/05 9:09am]

TheOrgerFormerlyKnownAs said:

On the show it came up when they were arguing.

nakedpianoplayer said:

It can't be a wedding meaning like a Christian wedding or from a church or of any religion that disapproves of gay marriages. It makes no sense. Have a ceremony or legally binding agreement that gives u the right to ur partners health insurance etc etc, but if a god disapproves of ur union why the heck r u going 2 want a ceremony with THAT god involved????

Symbolina said:

I REPEAT:

Many, MANY people who are gay/gayfriendly do not agree with YOUR interpretation of this issue. The Bible (and all other Holy books) are man's version of "God's word" and through thousands of years of interpretation has been tampered with by man.

endorphin74 said:

The King James was only tampered with once to bring it to an English version. The New Testament has been compared to the oldest copies found of the originals and found to be 99% accurate. These copies are on display in Israel.

Plus the fact that no Jewish scribe would dare to tamper with holy scripture. The Jewish culture were not only educated well but took pride in keeping God's word intact and accurate as possible. Down to counting each letter and each mark.

Your assumption that God's word was tampered with does not hold up to the facts.

Symbolina said:

endorphin74 said:

Well, if they believe the bible has been tampered with then they are not really believers are they? how can you believe in a god who lets HUMANS tamper with his message. Sounds 2 me like u r the one puting words in these "believers" mouth - ur interpretation of their interpretation?

Symbolina said:

Wow. Perfectly said.

Symbolina said:

Where does it say in the Bible that marriage is only between a man and a woman or that gays can't marry? You can argue the act is unacceptable, but so is fornication between straight people. Being married makes sex between the two ok, so wouldn't being married make sex ok between gays?

Symbolina said:

Some religions, including Catholic, believe the Bible is words of man inspired by God, but not the literal Word of God

I bet religious conservatives are losing their minds over this episode

Have they threatened a boycott against ABC yet?

Symbolina said:

Show me a human being on this earth that follows every rule that God has laid forth, and I'll give up being bisexual right now. Everyone and I repeat, everyone of us, is a sinner. Once the holier than thou folks can stop making my sin more than their sin and start loving instead of judging, then the world can be a better place.

On the actual topic of this thread, ABC really oughta be ashamed of themselves.

TheOrgerFormerlyKnownAs said:

I agree 100% and even though I "question" the gay lifestyle, I don't question the fact that you are loved by God and I should NOT judge U either. We all sin and fall short, I judge all on an individual basis!! If u are cool, u are cool I don't care who u share your sheets with..

MidnightFunk said:

and BTW, I am the KING OF SINAPLENTY so I have NO ROOM to Judge..
I am always lookin 4 the ladder

Why is everyone concentrating on sex. I am gay, not because I sleep with men, but because my nature is to fall in love with one. I knew I was gay before I even had sex with a man. As a matter of fact I hadn't even gone through puberty yet.

Let's all agree to disagree. Both sides are getting pissed. I know I am. Imagine trying to have to justify your life, NOT LIFESTYLE, life. And no it's not my preference, it's my orientation. For those straight people on the thread, that think it's a choice ask yourselves if you could fall in love with someone of the same sex, not have sex with(anyone can do that), fall in love and want to share your life with someone of the same sex. If you can honestly think it's not against your nature, then I give. You're right.

Oh, I didn't want to leave out my bisexual brothers and sisters, I don't believe that you are confused. I think comments like that are so disrespectful. I also don't believe that you chose that. You just chose to love whomever you fall in love with.

Thank you, I had to vent.

Miguel

TheOrgerFormerlyKnownAs said:

There's a big difference though. A wedding is to show dedication to a relationship to another human being - to gain God's approval. It's a ceremony for that alone, it's not a ceremony to cleanse u of the sins u commit in ur daily life.

Therefore when a hetrosexual couple gets married they are doing what is commanded of them when it comes to relationships/procreating. They are following that rule. They're not being judged of their daily sins. The ceremony has nothing to do with the other sins they commit every day. That ceremony is approved by God. However, what gay couples are doing is asking God 2 approve of their wedding which 2 him is a sin. u c the difference? ur asking god to approve of ur sin.

eye don't know how 2 explain it better, someone give me a hand if u get what eye'm trying 2 say LOL

Symbolina said:

I understand completely what you were trying to say.

MIGUELGOMEZ said:

Miguel,


please don't b mad at me.. I am enjoying this thread because it is helping me see things from your side. I am a christian and I am here to try and understand more of how you see things and hopefully 4 U 2 understand that christians dont all hate U.
When I watched the "wifeswap" show that night.. I really felt sooo bad for the lesbian woman...she did NOT deserve that and wanted to come to this board and let you all know that we don't all hate like the christian woman..
I have two sons and you know, one day one or both might come up to me and tell me THEY are gay. The more I can understand, the better so..If I say things like "who u share the sheets with" and things like that.. I mean NO offense.
In fact, I'd like to ask u more indepth questions,maybe by orgnote to help me understand how u feel.

MidnightFunk said:

I'm not mad at you. I'm just frustrated. Sex has a lot to do with being gay but it also has a lot to do with being straight. I wish that everytime certain religious groups attack us with video tapes of Gay Pride parades they don't ALSO show, Girls Gone Wild or better yet have someone go to Mardi Gras and show the straight side of that. I'm not attacking you I'm just trying to show you my side. You and I have a lot in common. We both get put down for living our lives. I believe in God and feel that he doesn't hate me. Especially since I'm not out hurting anyone. If you feel like org. noting me that's groovy.

Miguel

Symbolina said:

Absolutely correct, which is why all the religious hysteria over gay marriage is ludicrous.




Here's the rub. Marriage is a civil institution. The church ceremony is nothing more than window dressing. Icing on the cake if you will. For legal purposes, which is what gay americans are fighting for, the state is the one who issues the license, not the church. Without the license you cannot be considered "married" in the sense of gaining the rights and responsibilities as laid out by the state for 2 people who enter into a marriage contract. The state provides the certificate and the church the ceremony. Some people don't even believe in God and can get the same result with a justice of the peace. But just because they were not married in a church does not mean they aren't married does it?




We aren't asking God for anything. We are asking that the state recognize us as equal citizens. We are Americans, we pay taxes, we contribute, we are living our lives exactly the same way as our straight counterparts. Your religious beliefs are your beliefs. On the otherhand there are Christian churches that would not have issue with blessing the union of gay couples.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

That's my sis!!!!

MIGUELGOMEZ said:

now ur switching ur statements around and my statements too. eye said very clearly that gays should have the same rights as a married couple; that these r human rights not rights just 4 str8 ppl. eye said that getting married in a religios wedding should not be allowed because being gay is not allowed in God's eyes - it's rebelious.

and u r also now switching the statement of gays not wanting God's approval. U said that their r a lot of gays who "love God/Jesus" and r still gay. Now ur saying they dont want their god's approval that is just a legal thing they want.

Symbolina said:

Being gay must be allowed in God's eyes or he wouldn't have created us now would he?



A lot of gays isn't all gays. Not all gay people believe in God. We simply want what is ours rightfully as American citizens. Religious beliefs should not factor into it whatsoever. The best solution for this is for every couple, gay and straight, to have a civil union and each couple can have whatever religious service they want. Like I said, not all religious people believe gay=sin and there are churches out there that would sanction such commitments.

.
[Edited 2/14/05 16:06pm]

Janfriend said:

no one is saying that fornication between str8 ppl is okay. that sin if it's going on is a sin, but it is a sin that is not as noticeable as being gay on ur wedding day.... EX: u go 2 a wedding the couple is of the same sex, it's obvious their gay right??? meanwhile their is another couple, they are str8, fornication has been going on in their relationship, there is NOTHING 2 tell anyone that - the is a hideable situation, but when it's found out it is also not accepted by the church. So what is ur point?

As 4 the bible not saying gay marriage is wrong... that statement is not even worth responding 2.

Also being married does make sex "okay" in the Christian/Jewish God's eyes

Symbolina said:

Thankfully we aren't living under your god's Eyes. There is something called the constitution of the United States and the bill of rights and Christians don't have the right to shit all over it, despite what they believe. I reject completely any admonisions from the Bible that my core being is sinful. Don't buy it at all. But that is besides the point. Your moral compass and beliefs should not dicate how I am treated by the government. Currently the government is treating me and my community as second class citizens. We are supposed to be Equal and come hell or highwater, peoples beliefs in Christ, Allah, Jehovah, *insert whatever god you like here* will not stop our seeking to be treated as equals.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

eye agree with all that u said except people like me would get offended by seeing a gay couple be married by a church because OUR church (meaning all recognized denominations) don't believe that it is the teaching of OUR religion, so now u r pushing UR beliefs on US.... u c??? LOL (it's all so complicated ain't it?) as a matter a fact, not even non recognized christian denominations accept gay marriages (JW's, Mormons, etc) What "churches" r u talking about????

but u should 4 sure be completely equal in every single aspect that exists except when u try to diminish our religion by making sin seem acceptable/okay.

eye sin all the time (eye mean alllll the time) but eye don't excuse my sin or try 2 make it okay. who am eye fooling? God? NOT!
ONLY MYSELF, SO Y DO IT?

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

100% correct! if u read over our posts we r agreeing 110%
4rom a christian perspective it's called "free will"
4rom a legal/non religous perspective it's "whatever u think it's best for urself"

Symbolina said:

Unless you are looking for gay weddings so you have something to be offended about,you'll never be exposed to them. Nobody is diminishing anyone's beliefs. You would still be free to believe whatever you like.

There are churches in southern california that would hold a ceremony for a gay couple. I've been to a gay wedding before. There are churches who will embrace the gay community and promote faithfulness and monogomy within a committed relationship.

The only reason this is a battle is because civil unions are not equal, and as we've seen in the last election, many states voted to ban even civil unions. You say we should be allowed a civil union, but others of your faith want to prevent us from having even that right. So long as the church wages war on us, we will fight for what's right. E-Q-U-A-L-I-T-Y. The church has no business or right telling anyone that they can or cannot get married, remember it's not the church that determines marriage, it's the state.