Janfriend said:

Hold Up
Karamo did acknowledge his racist hatred by saying that he wanted to slit Landon's throat for no apparent reason.

psychodelicide said:

People, Karamo is not contradicting himself. In the beginning, he preferred his own race. He never said everyone else should date within their race and I don't remember him having an issue with Shavonda dating Shaun.

psychodelicide said:

Well Said.

MPLSRAINBOW said:

Personally, I don't see what the big fucking deal about Shavonda on Real World. I don't think that she totally disassociaties herself from the black race at all. If any thing, I think the the she disassociates herself with Sheniqua ghetto queen strereo type that america tends to have of black females. For so long, America tends to stereo type all young black female under 25 as being urban and listen to Rap Music which is false and racist.

As for dating men of different races, I don't see a big fucking problem with it. It is all a matter of preference. If a black man can date out of his race and no one objects, then why should a black women get flack for following her heart.
"If you can't be with the one you love honey love the one you with."
[Edited 2/2/05 20:15pm]

it's trite stuff like this that keeps me from watching emptee-vee anymore.

Maybe I should have worded it differently. I meant that whether you are "ghetto" or "refined" most whites will not think one is better or worse and therefore will not treat you any better regardless. We're all from the same "stock" so to speak. Please don't doubt the "all the same" comment. I experienced this shit just yesterday by not being given the same respect by a white person as they gave to another white person. It's the superior/inferior complex

Let me clarify...

*There's nothing wrong w/ dating outside your race. There's something very wrong w/ excluding your race - be it dating, socializing, etc.

*If Shavonda was raised by & around White people, I can understand her having a certain comfort around White people. BUT, fair or not, she's gonna have an interesting time in the world, period. Well, maybe not if she stays in San Diego, but you never know. People just need to be cool & chill out. When you exclude people on the basis of race or class, somebody @ some point WILL dig in yo ass...

*If Shavonda's feelings really have something to do w/ her dad, she needs to move past that shit & see the bigger picture. You can't block out all Black people b/c your dad is an asshole. While that may be the reason for her "hurt" it doesn't justify her actions.

*You can't claim to "not see color" yet purposely exclude ONLY Black people from your life Either you see it or you don't, make up your mind...

*Some Black people need to check themselves when it comes to equating Blackness w/ ignorance/improper english, etc. I can't believe the shit still happens in '05 but I get called out if I used a "big word" It's just dumb.

Bottom line: there's a lot of bool going on...

but I know some Karamos!

Janfriend said:

I really don't believe that every single white person thinks of you as inferior because you're black. You said yourself that your statement doesn't apply to all white people, but then you turn around and say that most whites think of black people as all the same; "from the same stock, so to speak".

And to that I say -bullshit.

When are minorities going to realize that playing the victim card doesn't help anything? Of course, there are probably always going to be white people that hate you or think of you as less than they are. It's a sad fact of life. But holding the attitude that "they all think we're inferior to them" as absolute truth and refusing to see anything beyond that only perpetuates racial tension. I see a similar pattern here in Canada regarding white people and First Nations people, and it's the same thing -bullshit. Both sides contribute equally to the shit that goes on, and it needs to stop.

Me? I'm Metis -a mix of white and Native blood. Where am I supposed to stand in all this? I'm I to assume that my white family members and white friends think I'm not as good as them because I'm not truly white? Am I also to think myself better than my Native friends and family members because I'm "better" than Native by way of my white blood? No, because I know better than that.

When are minorities going to realize that playing the victim card doesn't help anything? Of course, there are probably always going to be white people that hate you or think of you as less than they are. It's a sad fact of life. But holding the attitude that "they all think we're inferior to them" as absolute truth and refusing to see anything beyond that only perpetuates racial tension.

meow85 said:

"playing the victim card"?? While it's true that it doesn't help to believe absolutes about any group of people, your initial statement is bothersome to me. It's dismissive of those people of color who've experienced an overwhelming amount of racism against them. I know it's '05 but don't tell me you don't think it's possible for a person of color to have those experiences - and when the negative outweighs the positive & the scales are tipped, are they "playing the victim card" or seeing the world through THEIR experience??

Bottom line: if blanket statements aren't allowed, let's throw them ALL out. Not just the ones that point fingers at non-minorities.

Janfriend said:

I have to respectfully disagree with you on this. Karamo definitely had issues with Shavonda still calling Shaun and acting like they were still together, and with Shavonda hooking up with Landon. Karamo was definitely pissed; he even was bitching to Sarah about it. Then when Shaun asked Shavonda on the phone if she kissed anybody or had sex with Landon, did anybody notice how quiet Shavonda got? She definitely felt ashamed for what she did, because she knew it was wrong.
[Edited 2/6/05 6:52am]

Janfriend said:

I really don't believe that every single white person thinks of you as inferior because you're black. You said yourself that your statement doesn't apply to all white people, but then you turn around and say that most whites think of black people as all the same; "from the same stock, so to speak".

And to that I say -bullshit.

When are minorities going to realize that playing the victim card doesn't help anything? Of course, there are probably always going to be white people that hate you or think of you as less than they are. It's a sad fact of life. But holding the attitude that "they all think we're inferior to them" as absolute truth and refusing to see anything beyond that only perpetuates racial tension. I see a similar pattern here in Canada regarding white people and First Nations people, and it's the same thing -bullshit. Both sides contribute equally to the shit that goes on, and it needs to stop.

Me? I'm Metis -a mix of white and Native blood. Where am I supposed to stand in all this? I'm I to assume that my white family members and white friends think I'm not as good as them because I'm not truly white? Am I also to think myself better than my Native friends and family members because I'm "better" than Native by way of my white blood? No, because I know better than that.

It's like adopting a child, raping the child, sending it out to fend for itself, not apologizing, and then telling them not to not think you hate them

People died for Shavonda to be able to even date a white man. They died for her to be able to live in that house as an equal and not a servant. For her to dimiss her race is the same as blasphemy as far as I am concerned

I'm black and I think Karamo is a rascist.

meow85 said:

"playing the victim card"?? While it's true that it doesn't help to believe absolutes about any group of people, your initial statement is bothersome to me. It's dismissive of those people of color who've experienced an overwhelming amount of racism against them. I know it's '05 but don't tell me you don't think it's possible for a person of color to have those experiences - and when the negative outweighs the positive & the scales are tipped, are they "playing the victim card" or seeing the world through THEIR experience??

Bottom line: if blanket statements aren't allowed, let's throw them ALL out. Not just the ones that point fingers at non-minorities.

Apparantly, you are not understanding the difference between "most" and "all."I never said every single white person sees us as inferior.

lly easy for you to say "bullshit" to something that doesn't make sense to you.

ssibly understand my experience as an African-American anymore than I can understand your experience as a Metis Canadian. It wasn't too long ago that a black man in Jasper, TX was dragged by the neck to his death. There are counties in this country, where the majority of its citizens are black, that do not get adequate government funding for education as there white counterparts. There are clubs and organizations that Oprah Winfrey can't get into simply because she is black. She couldn't even buy her way in. Black children are the last children to be adopted by non-black families. They rather take a child from another country than take a black one in their own. The United States has an amount of hatred so embedded in its roots and foundation that no amount of "one love" propganda will overcome it. I have been ignored by whites. I have been call a nigger TO MY FACE. I have been spit at. I have seen my brothas harrassed and beaten by the police. I have had white men tell me I must be good in bed simply because I am black. I have been told my skin color makes me dirty. I have seen political and non-political racism. I am not playing the "victim card"

You may be "better than that" but it is different when you are black. We have been fucked over so much that we are fucking ourselves over. Alot (NOT ALL) of us have color issues, social issues, and cultural issues. We didn't create it,it came from somewhere else. It's like adopting a child, raping the child, sending it out to fend for itself, not apologizing, and then telling them not to not think you hate them.

People died for Shavonda to be able to even date a white man. They died for her to be able to live in that house as an equal and not a servant. For her to dimiss her race is the same as blasphemy as far as I am concerned

meow85 said:

I didn't say White America sees us as ni***rs. That is no where in my words. My comments were not referring to that. They were referring to the notion that Shavonda is somehow better than other blacks not in her social or economic class, when in fact she is not and whites will not see her as better. They really don't give a shit. I experience it everyday as a Black woman. Plus, I'm not speaking about individuals, I can't. I hope you are not making a sweeping generalization that white america loves black people. They (in general) don't. They let us know by the laws they pass and injustices that go on everyday to blacks and other persons of color. They do not see us as equals. You (assuming you're white) may, as an individual, love black people but the majority doesn't

meow85 said:

Apparantly, you are not understanding the difference between "most" and "all."I never said every single white person sees us as inferior. It's really easy for you to say "bullshit" to something that doesn't make sense to you. You couldn't possibly understand my experience as an African-American anymore than I can understand your experience as a Metis Canadian. It wasn't too long ago that a black man in Jasper, TX was dragged by the neck to his death. There are counties in this country, where the majority of its citizens are black, that do not get adequate government funding for education as there white counterparts. There are clubs and organizations that Oprah Winfrey can't get into simply because she is black. She couldn't even buy her way in. Black children are the last children to be adopted by non-black families. They rather take a child from another country than take a black one in their own. The United States has an amount of hatred so embedded in its roots and foundation that no amount of "one love" propganda will overcome it. I have been ignored by whites. I have been call a nigger TO MY FACE. I have been spit at. I have seen my brothas harrassed and beaten by the police. I have had white men tell me I must be good in bed simply because I am black. I have been told my skin color makes me dirty. I have seen political and non-political racism. I am not playing the "victim card"

You may be "better than that" but it is different when you are black. We have been fucked over so much that we are fucking ourselves over. Alot (NOT ALL) of us have color issues, social issues, and cultural issues. We didn't create it,it came from somewhere else. It's like adopting a child, raping the child, sending it out to fend for itself, not apologizing, and then telling them not to not think you hate them

People died for Shavonda to be able to even date a white man. They died for her to be able to live in that house as an equal and not a servant. For her to dimiss her race is the same as blasphemy as far as I am concerned
[Edited 2/7/05 1:13am]

it's trite stuff like this that keeps me from watching emptee-vee anymore.

Janfriend said:

You said that white people see black people as all the same. What does the phrasing "white people" imply if not all of them?

Contrary to what you apparently think, I do know what you're talking about.Care for a crash course in Canadian history and Native/White relations? Same shit, different colour. Orgnote me if you're interested in some informative links.
I couldn't agree with you more here.

Hotlegs said:

It doesn't matter if you buy into the stereotype or not because White America doesn't care. We are all the same to them, ghetto or refined. Her being different isn't going to change how the KKK feels about her or even non-extremists in the majority

Hotlegs said:

It doesn't matter if you buy into the stereotype or not because White America doesn't care. We are all the same to them, ghetto or refined. Her being different isn't going to change how the KKK feels about her or even non-extremists in the majority

MPLSRAINBOW said:

I don't know this show, but isn't it time to put race aside and treat people as humans?

Heavenly said:

Yes, when white people stop being discriminating.