JediMaster said:

It annoys me, too. They did that in The Chronicles of Riddick and it was a friggin' bother! Someone should die for that.

I read that it was supposedly done to ensure a PG-13 rating. Well, I want my scifi-action friggin' hardcore, OKAY?!

scififilmnerd said:

I must admit to having a perverse love/hate relationship with Alien 3. As a film in it's own
right, I actually really like it. It's got a great emotional depth to it and David Fincher managed
to give it a great feel and atmosphere. It's also much improved with seeing the 'directors
cut' in the Alien Quadrilogy box set. So as a stand alone movie, it gets a big thumbs up!

...However, as an 'Alien' movie it's fatally flawed. I remember when it was in post production
and the studio or warehouse where the prints were kept burned down, and there was a rumor
that Alien 3 might have perished in the fire. Oh, how I wish it had!

Despite it being (in my opinion) a very good film, it sent the Alien/Aliens story arc down a
road it should NEVER have gone. The whole movie is based on the consequences of a
sequence of events that COULDN'T HAPPEN! (yeah, I know it's fantasy anyway, but
'suspension of disbelief' and 'gaping plot holes/massive continuity flaws' are two very
different things). And that REALLY bugged me. As did killing off Hicks and Newt in the
title sequence. Plot wise it sucked, and it just came across like the actors couldn't or
wouldn't be involved rather than it being a valid part of the storyline. I didn't mind
Ripley dying at the end, but if you're gonna do that then you need to answer some basic
questions about where the aliens came from, or what they are, and how the 'company'
knew about them, and what they wanted them for. Ripley dying at the end only really
works properly if some of these questions are answered and her death finishes the story
arc properly, making the films into a genuine self contained 'Trilogy'.

OK rant over.

BorisFishpaw said:

BorisFishpaw said:

I know, where did the eggs come from? But accepting - "okay, they are there!" - and looking beyond that, the movie is actually quite brilliant.

BorisFishpaw said:

Yes, it does sorta take the point out of the happy nuclear family-ending of Aliens, BUT... I think it was validated by Ripley really reacting to their deaths. Sigourney played the loss brilliantly. And I really can't see any way of fitting either Hicks or Newt into the kind of story they wanted to do here. An action hero GI in a gothic horror flick? No, no, no. And how to get around the actress playing Newt having grown despite Newt being in suspended animation? Impossible. She had to never wake up.

BorisFishpaw said:

Sigourney said at the time, that she wanted Ripley to die because she'd heard about the then proposed adaptation of the Dark Horse Aliens Vs. Predator comic book - which actually was quite good. Sigourney felt such a movie would cheapen the Alien Saga, so she decided to head AvP off by agreeing to do another Alien movie. But she didn't like the prospect of a fourth one with Ripley waking up and warning "alien!" one more time, so she wanted out of the franchise and if they did any more, they'd have to do so without her.

Of course, "never say never again". She accepted Alien Resurrection because AvP hadn't happened and she thought the movie had something relevant to say about the cloning-issue which was making headlines at the time because of the cloned sheep, Dolly. And she said she wouldn't mind directing an Alien movie herself down the line and the movie she'd like to direct would be the one where they go to the homeworld of the aliens, discovering their origins.

So the answers you would have liked, Boris... Well, AvP answers how the Company knew of the aliens to start with, which I -like Jedi - think is actually neat. As for the origins of the Aliens, the answer may yet come, unless of course, James Cameron and Ridley Scott actually DO decide to take the franchise in a brand new direction by starting fresh.
[This message was edited Wed Aug 18 17:01:36 2004 by scififilmnerd]

Great stuff Boris and scifi!

bkw said:

What about EWM? He said -- and I quote -- "The characters sucked."

2the9s said:

I was very impressed with that in depth breakdown too but I was disspointed that he didnt back-up his critique of the film by mentioning that "everyone he spoke to thought it sucked too".

bkw said:

LMAO! At least he watched it. Usually he has opinions on things he doesn't see/read!

2the9s said:

2the9s said:

Well, I don't know yet if he's right about the characters in AvP sucking, but they certainly did in Alien Resurrection. Like, the General, he should have been played like a Grand Moff Tarkin or something. Instead they played him for comedy. And don't get me started on the pirates. Who cared whether they lived or died? I'm only sorry the worst of them actually survived. And Winona Ryder was too squeaky clean for the Alien Universe. The only characters in that movie that I actually cared just a little about was the guy who had an alien gestating inside of him - the poor thing - and the Ripley clone.

And the guy who wrote that drivel is writing the Astonishing X-Men now? What is the world coming to?

scififilmnerd said:

Even with those flaws I quite like Ressurrection though. It looks great and I have alot of sympathy for the Ripley clone. It's a good film but not up there with the first two which are classics.

bkw said:

That's exactly why I kind of like it, too.

But the Alien Queen going from laying eggs to giving birth halfways through - just because it suited the plot - that's just ridiculous. It either inherited a human reproduction system or it didn't. They can't have it both ways. Its just too much to swallow.
[This message was edited Wed Aug 18 17:28:28 2004 by scififilmnerd]

scififilmnerd said:

I also think it does a great job on the subject of the perils of cloning. It really is both heart and stomach wrenching when Ripley discovers all those horrible failed clones. You can really feel her pain and fury.

That is one great scene!

scififilmnerd said:

Yes, that was a bit ridiculous and is one of the several inplausabilities that prevent the film from being great. I think the half alien/human is great though and funny enough, as grotesque as it is, also generates some sympathy. Odd as it seems.


.
[This message was edited Wed Aug 18 17:32:48 2004 by bkw]

scififilmnerd said:

T2 was a corny "boy and his dog" story. It was ridiculous.

bkw said:

It is. That scene is certainly a redeeming factor. I also felt pity for the baby when it got sucked out the window into space. In fact, I felt more sorry for the monster than for any of the human characters that died.

NO MATTER WHO WINS WE LOSE!!!!!

scififilmnerd said:

I agree, see my post above.

squirrelscientist said:

Yeah, we lose our money.

EvilWhiteMale said:

That's one way to look at it. I see it as being more like The Abyss - a movie with a strong message against nuclear weapons. It certainly touches a nerve with me, having grown up in the seventies and eighties were the nuclear threat made people a lot more fearful of nuclear armageddon than anyone are today. We - caught between America and Russia during the Cold War - were shown educational movies at school about what to do if the bombs fell. I had several nightmares about nuclear armageddon when I was a teen. Horrible nightmares. And I take it James Cameron did too. The Judgment Day sequence in T2 blew my mind when I first saw it at the theaters. In fact, I don't think there was a dry eye in there. It was powerful, powerful stuff.

And the scene afterwards were Linda Hamilton goes all terminator on the black guy - understandable and also quite powerful.
[This message was edited Wed Aug 18 17:45:23 2004 by scififilmnerd]

Slightly off topic.... (well we are discussing dodgy sequels/tie ins)

I just read what the basic plot line is for Jurassic Park 4!
Now I knew they were planning a new direction for it, but WTF!!!

If you're interested, head over to AICN and check it out for yourself
http://www.aintitcool.com...i?id=18166
(don't say I didn't warn you... I admire the audacity of doing something so left field,
but good grief charlie brown... I didn't know whether to laugh or cry)



Oh, and while I'm doing my 'Movie News' bit...

I heard that George Lucas has made all ILM employees sign a new non-disclosure contract
not to talk about Star Wars Episodes VII, VIII & IX. Hmmm, getting people to sign a
gagging order on movies that aren't gonna get made anyway!?!?! (what could that mean?)

(fingers crossed!)
[This message was edited Wed Aug 18 17:48:37 2004 by BorisFishpaw]

BorisFishpaw said:

It means good news, is what it does!

"Jurassic Park 4"?! I ain't even seen the second. Didn't know there was a third. I absolutely hated the first one. The kids annoyed the hell outta me with their screaming and their stupidity. I would have loved to see them die!

scififilmnerd said:

Horrible story and horrible characters. T2 did well because it introduced lots of new special effects, was full of action, and had Arnold back, playing his biggest role (only a sissy version). The film annoyed me.

BorisFishpaw said:

As long as he doesn't fuck them up like he did Episodes 1 and 2.

EvilWhiteMale said:

Yes, Arnold playing "a good Terminator" did also strike me as being lame, initially. Arnold becomes a family man and don't wanna do nah-nah rough no more.

But like with the eggs in Alien3... "Okay, so he's a good Terminator." You can look beyond that and let yourself be entertained.

scififilmnerd said:

I liked Terminator 2. Not as much as the original one, but it wasn't the "good terminator" that bothered me. It was the ham-handed overbearing anti-war sentiment that Cameron drove into the ground. Yeah, I get that war is bad. I don't need it spelled out over and again. Does anyone else think the effects in it don't seem nearly as good in retrospect as they did at the time of release?

RipHer2Shreds said:

scififilmnerd said:

Yeah, but nearly all special effects are like that.

Have a look at the first Star Wars film.

bkw said:

Hey, 11 years later and I'm still impressed with the Jurassic Park dinos.

scififilmnerd said:

i didn't want to dumb it down for anyone