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Thread started 05/26/04 3:30pm

SquarePeg

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NY Times: Madonna's new self, a mix of her old ones

http://www.nytimes.com/20...6MADO.html

May 26, 2004
POP REVIEW
Madonna's Latest Self, a Mix of Her Old Ones
By KELEFA SANNEH

OS ANGELES, May 25 — Madonna calls her new traveling show the Re-Invention World Tour, and, if anything, the name seems a bit too obvious. (You don't see John Kerry crisscrossing the country on a tour called Lots of Speeches.) For more than two decades she has stayed in the spotlight by shunning it every year or two, retreating to remake herself and then returning anew.

When you imagine Madonna, you don't see a single image but a time-lapse photograph, with one persona melting and warping into the next. It's an open-ended process, and when she's at her brilliant best, it's easy to believe that she could keep reinventing herself forever.

But where do those old selves go? That's what Madonna tried to figure out at the Great Western Forum in Inglewood, Calif., on Monday night, when she played the first date of a tour that's scheduled to end in Lisbon in mid-September. (Her six-night stand at Madison Square Garden begins June 16.) This was a dense, dizzying, often incoherent, sometimes exhilarating night, starring a great performer who often found herself shadowboxing with her own past lives.

Madonna's last album, "American Life" (Warner Brothers/Maverick), wasn't a big success, so this is in some small sense a comeback tour. Her seemingly happy marriage to Guy Ritchie, her new career writing children's books, her diminishing interest in sexual provocation: all of this may make Madonna happy, but it doesn't keep her fans salivating. So her new tour is designed to remind them why they loved her in the first place.

The night began with an ominous recitation from the Book of Revelation, and then Madonna emerged in a sparkly bustier for "Vogue," a tribute to New York night life that now sounds more like the soundtrack to an instructional Pilates video. "Strike a pose," Madonna sang, and then she did, supporting herself on her forearms while her booted and stockinged feet kicked the sky.

Madonna's old infatuation with decadence has largely given way to an obsession with physical and mental health: her Web site, Madonna.com, reports that she requires "25 cases of kabbalah water provided backstage nightly," and she paid cheerful but earnest tribute to her new favorite spiritual beliefs throughout the show: near the end she sang "Papa Don't Preach" while wearing a T-shirt that read "Kabbalists Do It Better."

This meant that she had to find ways to reinterpret some of her older songs. Sometimes she did it gracefully, as when she sang a stripped-down "Like a Prayer" while Hebrew letters on the screen above her gave way to images of a black gospel chorus. And sometimes she did it clumsily: during "Material Girl" she made her famous (and complicated) declaration — " 'Cause we are living in a material world, and I am a material girl" — and couldn't resist adding, "But not really!"

Madonna's clashing identities collided brilliantly during the dazzling second act, a military dream sequence that evoked a world of panic and confusion. It started with "American Life," the electro-pop title track from the album, newly pumped up with a roaring guitar riff. She emerged in fatigues and a beret, backed by a troupe of dancers dressed as soldiers and religious figures, including a cardinal and a woman dressed in a spectacularly self-defeating garment best described as a micro-mini-burka.

By song's end the soldiers had stripped the faithful to their shorts and T-shirts, but the military drills continued, with Madonna acting the part of sergeant. There was a spine-tinglingly cynical version of "Express Yourself": as she sang, "What you need is a big, strong hand/To lift you to your higher ground," she raised a rifle above her head.

"Burning Up," a seemingly innocuous club classic from her first album, was even nastier. As Madonna, still wearing her fatigues, sang the refrain — "I'm burning up, burning up for your love" — static on the screens above was replaced by scrambled camcorder images. War and sex and videotape: it was impossible not to think of Abu Ghraib, though she never made the connection explicit. "Unlike the others I'd do anything/I'm not the same, I have no shame/I'm on fire," she sang, evoking a different sort of warfare.

There were times when Madonna seemed somehow oppressed by the weight of all her old selves, times when it seemed that she just wanted to wipe the slate clean and start over, as a straightforward singer-songwriter. This confessionalist urge marred the "American Life" album, and it marred the middle part of this concert too. There's something really depressing about watching Madonna present a video of children from around the world (it included a plug for Spirituality for Kids, a cabala-inspired organization) while singing John Lennon's "Imagine."

Ever since 9/11 "Imagine" has been everywhere, and it's probably time for singers to give that chestnut a break or at the very least to stop treating it as a high-minded protest song. When Madonna sang, "I hope someday you'll join us, and the world will live as one," she sounded vaguely presumptuous. What does us mean, coming from someone like Madonna? Pop stars? Americans? Britons? Children's-book authors? And who exactly is you?

In other words, Madonna is far too slippery — and far too savvy — for this sort of faux-naïve sentimentalism. That's precisely why people love her. Having created all those old selves, she can't now disown them, she can only play with them.

And during the concert's exuberant final act, that's what she did. The stage was given over to a bagpiper and a drum corps, and Madonna and her dancers emerged in matching kilts, racing through a handful of old favorites: "Get Into the Groove," enhanced with video clips from Missy Elliott; a nostalgic singalong on "Crazy for You"; a galloping tribal remix of "Music." When it was all over a screen covered the stage, emblazoned with the words, "Reinvent Yourself" — advice, perhaps, from one Madonna to another.
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Reply #1 posted 05/26/04 3:42pm

Byron

"she paid cheerful but earnest tribute to her new favorite spiritual beliefs throughout the show: near the end she sang "Papa Don't Preach" while wearing a T-shirt that read "Kabbalists Do It Better."

You know, if Prince wore a t-shirt that said "JW's Do It Better", he would have been crucified on this site. I wonder how Madonna's fans take her insertion of her spiritual beliefs into her shows?
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Reply #2 posted 05/26/04 3:52pm

DorothyParkerW
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Byron said:

"she paid cheerful but earnest tribute to her new favorite spiritual beliefs throughout the show: near the end she sang "Papa Don't Preach" while wearing a T-shirt that read "Kabbalists Do It Better."

You know, if Prince wore a t-shirt that said "JW's Do It Better", he would have been crucified on this site. I wonder how Madonna's fans take her insertion of her spiritual beliefs into her shows?



Amen to That!!!! I was thinking the same thing while reading this article. It seems as though Madonna is as vocal about her beliefs as Prince. Where is the outcry?
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Reply #3 posted 05/26/04 3:56pm

SassyBritches

DorothyParkerWasCool said:

Byron said:

"she paid cheerful but earnest tribute to her new favorite spiritual beliefs throughout the show: near the end she sang "Papa Don't Preach" while wearing a T-shirt that read "Kabbalists Do It Better."

You know, if Prince wore a t-shirt that said "JW's Do It Better", he would have been crucified on this site. I wonder how Madonna's fans take her insertion of her spiritual beliefs into her shows?



Amen to That!!!! I was thinking the same thing while reading this article. It seems as though Madonna is as vocal about her beliefs as Prince. Where is the outcry?

prince fans, in general, are a pain in the ass. that's the difference. just look around this site, lol. it is practically impossible to please most of the peeps. always some kinds of arguments and insults over the slightest thing. maybe madonna's fans just want to be entertained and have a good time.
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Reply #4 posted 05/26/04 3:57pm

DorothyParkerW
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SassyBritches said:

DorothyParkerWasCool said:




Amen to That!!!! I was thinking the same thing while reading this article. It seems as though Madonna is as vocal about her beliefs as Prince. Where is the outcry?

prince fans, in general, are a pain in the ass. that's the difference. just look around this site, lol. it is practically impossible to please most of the peeps. always some kinds of arguments and insults over the slightest thing. maybe madonna's fans just want to be entertained and have a good time.



I agree, some Prince fans can be major assholes.
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Reply #5 posted 05/26/04 4:28pm

estelle1981

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Madonna, Prince, whoever....I don't want to go to a concert to be preached to, not after I had to pay to get in. I'll go to church and drop a dollar in the collection plate if I want to hear about religious matters. Church has good, free admission. In church, not only do you get a show with a message and music, but a snack inbetween for whatever change you have in your pocket. I hate when anyone, celebrity or not, pushes anything on me. Whether it be religion or a taco, if I don't want it; I don't want it. I go to a concert to dance to the dance tracks, rock to the rock tunes, and cry to the sappy ballads. If I wanted to see images of starving people, I can stay home and watch the news and tons of those annoying religion programs. That's like going to a nightclub and hearing the news of the day after dancing to Usher. If they want to be politicians, run for office (shoot, Arnold did it). If they want to talk about religion, become ordained and buy a church. I don't want to hear or see that nonsense when I pay money to go to a concert.
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Reply #6 posted 05/26/04 4:32pm

SassyBritches

estelle1981 said:

Madonna, Prince, whoever....I don't want to go to a concert to be preached to, not after I had to pay to get in. I'll go to church and drop a dollar in the collection plate if I want to hear about religious matters. Church has good, free admission. In church, not only do you get a show with a message and music, but a snack inbetween for whatever change you have in your pocket. I hate when anyone, celebrity or not, pushes anything on me. Whether it be religion or a taco, if I don't want it; I don't want it. I go to a concert to dance to the dance tracks, rock to the rock tunes, and cry to the sappy ballads. If I wanted to see images of starving people, I can stay home and watch the news and tons of those annoying religion programs. That's like going to a nightclub and hearing the news of the day after dancing to Usher. If they want to be politicians, run for office (shoot, Arnold did it). If they want to talk about religion, become ordained and buy a church. I don't want to hear or see that nonsense when I pay money to go to a concert.

so...performers, artists, entertainers...they shouldn't have a world view? and if they do have a world view, they shouldn't share it with the same people who read their interviews? i don't get it.
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Reply #7 posted 05/26/04 4:32pm

purplegypsy

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This article prompted me to post this in the politics/religon thread...

http://www.prince.org/msg/105/95844
Let the rain come down...17 days....
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Reply #8 posted 05/26/04 4:49pm

estelle1981

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SassyBritches said:
so...performers, artists, entertainers...they shouldn't have a world view? and if they do have a world view, they shouldn't share it with the same people who read their interviews? i don't get it.


If I go to a concert to hear songs that have nothing to do with the artists' religion, than I don't want to hear about it during that show. Now, if they do interviews, they can talk about how they are originally from the planet Nebula 20; I don't care. But, I expect that from an interview, because that's them talking about themselves. A concert is them singing songs and unless that song was written about that specific subject, I don't really want to be bothered with it. The old expression, "There is a time and a place for everything" comes to mind. If a group of people are talking about going on a cruise and someone starts talking about religion, that sounds like that person is trying to push his/her belief on others and that's not cool. If I want to know about it, a celebrity only has to mention it once to me. If it interests me, I'll research it. I'm tired of hearing about Kabbalah and Jehovah's Witness from these two everytime they open their mouths. They only had to mention it once. Curiosity would have done the rest. smile
[This message was edited Wed May 26 9:50:54 2004 by estelle1981]
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Reply #9 posted 05/26/04 4:50pm

jtgillia

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All songs should only be about fun, dancing, music, and sex. Anything more serious will cause major public outcry with Prince fans....

-sarcasm edit-
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Reply #10 posted 05/26/04 4:50pm

JediMaster

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SassyBritches said:

estelle1981 said:

Madonna, Prince, whoever....I don't want to go to a concert to be preached to, not after I had to pay to get in. I'll go to church and drop a dollar in the collection plate if I want to hear about religious matters. Church has good, free admission. In church, not only do you get a show with a message and music, but a snack inbetween for whatever change you have in your pocket. I hate when anyone, celebrity or not, pushes anything on me. Whether it be religion or a taco, if I don't want it; I don't want it. I go to a concert to dance to the dance tracks, rock to the rock tunes, and cry to the sappy ballads. If I wanted to see images of starving people, I can stay home and watch the news and tons of those annoying religion programs. That's like going to a nightclub and hearing the news of the day after dancing to Usher. If they want to be politicians, run for office (shoot, Arnold did it). If they want to talk about religion, become ordained and buy a church. I don't want to hear or see that nonsense when I pay money to go to a concert.

so...performers, artists, entertainers...they shouldn't have a world view? and if they do have a world view, they shouldn't share it with the same people who read their interviews? i don't get it.


I completely agree, Sassy. The thing some folks forget is that these entertainers are also artists. By its very definition, art is self-expression. If you are looking for mindless entertainment, then perhaps Britney is more your style. Personally, I prefer artists who provoke thought, as well as entertain. I don't have to agree with everything they say (in fact, with some of my very favorites I often disagree), but I appreciate them putting a bit of themselves into what they do.
jedi

Do not hurry yourself in your spirit to become offended, for the taking of offense is what rests in the bosom of the stupid ones. (Ecclesiastes 7:9)
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Reply #11 posted 05/26/04 4:55pm

JediMaster

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estelle1981 said:

SassyBritches said:
so...performers, artists, entertainers...they shouldn't have a world view? and if they do have a world view, they shouldn't share it with the same people who read their interviews? i don't get it.


If I go to a concert to hear songs that have nothing to do with the artists' religion, than I don't want to hear about it during that show. Now, if they do interviews, they can talk about how they are originally from the planet Nebula 20; I don't care. But, I expect that from an interview, because that's them talking about themselves. A concert is them singing songs and unless that song was written about that specific subject, I don't really want to be bothered with it. The old expression, "There is a time and a place for everything" comes to mind. If a group of people are talking about going on a cruise and someone starts talking about religion, that sounds like that person is trying to push his/her belief on others and that's not cool. If I want to know about it, a celebrity only has to mention it once to me. If it interests me, I'll research it. I'm tired of hearing about Kabbalah and Jehovah's Witness from these two everytime they open their mouths. They only had to mention it once. Curiosity would have done the rest. smile
[This message was edited Wed May 26 9:50:54 2004 by estelle1981]


But its a part of who they are, and its what gives them inspiration. No one is forcing you to believe like they do. They are just expressing themselves.

I'm not a JW, and I'm not a Kabbalist, but I'm cool with these two being what they are. They've ALWAYS expressed their spiritual views in their music, the only difference is that they now embrace a specific spiritual path. That is the natural conclusion to a lifetime of searching, which both of these artists have done. If it bothers you that much, then perhaps its time to move on to other artists, who are more in line with your views, or those that are just about dancing and singing without substance. Its your choice, of course.
jedi

Do not hurry yourself in your spirit to become offended, for the taking of offense is what rests in the bosom of the stupid ones. (Ecclesiastes 7:9)
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Reply #12 posted 05/26/04 4:56pm

JediMaster

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Byron said:

"she paid cheerful but earnest tribute to her new favorite spiritual beliefs throughout the show: near the end she sang "Papa Don't Preach" while wearing a T-shirt that read "Kabbalists Do It Better."

You know, if Prince wore a t-shirt that said "JW's Do It Better", he would have been crucified on this site. I wonder how Madonna's fans take her insertion of her spiritual beliefs into her shows?


Amen to that. Seems like Maddy's overall fanbase is a bit more tolerant.
jedi

Do not hurry yourself in your spirit to become offended, for the taking of offense is what rests in the bosom of the stupid ones. (Ecclesiastes 7:9)
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Reply #13 posted 05/26/04 4:57pm

SassyBritches

estelle1981 said:

SassyBritches said:
so...performers, artists, entertainers...they shouldn't have a world view? and if they do have a world view, they shouldn't share it with the same people who read their interviews? i don't get it.


If I go to a concert to hear songs that have nothing to do with the artists' religion, than I don't want to hear about it during that show. Now, if they do interviews, they can talk about how they are originally from the planet Nebula 20; I don't care. But, I expect that from an interview, because that's them talking about themselves. A concert is them singing songs and unless that song was written about that specific subject, I don't really want to be bothered with it. The old expression, "There is a time and a place for everything" comes to mind. If a group of people are talking about going on a cruise and someone starts talking about religion, that sounds like that person is trying to push his/her belief on others and that's not cool. If I want to know about it, a celebrity only has to mention it once to me. If it interests me, I'll research it. I'm tired of hearing about Kabbalah and Jehovah's Witness from these two everytime they open their mouths. They only had to mention it once. Curiosity would have done the rest. smile
[This message was edited Wed May 26 9:50:54 2004 by estelle1981]

regardless of where the performer is speaking, or through which medium, they will be expressing their current thoughts. i am not a kabbalist but i can respect madonna for incorporating he beliefs into HER performance. at the end of the day, the show is about her...not you or me. this particular tour is specifically about her 're-invention', her new life. why shouldn't kabbalah be referenced? i think you did the best thing by sitting this tour out. you aren't interested in anything she's doing so, yeah, it makes sense to skip the show.
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Reply #14 posted 05/26/04 5:09pm

estelle1981

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jtgillia said:
All songs should only be about fun, dancing, music, and sex. Anything more serious will cause major public outcry with Prince fans....

-sarcasm edit-


lol You must have missed my post in a different thread. When I go to see Prince in June, he better stick to the topic of the song. I will be putting some nice pointy rocks in my purse and I have a pretty good aim. "Purple Rain" had better not be interuppted by some JW shit. I've learned about every religion my entire life and it's soo man-made that I find it to be quite disturbing now. God is faith and that's alot older than Kabbalah and JW. Now, if it's a religious song, I don't really care, just soo long as it's the song and not the song and some preaching added in. I don't want to have a flashback of the Jim and Tammy Faye Baker days. NOOOOO! disbelief
I don't care if Prince talks about the current war in Sign 'O The Times and Madonna can talk about it all concert long in American Life, because that's what the songs' topics are centered around. Stick to the script...I already had to deal with a professor who constantly got off topic every class period and started "chasing rabbits"...it just annoys the hell out of me.
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Reply #15 posted 05/26/04 5:28pm

estelle1981

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SassyBritches said:
regardless of where the performer is speaking, or through which medium, they will be expressing their current thoughts. i am not a kabbalist but i can respect madonna for incorporating he beliefs into HER performance. at the end of the day, the show is about her...not you or me. this particular tour is specifically about her 're-invention', her new life. why shouldn't kabbalah be referenced? i think you did the best thing by sitting this tour out. you aren't interested in anything she's doing so, yeah, it makes sense to skip the show.


When did I say that I didn't want to learn about an artists' current lifestyle? I like watching them do interviews, that's when I get caught up with what they have been doing. What I said is that if it doesn't go with the song, don't put it in, because that's preaching. If the Kabbalah shirt goes with the topic being expressed in the song, than I don't care, but if she's singing "Vogue", what does Kabbalah have to do with the topic of that song? Nothing. I don't care that she's singing "Imagine" and has graphic images associated with it, because that was what the song was centered on when it was written...I had a problem with Madonna using these images after reading all the demands that she has for her tour. She's talking about poverty, but she can't seem to live without the Kabbalah water? Poor people live without alot of things, she should be able to do the same, since she wants to put poverty on display. They can speak their mind during their interviews, since that's the whole point in doing an interview. Why would you think that I am disrespecting Madonna, because I don't want to hear about her current beliefs? I don't want to hear about my own mom's current beliefs, unless I ask about them or the subject comes up. She's the one saying this show is for her fans....or maybe that's some other artist that said that. If Kabbalah goes along with the topic of the song, like "Like A Prayer", I don't see why she shouldn't reference it. It would make sense to do so. I would have enjoyed the show, because it sounds like fun. In fact, this is all just my opinion of Prince's and Madonna's current and constant mentioning of their religions, not about the concerts themselves. From the review I read, all the religious references are on the songs that they are supposed to be on.
[This message was edited Wed May 26 10:30:35 2004 by estelle1981]
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Reply #16 posted 05/26/04 5:37pm

SassyBritches

estelle1981 said:

SassyBritches said:
regardless of where the performer is speaking, or through which medium, they will be expressing their current thoughts. i am not a kabbalist but i can respect madonna for incorporating he beliefs into HER performance. at the end of the day, the show is about her...not you or me. this particular tour is specifically about her 're-invention', her new life. why shouldn't kabbalah be referenced? i think you did the best thing by sitting this tour out. you aren't interested in anything she's doing so, yeah, it makes sense to skip the show.


When did I say that I didn't want to learn about an artists' current lifestyle? I like watching them do interviews, that's when I get caught up with what they have been doing. What I said is that if it doesn't go with the song, don't put it in, because that's preaching. If the Kabbalah shirt goes with the topic being expressed in the song, than I don't care, but if she's singing "Vogue", what does Kabbalah have to do with the topic of that song? Nothing. I don't care that she's singing "Imagine" and has graphic images associated with it, because that was what the song was centered on when it was written...I had a problem with Madonna using these images after reading all the demands that she has for her tour. She's talking about poverty, but she can't seem to live without the Kabbalah water? Poor people live without alot of things, she should be able to do the same, since she wants to put poverty on display. They can speak their mind during their interviews, since that the whole point in doing an interview. Why would you think that I am disrespecting Madonna, because I don't want to hear about her current beliefs? I don't want to hear about my own moms current beliefs, unless I ask about them or the subject comes up. She's the one saying this show is for her fans....or maybe that's some other artist that said that. If Kabbalah goes along with the topic of the song, like "Like A Prayer", I don't see why she shouldn't reference it. It would make sense to do so. I would have enjoyed the show, because it sounds like fun. In fact, this is all just my opinion of Prince's and Madonna's current and constant mentioning of their religions, not about the concerts themselves. From the review I read, all the religious references are on the songs that they are supposed to be on.

boy, you are really touchy. i was agreeing with the fact that you're sitting this one out. you don't like what she's doing on this tour so you're not going. no need to get all sorts of salty. and besides that, i think you missed my point. i recognize that you enjoy reading interviews and getting caught up with people by reading them but what i was saying is that a tour should ALSO reflect what that artist is doing in his or her life. madonna has views and she has incorporatd her old songs...which are still very much a part of her, i'm sure...into her new lifestyle. nothing wrong with that.

as for living in poverty or doing without...hell, i give to charities and speak out about gov't policies that would benefit the poor but i'm not about to do without just to prove my point. why should madonna live in any less of a luxurious life than she can afford? it doesn't help the poor person if madonna chooses to be self-sacrificing. i'm not going to stop drinking my bottled water or stop buying my skin care products simply because i know there are poor people in the world. i don't get the argument. are you saying that madonna should not speak out about poverty and war because she is not poor or in war?
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Reply #17 posted 05/26/04 5:50pm

Anxiety

i like the picture i saw of her recently where she was wearing a t-shirt that says "cult member". at least she has a sense of humor about how people view her religion.
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Reply #18 posted 05/26/04 5:52pm

SassyBritches

Anxiety said:

i like the picture i saw of her recently where she was wearing a t-shirt that says "cult member". at least she has a sense of humor about how people view her religion.

i saw that and wanted to buy one for prince! lol i'm thinking maybe i could throw it up to him at one of the chicago shows.


(just kidding, y'all) wink
[This message was edited Wed May 26 10:52:29 2004 by SassyBritches]
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Reply #19 posted 05/26/04 6:06pm

estelle1981

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SassyBritches said:
boy, you are really touchy. i was agreeing with the fact that you're sitting this one out. you don't like what she's doing on this tour so you're not going. no need to get all sorts of salty. and besides that, i think you missed my point. i recognize that you enjoy reading interviews and getting caught up with people by reading them but what i was saying is that a tour should ALSO reflect what that artist is doing in his or her life. madonna has views and she has incorporatd her old songs...which are still very much a part of her, i'm sure...into her new lifestyle. nothing wrong with that.

as for living in poverty or doing without...hell, i give to charities and speak out about gov't policies that would benefit the poor but i'm not about to do without just to prove my point. why should madonna live in any less of a luxurious life than she can afford? it doesn't help the poor person if madonna chooses to be self-sacrificing. i'm not going to stop drinking my bottled water or stop buying my skin care products simply because i know there are poor people in the world. i don't get the argument. are you saying that madonna should not speak out about poverty and war because she is not poor or in war?


Much love Ms. Britches. wink I actually like alot of what I read from the review, especially the fact that she can diversify her show between heavy dance numbers to sit-down segments at the mic with just a guitar. That would probably be the highlight for me. Honestly, I don't get touchy....this is fun, because it helps me see others opinions and show them mine. biggrin I'm just saying that if something doesn't go with the theme, then don't throw it in....that's all. Like I said, I would expect Maddy to talk about Kabbalah if she's singing "Like a Prayer", because the song has a religious meaning. If the whole tour isn't about religion, then it shouldn't be incorporated into all the songs, just the one's that agree with it. Girl, don't go living without self-hygiene products....those are necessary. lol Maybe I just don't believe in the whole holy water, Kabbalah water stuff....it's actually been proven that bottled water isn't any better for you than tap water, unless the tap water has stuff floating in it and then nobody should drink it. No argument my dear, a debate, but not an argument. I'm just throwing out my opinions on the matter, and most people very seldom agree with my way of thinking....I've gotten used to it actually. Honestly, songs that people like, I hate and vice versa....different strokes for different folks. I guess it's just the leftie in me. lol Let love rule!
[This message was edited Wed May 26 11:10:47 2004 by estelle1981]
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Reply #20 posted 05/26/04 6:08pm

estelle1981

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SassyBritches said:

Anxiety said:

i like the picture i saw of her recently where she was wearing a t-shirt that says "cult member". at least she has a sense of humor about how people view her religion.

i saw that and wanted to buy one for prince! lol i'm thinking maybe i could throw it up to him at one of the chicago shows.


(just kidding, y'all) wink
[This message was edited Wed May 26 10:52:29 2004 by SassyBritches]


Do it! lol That would be a hilarious. wink
SPREAD LOVE UNTIL THE SUN'S FINAL RISE--The Duality a.k.a. "WYNTER SKYE"
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Reply #21 posted 05/26/04 6:17pm

SassyBritches

estelle1981 said:

SassyBritches said:
boy, you are really touchy. i was agreeing with the fact that you're sitting this one out. you don't like what she's doing on this tour so you're not going. no need to get all sorts of salty. and besides that, i think you missed my point. i recognize that you enjoy reading interviews and getting caught up with people by reading them but what i was saying is that a tour should ALSO reflect what that artist is doing in his or her life. madonna has views and she has incorporatd her old songs...which are still very much a part of her, i'm sure...into her new lifestyle. nothing wrong with that.

as for living in poverty or doing without...hell, i give to charities and speak out about gov't policies that would benefit the poor but i'm not about to do without just to prove my point. why should madonna live in any less of a luxurious life than she can afford? it doesn't help the poor person if madonna chooses to be self-sacrificing. i'm not going to stop drinking my bottled water or stop buying my skin care products simply because i know there are poor people in the world. i don't get the argument. are you saying that madonna should not speak out about poverty and war because she is not poor or in war?


Much love Ms. Britches. wink I actually like alot of what I read from the review, especially the fact that she can diversify her show between heavy dance numbers to sit-down segments at the mic with just a guitar. That would probably be the highlight for me. Honestly, I don't get touchy....this is fun, because it helps me see others opinions and show them mine. biggrin I'm just saying that if something doesn't go with the theme, then don't throw it in....that's all. Like I said, I would expect Maddy to talk about Kabbalah if she's singing "Like a Prayer", because the song has a religious meaning. If the whole tour isn't about religion, then it shouldn't be incorporated into all the songs, just the one's that agree with it. Girl, don't go living without self-hygiene products....those are necessary. lol Maybe I just don't believe in the whole holy water, Kabbalah water stuff....it's actually been proven that bottled water isn't any better for you than tap water, unless the tap water has stuff floating in it and then nobody should drink it. No argument my dear, a debate, but not an argument. I'm just throwing out my opinions on the matter, and most people very seldom agree with my way of thinking....I've gotten used to it actually. Honestly, songs that people like, I hate and vice versa....different strokes for different folks. I guess it's just the leftie in me. lol Let love rule!
[This message was edited Wed May 26 11:10:47 2004 by estelle1981]

well, either way, its been fun "debating" with you, lol. one thing, though...its Mr. Britches. lol
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Reply #22 posted 05/26/04 6:24pm

JediMaster

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estelle1981 said:


Honestly, songs that people like, I hate and vice versa....different strokes for different folks. I guess it's just the leftie in me. lol Let love rule!
[This message was edited Wed May 26 11:10:47 2004 by estelle1981]


So, you a big fan of New Power Soul?? wink (just joshin' with ya).
jedi

Do not hurry yourself in your spirit to become offended, for the taking of offense is what rests in the bosom of the stupid ones. (Ecclesiastes 7:9)
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Reply #23 posted 05/26/04 6:28pm

estelle1981

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SassyBritches said:

estelle1981 said:

SassyBritches said:


Much love Ms. Britches. wink I actually like alot of what I read from the review, especially the fact that she can diversify her show between heavy dance numbers to sit-down segments at the mic with just a guitar. That would probably be the highlight for me. Honestly, I don't get touchy....this is fun, because it helps me see others opinions and show them mine. biggrin I'm just saying that if something doesn't go with the theme, then don't throw it in....that's all. Like I said, I would expect Maddy to talk about Kabbalah if she's singing "Like a Prayer", because the song has a religious meaning. If the whole tour isn't about religion, then it shouldn't be incorporated into all the songs, just the one's that agree with it. Girl, don't go living without self-hygiene products....those are necessary. lol Maybe I just don't believe in the whole holy water, Kabbalah water stuff....it's actually been proven that bottled water isn't any better for you than tap water, unless the tap water has stuff floating in it and then nobody should drink it. No argument my dear, a debate, but not an argument. I'm just throwing out my opinions on the matter, and most people very seldom agree with my way of thinking....I've gotten used to it actually. Honestly, songs that people like, I hate and vice versa....different strokes for different folks. I guess it's just the leftie in me. lol Let love rule!
[This message was edited Wed May 26 11:10:47 2004 by estelle1981]

well, either way, its been fun "debating" with you, lol. one thing, though...its Mr. Britches. lol


eek Soo sorry. Yeah, my little views on things always get me into debates. The only people that usually agree with my point of views most of the time are lefties like me, but that's another story. I still like me some Madonna. I can watch "Who's That Girl?" all day, never get tired of it, and defend it til the end. biggrin I consider the debate to be an argument when it's biased and these discussions are faaar from that. I've met some die-hard Madonna fans, who love every single song, show, and action that she's done. If you told them that you didn't like the shoes that Madonna wore to the Grammys, they would go off on you. Dude, it's just some shoes.
SPREAD LOVE UNTIL THE SUN'S FINAL RISE--The Duality a.k.a. "WYNTER SKYE"
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Reply #24 posted 05/26/04 6:33pm

estelle1981

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JediMaster said:

estelle1981 said:


Honestly, songs that people like, I hate and vice versa....different strokes for different folks. I guess it's just the leftie in me. lol Let love rule!
[This message was edited Wed May 26 11:10:47 2004 by estelle1981]


So, you a big fan of New Power Soul?? wink (just joshin' with ya).


In all honesty, I liked it more than "Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic"; I thought it was good except for 2 or 3 songs. Plus, I like "Graffiti Bridge" more than "Purple Rain." First time I watched "Purple Rain", I wanted to beat Prince's ass...he came off as being such a pompous jerk to me.
SPREAD LOVE UNTIL THE SUN'S FINAL RISE--The Duality a.k.a. "WYNTER SKYE"
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Reply #25 posted 05/26/04 7:31pm

kisscamille

DorothyParkerWasCool said:

Byron said:

"she paid cheerful but earnest tribute to her new favorite spiritual beliefs throughout the show: near the end she sang "Papa Don't Preach" while wearing a T-shirt that read "Kabbalists Do It Better."

You know, if Prince wore a t-shirt that said "JW's Do It Better", he would have been crucified on this site. I wonder how Madonna's fans take her insertion of her spiritual beliefs into her shows?



Amen to That!!!! I was thinking the same thing while reading this article. It seems as though Madonna is as vocal about her beliefs as Prince. Where is the outcry?


IMHO - there is no outcry because people feel that Prince is serious about his religion and Madonna is not. She takes on a certain religion to appear "cool". I don't take anything she endorses seriously. First it was her catholic religion, then Hindu, some Japanese something or other and now this. She's a fake!
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Reply #26 posted 05/26/04 8:13pm

ehuffnsd

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JediMaster said:

Byron said:

"she paid cheerful but earnest tribute to her new favorite spiritual beliefs throughout the show: near the end she sang "Papa Don't Preach" while wearing a T-shirt that read "Kabbalists Do It Better."

You know, if Prince wore a t-shirt that said "JW's Do It Better", he would have been crucified on this site. I wonder how Madonna's fans take her insertion of her spiritual beliefs into her shows?


Amen to that. Seems like Maddy's overall fanbase is a bit more tolerant.



LOL they are as catty and bitchy on the madoona boards as they are here. Most of them can't stand hearing about Kaballah if you go to http://www.madonnainter.net they have a kaballah free greeting.
You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
authentic power is service- Pope Francis
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Reply #27 posted 05/26/04 8:43pm

DorothyParkerW
asCool

estelle1981 said:

jtgillia said:
All songs should only be about fun, dancing, music, and sex. Anything more serious will cause major public outcry with Prince fans....

-sarcasm edit-


lol You must have missed my post in a different thread. When I go to see Prince in June, he better stick to the topic of the song. I will be putting some nice pointy rocks in my purse and I have a pretty good aim. "Purple Rain" had better not be interuppted by some JW shit.


I hope you're kidding because we will be reading about the person at the Prince concert that got their ass whipped and arrested for throwing rocks at the stage. lol
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Reply #28 posted 05/26/04 9:01pm

estelle1981

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DorothyParkerWasCool said:

estelle1981 said:

jtgillia said:


lol You must have missed my post in a different thread. When I go to see Prince in June, he better stick to the topic of the song. I will be putting some nice pointy rocks in my purse and I have a pretty good aim. "Purple Rain" had better not be interuppted by some JW shit.


I hope you're kidding because we will be reading about the person at the Prince concert that got their ass whipped and arrested for throwing rocks at the stage. lol


They'll have to catch me first. lol
SPREAD LOVE UNTIL THE SUN'S FINAL RISE--The Duality a.k.a. "WYNTER SKYE"
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Reply #29 posted 05/26/04 9:06pm

DorothyParkerW
asCool

estelle1981 said:

DorothyParkerWasCool said:



I hope you're kidding because we will be reading about the person at the Prince concert that got their ass whipped and arrested for throwing rocks at the stage. lol


They'll have to catch me first. lol

neutral
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