DavidEye said:

no such thng is chemical skin bleach
you were misinformed

VoicesCarry said:

read about this in the post yesterday
Sensationalized story....
i suggest avoid it
its as liable as the written love letters the police allegedly found lol
[This message was edited Mon May 3 7:23:47 2004 by Luv4oneanotha]

Luv4oneanotha said:

Well, we'll see, won't we?
All I know is - there is a lot of shit that the public doesn't know, so I'm reserving judgement until after the trial. I really don't know how someone can talk with any genuine authority about this case until that time.
[This message was edited Mon May 3 7:25:48 2004 by VoicesCarry]

VoicesCarry said:

doubt it nobody ever reports if story is false
or if evidence turned out to be nothing

Luv4oneanotha said:

I meant we'll see at the trial, when the evidence will be known.

your right there is alot of shit the public doesnt know and most of the stuff we dont know is the stuff that will proove michaels innocence

riverdean7 said:

could go both ways
doubt it tho,
the reason sneddon needed the conspiracy charge
was because its the easiest charge to prove...
mj doesn't even need to be guilty of child molestation anymore...

Shapeshifter said:

No. But what I would like is to see you fuck yourself in the eyeball with a screwdriver.

Luv4oneanotha said:

We should all wait until the evidence is tested for positive DNA matches and/or authenticity. We shouldn't make conclusions one way or the other, no matter how much we may love/hate/pity/misunderstand the man.

Cloudbuster said:

I'm sensing some antipathy .

VoicesCarry said:

Your senses are working well.

I don't know. The more I hear about this case, the fishier it gets. I'm really beginning to believe that MJ is being set up, and has been more than once. Unfortunately, he makes himself an easy target by not changing his behaviour. I understand that the man is out of touch with reality, but he really could have avoided this. Guess he's jsut too trusting.

JediMaster said:

well look at his legal state...
he is extremely naive
he lstenes to only people who are around him
on issues that are not music Privy he's pretty much stumped
he's getting advice from everybody and doesn't know what the next move is

in response to the underwear
Roger Friedman Fox News:

"Yesterday's news reports about Michael Jackson's unearthed personal belongings were long on innuendo and short on fact. They'd also been reported earlier in People and The National Enquirer, but that's another story.

yuu shouldn't take that report too seriously...

Luv4oneanotha said:

I just read an article at Yahoo News which clearly states that they found "drawings of a nose and tubes of skin-bleaching cream".Draw your own conclusions

But anyway,his bleached skin is the least of his problems.

The skin lightening creams are used to even out his blotchy skin. He's admitted to this before.

Cloudbuster said:

lightening agents yes
no bleaching agents tho
DavidEye
where you got your info?
thats like 3 years old?
and its a false story
go to a Madonna thread and stop giving us Unverified info
[This message was edited Tue May 4 5:16:48 2004 by Luv4oneanotha]

Luv4oneanotha said:

http://story.news.yahoo.c.../14020&e=5

click on that link if you dare

Something tells me I really don't want to know what the Rubberhead Club was all about.

And, Davideye, although Yahoo News may be reporting this, they are reporting it in the form of hearsay from Henry Vacarro, who is already exploiting Michael's memorabilia. They aren't reporting it as fact. I wouldn't believe it if I were you.
[This message was edited Tue May 4 5:38:25 2004 by VoicesCarry]

VoicesCarry said:

what don't you believe? The story about MJ's underwear,or the tubes of skin-bleaching cream they found?

DavidEye said:

Tubes of skin bleaching cream. Henry Vacarro I don't exactly consider a RELIABLE source of information. Yahoo does not report it as fact, they report it as being said by him.
[This message was edited Tue May 4 5:47:34 2004 by VoicesCarry]

DavidEye said:

as voices said
Henry isn't quite the reliable source...

VoicesCarry said:

from what I've Read, its not even a real Club, something that was made with Emanuel Lewis and a few kid sbecause they were watching three stooges, nothing serious
wouldn't call it a secret club lol
people love to sensationalize NEWS that isnt interesting

Got this from the mjjforum from a poster by the sn vstreet. Very interesting...



Quote:
-----
Got back from Santa Maria and here's my report (Disclaimer for all of those "eyes": This report is based strictly on my opinion, unless otherwise expressly stated below):

The Police

I could NOT believe how many police were patrolling out in front of Neverland on Thursday and Friday. These cops were literally waiting for someone to sneeze so that they could issue a citation. And talk about the biggest bunch of redneck cops – they would NOT even smile or say hi in return. They would literally look through you. I did NOT observe any brutality or “misconduct” on the officer’s part, but I did witness one resident of Santa Maria get arrested after the cop asked him to turn off his radio which was playing MJ music on 95.7. The cop gave him 3 rapid warnings and then confiscated his license and told him he was going to jail. SB County cops were all white, as far as I could tell. The Santa Maria police dept on the other hand had some diversity.

These assholes had nothing better to do than drive up and down the road in front of MJ’s property. For a minute, I thought I was in a gang war zone by the way the cops were patrolling the area. Cops patrolling Neverland like there was no tomorrow – there’s NO DOUBT we live in a military police state.

My Conversation with Agent BW

(following has been paraphrased and the person’s identity has been concealed in order to protect his privacy if he so wishes to keep his opinions private) -- I noticed that some of the people on this board have already started discussing him

I went into a very detailed discussion with BW. For those of you who do NOT know him (or those who were not there during our conversation), BW is a local SB County resident and is an independent investigative journalist who provides programming to an independent network which is available on Satellite. He is also a major political activist in the area and constantly confronts govt. corruption (in whatever ways he is able to). He has also done a show about MJ's legal case and claims that he wish he could do more, but the govt. is trying to shut him down.

I asked BW what he thought of the current legal situation:

He said that it was a very well known fact that Tom Sneddon is furious about Michael’s song D.S. He said that he never got over that and the fact that MJ “got away” in 1993 and Sneddon was “out to get him”. He also said that he warned Michael about this “plot”.

I asked his opinion of Judge Melville:

He said he knows Melville very well and knows that he rides horses (who doesn’t in SB County?) and is a “good ole’ boy”. He said that he is one of Sneddon’s buddies (as are a lot of “elites” in that area). He said that Melville will NOT be fair to Michael and that he is probably one of the WORST judges (in his opinion) that he could have been given. He also made the comment that Melville was handpicked for this case and that the other judges were mysteriously assigned to other tasks in order for Melville to look like he was the only one that could handle this. He said that Melville will “screw MJ into the ground” on judgment calls that he has to make. Remember, judges have to use the law to make fair & impartial decisions. Well, according to BW, Melville will almost always make the worst decision (in the prosecutions favor) for Mike. When asked who he recommended as an alternative to Melville, BW said Zell Cantor and another judge whose name I cannot remember. Zell presided over the Avram lawsuit against Mike in 2002. He said that there really isn’t going to be a “fair” judge in that county, but if push came to shove Zell and one other one would at least not be as harsh as Melville or some of the others. (he has had some experience with almost all of the judges in SB County)

I asked BW about the Grand Jury in the current case:

He said that he staked out the Grand Jury’s locations and saw the Grand Jury. He claims that the Grand Jury was selected only from the North County and that they were all white. He said that they were ready to indict MJ from day one.

I asked BW about the Conspiracy charge:

BW said that this was going to be the count that they will get MJ on. He said even if MJ were to avoid being convicted on all other counts, it will be nearly impossible to escape this one count because it really doesn’t require hard evidence per se and it allows “hearsay” to be introduced. He said practically anybody can be called as a witness for the conspiracy charge and it only takes a little to make you guilty of this (even if you didn’t commit the crime itself – you can still be guilty of a coverup). It can also affect MJ’s attorney client privileges. Plus, he said that juries in the North County (which are predominately neoconservative and white) tend to believe that if the Govt. charges you with a crime, then you must have done something wrong. He said that this charge was going to be the “easy” one to “get” MJ on.

I asked BW about his opinion of what he recommended Mike should do at this point:

He responded that Mike should hire a couple of helicopter pilots and get the hell away from SB County. He said that although he didn’t consider Michael “normal”, he definitely doesn’t believe Michael is guilty of any of the charges against him. When asked why he doesn’t dig up the dirt on the county and present this in a new show, he said that he would, but that would cause him to get into trouble with law enforcement. According to BW, law enforcement doesn’t like him cause he is a “whistle blower” and a Libertarian. He mentioned how “THEY” were trying to shut him down for good.

The People of SB County

I questioned many people of the local area on what they thought of MJ and his case. The reason I did this is to gauge what the average person on the streets of SB County thinks of MJ.

I met a fan who was a long time resident of SB county and she said that the majority of the area does NOT like MJ. She constantly gets threatening glares from locals when she wears MJ shirts and they make it very obvious that they do NOT like MJ by giving her their opinion of him. (note, although I did not receive any threatening glares, I did not receive any warmth either. I did get a few eye rolls from people who were driving by Neverland Ranch, but I also saw a considerable number of locals yelling out support chants and playing MJ music)

I met an elderly woman at the front gate of Neverland. She was probably in her 70’s. She said that she felt MJ never did anything wrong and she had a favorable opinion of him because he did a lot in the way of philanthropy for the local community. She did not understand the current case against MJ.

I met several other fans from the area, but one in particular told me about a rally she had at her school. She said that she cleared it with her teachers and that although she had a lot of people questioning her and some that were NOT happy, it was overall positive. She said that the support rally for Michael had some effect on the mindset of the students to at least start asking questions of the case.

In Santa Maria,

I ran into many residents who claimed that they were just there observing the court house that day because they had heard about it in the media and wanted to come down to see what it was like. They also said that they had not made up their minds about Mike and that they would wait and see what happens. One person also said that his gut says something must have happened for this to go down the way it did. A convenience store worker (who was Hispanic) asked me what MJ was like. She seemed very amazed that I got to see MJ and sounded positive in her opinion of MJ, but could not give me a definite answer as to what she thought of the case. She responded, “I don’t know”. I talked to a local DJ for 95.7 in Santa Maria and he said that his station supported MJ as an artist (cause they play his music all the time – even before the charges), but could NOT comment on the legal case as they have to remain neutral. He was in the crowd of fans at the court house and sounded genuine.

I also ran into some of Sneddon’s cohorts outside of the courtroom holding up that sh*tty sign that says that “they believe the victim” and that “they support their DA and sheriff. There were approx. 4 ladies in total and they all had on some cheap shirts that they all printed up and were the same ones who were at the other court appearances. They got booed and cussed out by the crowd, but the media still paid more attention to them than they deserved. I actually went up to one of them and asked her who paid her to hold up that sign. She rambled off some scripted response as to how the county of SB elected Tom Sneddon and how she supports him and that the residents like him. It was total BS and it looked like she knew it, too.

In Solvang

(which is predominately Danish), I ate at a restaurant where I overheard whisperings of MJ at a table near me. I couldn’t make out what was said, but I did hear Michael’s name and I know that the family was discussing him. I also overheard one resident exclaim to the other that the reason he came “out to eat” was because his maid had quit. I just found that comment surprising since I wasn’t used to hearing about people having their own maids. I guess I just live in the wrong area of the Country.

The Local Santa Marian Media:

The Santa Marian SUN newspaper (dated April 29, 2004, page 27) stated that the best way to prepare for the MJ Trial is to treat the trial like a “Biological” terrorist threat and visit the Department of Homeland security’s website to prepare for it. It goes on to make comparisons between the govt’s tips on how to prepare for Biological Hazard and the MJ case (essentially telling the reader to follow the govt’s tips to prepare for the trial).

What I predict will happen (This is my opinion)

Michael Jackson is the target of a Neoconservative movement in the country. I’m not going to get into what being a NeoCon is about or who they are (there’s plenty of information on the internet), but I can summarize it by saying that they have a very far reaching, broad based plan which is currently being executed (i.e. the clean up of the Priesthood, the war on drugs, the war on Terrorrism, the crackdown on DISSENT in the media, the crackdown on left wing radio or any broadcast that is considered “indecent”, the crackdown on anyone who fights with Big Business or attempts to “break away” from Big Business’ control, etc.). Michael Jackson (and those like him) are NOT a part of the NeoCon plan. He is a threat to the overall function of this plan. Neocons do NOT support Black individualism or Black power for that matter. (I believe Sony has influenced this county’s decision to persecute Michael)

If Michael sticks around for a trial (which is more like a Tribunal since his attorney client privileges will be breached and they will allow “hearsay” evidence into the trial) he will be railroaded on the FALSE charge of Conspiracy. SB County (particularly those in Santa Maria) juries consists mainly of upper white class conservatives who generally believe that if the Govt. charges you with a crime, then you must have done something wrong. Conspiracy is a very easy charge for a prosecutor to win since it allows the defendant’s rights to be further breached by allowing in “hearsay” evidence. Basically, anyone can come forward with his/her own version of events (even if they are third party “he said, she said” information) and state something for the jury to hear.

Furthermore, the juries in “neoconservative” Santa Maria are carefully selected by prosecutors so that they get their conviction. Mike’s house is almost the same distance from Santa Maria as it is from Santa Barbara. The only reason Sneddon chose the North County to try Mike is so that he is tried by a bunch of govt. drones.

Furthermore, the conspiracy charge is a Federal felony. Don’t expect Mike to get any help from the FBI or CIA. They are in on this together. Just take a look around and see how many people with ties to the govt. have had a hand in “creating” this case (Xtrajet, Jay Jackson, G**** and his siblings who were part of several law enforcement youth programs, Masada who had connections to an assistant DA who served as his bouncer for almost a decade, etc.). Just take a look at the timeline between January 1, 2001 and May 3, 2004 and see all of the peculiar incidents (and DA statements) that have cropped up. Don’t forget Roger Friedman’s ominous warning in the Summer of 2002 of how MJ and all of his associates were going to be destroyed in a “scorched Earth” scenario.

I have always said that this case is MUCH MUCH bigger than you can imagine (remember how I told you that we needed to “connect the dots” in this case to understand who all was involved?). There are conspirators galore trying to destroy MJ and all of his associates. I also believe that this current plan (which includes G****) was hatched in 2001 (before the release of invincible). Sneddon said that the 1993 case was NOT dead and that it could be reactivated upon a new accuser coming forward. When Mike said that his "life" was at stake, he wasn't lying. I believe he means that "literally".

Furthermore, T-Mez should NOT have complimented the judge in this case. This judge does NOT deserve to be complimented. Due to his comments, I have my reservations about T-Mez. I will refrain from further comment until I get a better grip of what he is like.

There is NO Doubt (not even .000005 %) that MJ is Innocent. There is NO Doubt (not even .000005 %) that MJ is Innocent. And unlike BW, I believe MJ is NORMAL and is an OUTStanding Soul. He is divinity in motion.

riverdean7 said:

Uh huh. This drivel is hilarious. Next conspiracy theory: Fidel Castro dressed up as Marilyn Monroe and gave JFK such a searing case of syphillis that it blew the back of his head off.
[This message was edited Tue May 4 8:33:24 2004 by VoicesCarry]

VoicesCarry said:

gotta agree with V.C on this one
i couldn't even get through the first 4 paragraphs
gave me a terrible headache
MJ fans are a little too out of this world for me

Remember, according to a Fox news report, Sneddon sought contact with this family now accusing Jackson as far back as Feb 16 2003. This is months before a second investigation was launched by the Santa Barbara Sheriff’s Department after the first, 2 month long investigation by them was closed citing no criminal activity on Jackson’s part:

In fact FrankTyson and Vincent Amen will recount how, when they returned the family to their own apartment in East Los Angeles on February 16, 2003, a business card belonging to Sneddon had already been slipped under the door of their apartment.

The mother — fresh from the uproar 10 days earlier of her two sons being featured in the Martin Bashir special "Living with Michael Jackson" — picked up the card and called Sneddon, they will say. And that could suggest that Sneddon, long before there was any accusation against Jackson of child molestation, was already looking for a case that might develop into something more.

Why was he trying to contact this family since Feb 2003? He has already publicly stated via a press release then that he would not investigate Jackson because admitting to “sharing a bed” letting a child sleep in your bed while you sleep on the floor with a child in and of itself is not criminal conduct. So just why was Sneddon so eager to contact this family?

Why was he meeting alone with the accuser’s mother in a parking lot behind a federal building? Did he not want anyone from his office or the police to find out he was meeting with her? Was this a benign meeting or was this secrecy used to solicit an allegation of abuse from her child?

As expected, on April 29on the Abrams Report, both prosecution mouthpiece Jim Thomas and Gloria Allred were unsuccessfully attempting to explain-away the incredible seriousness of this and what it means to this “case”. I’m just going to say it because people are still trying to ignore this information: There’s no way in hell this isn’t a problem and helps add to the shady activities that have gone on thus far in this “case”. This is yet another layer of questionable actions by the prosecutors. And one of the guests on the Abrams Report, Mercedes Colwin, was completely right about this being very problematic.

Colwin says that as a prosecutor, you have to have a “dispassionate” interest. That means you cannot be gathering evidence yourself from star witnesses in the case in some parking lot behind a federal building. She continues:

You can’t be so personally involved that you’re gathering evidence. As a defense attorney, he Sneddon would be the first witness I would call. He’s gathering evidence. He’s talking to witnesses. He has no one present in the room. This is a very sensitive case and involves a child. And certainly, that child can be very impressionable.

Colwin, who has worked in a prosecutor’s office before, says that she would never have gone to talk with a witness by herself. She says:

…what can happen at the time of the trial is suddenly this witness is testifying to something entirely different than what they told me. Extraordinarily problematic…

What may also be highly challenging is the chain of custody of this alleged evidence Sneddon collected from the mother, by himself with no witnesses in a parking lot behind a federal building, is the chain of custody.

…certainly, gathering evidence—as you Abrams had stated earlier—is he’s collecting documentation. Where’s the chain of custody? You have to show where that evidence was from beginning to end. Who else is going to be able to testify? ‘Where did that evidence go when I took it from this witness?’

Someone who has access of older information from the 1993 case is not someone who should be allowed to handle—and handle it alone—anything new coming into this case. It would reek of corruption and suspicion immediately. Many people are indeed questioning the motives behind this prosecution and the prosecution’s tactics thus far. Colwin says that this gathering of evidence, as reported by MSNBC, is concerned by the personal involvement with this information gathered by the prosecution:

My concern is this: That this person has been following Michael Jackson—the surveillance is extraordinarily problematic. Since 1993, he’s been trying to prosecute Michael Jackson. And if they—if he continues and he’s gathering this evidence, and he’s trying to collect this information, I think it’s extraordinarily problematic. First of all, I have represented prosecutors that have done less than what Sneddon has done, and suddenly you have a due process issue when individuals have been wrongfully convicted for evidence gathered by these prosecutors.

Colwin asked the same questions many people who heard the news yesterday have been asking since. So far, no one has been able to satisfactorily answer the question: Why in the world couldn’t Sneddon have taken someone else with him or allowed some other parties to meet with the accuser’s mother. Colwin explains:

What would have been the problem, though, if Sneddon had gone with someone else? And that’s what I think defines why this is problematic. What—because you, look at the situation. Now he is—and Dan Abrams you’re exactly right—he has placed himself in this vulnerable position. He has been a district attorney for a very long time. He’s a seasoned lawyer. Why would he place himself in this situation? Why not bring someone else with him? He’s got a large office. He’s got many attorneys that work for him. Bring them along. Bring an investigator along. I find that problematic.

One could also ask questions as to why Sneddon would tell jokes and appear overly jocular at the first very first press conference; why he would answer over 100 questions at another press conference; why he would hold off initially filing charges against Jackson to get a media website ready; why he would then run to Judge Melville whining that a gag order should be placed on the parties in the case; why he would then crawl to a grand jury to get an indictment for fear of having his witnesses’ stories torn apart by defense attorneys in a preliminary hearing. This is by far not the first weird happening in this case. It is just another one of those things that make absolutely no sense at all. It also could be extremely detrimental to a “case” that is already riding on fumes towards a jury trial.

and the D.A. said if that is not a crime to sleep with a child back in feb.

riverdean7 said:

Lol, there is no due process conflict with Sneddon. Get off it. Sneddon is like any other prosecutor - he believes Michael is guilty, and he is trying to prove it. I understand that in the eyes of an MJ fanatic, that is heretical, but it's also reality. This is not malicious prosecution. If Michael is innocent, he will be found innocent.
[This message was edited Wed May 5 4:05:07 2004 by VoicesCarry]

Mj Seriously needed some dirt on him
Cause Mj's Image Was Impeccable
even with all the wierd headlines in the tabloids,
you never had any real dirt on him
people always seen him with kids and never really raised an eyebrow
that cloud darkened in 93
thats when we question actions
We think since it happened twice, the second charge has got to have some truth to it
Thats the way people think...
when it could simply be that it would be easier to Pinn MJ
cause his image is already nearly Destroyed
Its very easy to say Pin it on the "freak"
the skin bleaching nose job obsessed freak! gotta be a child abuser!
any normal terapist or child psycologist knows that
it isn't the freaks that are Currupting your children
its the people that seem "Normal" who are
Your Doctors,Teachers,Fathers,Uncles,aunts
Pinning it on the Local Freak is just a cop out


I agree with this

riverdean7 said:

I'm finding that there is a lot of "the white people are out to get MJ" vibes amongst this crowd. I'm not liking it.
The police are doing their job for heaven's sake! They have no personal vendetta against the man.
And this account is the biggest pile of one-sided shit I have ever read. Everyone who supports MJ "seems genuine" and the rest are all wearing "cheap shirts"!

Ugh!