DavidEye said:

i like her. i don't need deep or profound thought in everything. after all, i enjoy madonna and let's face it, her brand of psuedo intellectualism is not terribly involving.

but i am surprised by a lot of people showing such a lack of objectivity.

DavidEye said:

while i don't think it there is unfluence in regard to the choir thing...especially considering the over all message of graffiti bridge...i do think prince wanted to make a controversial video with sexy mf and yes, i do think it was a competitive thing. i don't have a problem admitting that i think prince took a page from madonna's book there. but to toss up the whole bed/masturbation thing to coincidence or influence is naive, i think. it was practically the exact same scene...minus the cones and the gay dancers on the side. the girating, the pillow grinding. nah...i'm sure it was more than coincidence. and i don't hold madonna in ill regard for this. that would mean i'd have to hold prince in a negative light for all of his sly and james and hendrix and santana and beatles and...well, you get the point.

anyhow, i stand by my opinion. it took madonna 4 records (5 if you count you can dance) to come up with something as brilliant as like a prayer. and by brilliant, i mean in pop standards...cuz it sure ain't no dylan or joni record, k.

VinaBlue said:

at this point in the game, nobody is original. as much as i love prince, he's not doing anything that people before him have not offered up. his genius lies in his ability to melt them together to create a harmonious blending.

when madonna offers up something as creative, then i'll consider dissing britney for lagging behind. my problem here, with this whole argument, is that britney doesn't compare herself to madonna (or anyone else for that matter). i'm sure she's aware of her place in pop music. its everyone else who feels the need to pit the two against each other.

no, i do not think they are equals. britney has a looooong way to go before she even echoes a shred of madonna's career. but what has that really got to do with madonna. i merely mentioned madonna because, it's true, madonna took a few records before she released anything of serious substance. so, because madonna did it in 4 records does that mean EVERY other performer after her has to follow the same route? its just silly.

SassyBritches said:

As creative as what? Prince? By that qualifier, very few artists would meet your standards.

The reality is Madonna has set trends in pop music for 20 years. She is a true trailblazer. Britney is on year #5 as a blonde brainless bimbo, with 4 basically shitty hodgepodge albums under her belt. Her good songs are:

"I'm A Slave 4 U" (thanks, Neptunes)
"Toxic" (thanks, Cathy Dennis)
"...Baby One More Time" (thanks, Max Martin)

None of her albums approach the state-of-the-art dance pop that define Madonna's first two records, nor do they hint at any ability (or intent) to move beyond faked orgasms, shopping sprees and the art of cockteasing as subject matter. She has written one song, "Dear Diary", and cowritten (along with 7 other writers, I might add) several songs from her new record, all of which are laughable, none of which hint at any real songwriting ability. Her records are essentially carbon copies of each other. She strikes poses (album 1 was "girl next door", 2 was "sexpot emerges", 3 was "independent woman with a slutty side", and 4 "college-age girl learns how to party and let herself go"), equates them with maturity and passes them off as artistic progression. She cannot sing. She has the thinking ability of a gnat (asked if she was dabbling in Hinduism during her Eastern religions phase, she asked the reporter "Is that like the kaballah?"), and she has absolutely no personality. How is this woman supposed to mature? That's like asking Jessica Simpson to grow a brain. Not gonna happen.

Madonna may be many things, but she was never stupid (a 140 IQ helps). That is reflected in her music. Stupidity, on the other hand, seems to define Britney and, consequently, immaturity continues to permeate her music. Don't think it's gonna change any time soon.

Who do I think has a better chance at emerging as the "new Madonna"? Christina Aguilera, whose Stripped album is a good example of pop done right. Stylistically eclectic stuff, if overlong. Attempts to break free from the teen pop mold, with sophisticated production, interesting song subject matter, and a sense of melody. I think she had a hell of a lot more
input on that album that Britney's had on all of hers combined. Britney can produce 4 albums in 5 years because they're easy to bring off the assembly line. Christina spent 3 years working on that record, and it shows.
[This message was edited Thu Apr 29 15:18:28 2004 by VoicesCarry]

VoicesCarry said:

LMAO. I always think its funny when a "solo artist" has a song written by over 5 people. I went to a music business seminar and found out that there are people employed as title-creators, or problem-solvers... Like if one verse just isn't right, they will come up with a better word or line and they get songwriting credit, royalties etc.



She had an Eastern Religion phase? Puh-lease!



I dig Christina, although Stripped has some songs on it that I would consider leaving off. Still, I totally agree with what you are saying.

VoicesCarry said:

no, just very few POP artists.

VoicesCarry said:

somehow you've got me confused for someone who disagrees with that. i just wish britney would surround herself with the same kind of artists that madonna surrouds herself with. then she could make those kind of strides.

VoicesCarry said:

and therein lies the problem of this whole debate. when did i say she is the "new madonna"? i've already stated, about 5 responses up, that i don't play the game of the next prince or the next madonna or the next beatles. these are individual people who've made once in a lifetime marks on their industry. that is my whole point. everytime someone mentions britney (or janet or christina or...) and madonna in the same sentence it turns into this. i don't really feel the need to justify my love for britney's new cd. why do people have to? do i care how smart madonna is? does that effect how i feel about a cd i like? of course not. do i care how intelligent or unintelligent britney is? will that effect how i like her cd? no. one thing i can say is that when i was 22, i was pretty stupid. i was street smart but not book smart. you know, dumb blondes sell pretty well in america right now. unless you know britney personally, i wouldn't be so sure to assume she's as dull as she comes off. after all, if madonna is so smart, why does she like to hang out with britney?

SassyBritches said:

See, personally, I think she's too stupid to make any sorts of "strides", but then that's just me. And Madonna's music is not good simply because she aligns herself with the right people, as you imply. When Britney starts to write/cowrite entire albums (and with one other writer, not with 5 or 6), I might respect her a bit.

SassyBritches said:

Madonna tried to use Britney to erase some of the bad taste from the American Life disaster, pure and simple.

The intelligence of an artist doesn't affect enjoyment of the disc, but it sure as hell does affect how intelligent the disc can be, which was my point. I don't see maturity coming for Britney. Therefore it won't show in her music. Give it another 5 years, and we'll see who's right . If the bitch can't come up with something in 10 years, we can't claim it's because she's "only 26, and needs time to grow".
[This message was edited Thu Apr 29 16:08:07 2004 by VoicesCarry]

VoicesCarry said:

god, i'm gonna regret this...i really should just bow out of this conversation...i just love a good back and forth though...

how long has madonna been milking this electro thing?
[This message was edited Thu Apr 29 16:10:54 2004 by SassyBritches]
[This message was edited Thu Apr 29 16:11:48 2004 by SassyBritches]

SassyBritches said:

If you believe ROL, Music and American Life can all be grouped under "electro", then you haven't listened to them .

Half of AL was acoustic, to begin with

And how long have Bob & Joni been milking that "guitar singer/songwriter" thing? See how silly an argument like that is?
[This message was edited Thu Apr 29 16:16:14 2004 by VoicesCarry]

VoicesCarry said:

i really was just kidding there. i just had to say it. you know i like american life and ray of light...they won't get any complaints from me.

how's that for objectivity!

SassyBritches said:

"if madonna is so smart,why does she like to hang out with britney?"

For the same reason she used to hang out with losers like Sandra Bernhard and Dennis Rodman....for shock value and nothing else

***In 1992,Prince releases a racy video ("Sexy MF") that is banned everywhere


actually it was "Gett Off" that was banned

msserendipity said:

You've GOT to be kidding!!