after seeing pics like these I lost respect for him...

You know, I'm the last person I would consider to be a positivity freak. I'm all for expressing your opinion, especially on topics of music, drug addiction or what have you, but I meant for this thread to be more of a memorium of an artist who has passed on and meant a lot to me and many others. I guess I should have been more clear. And should have realized some people can't help but express negativity no matter where or how appropriate.

CarrieMpls said:

Welcome to the Org

Now I know you're not new but you had to expect some negative bullshit and a few pictures.

The people that are judgemental about someone they didn't know based on his actions really need to chill.

Here cram this in your hole

CarrieMpls said:

sorry to have been "spreading negativity". kurt cobain and the music he made with nirvana meant a lot to me as well but i do have an issue with those who take themselves out and leave a mess behind for their friends and family to clean up. It makes me sad but more than that, it makes me angry. I also HATE when people try to make excuses or glorify drug addiction. there is no excuse and i refuse to make excuses for someone just because that person made some good music. sorry, but what i posted earlier were just my thoughts that i needed to share on the 10 year aniversary of this event that did affect me when i was younger. i don't take back a word of it.

i was also wondering out loud about how death seems to instantly create a legend but layne stanley from alice and chians died and no one is calling him a legend. so much for that theory.
[This message was edited Tue Apr 6 16:39:24 2004 by JasmineFire]

mrdespues said:

Co-Sign...What A Wanker!!!

Sorry he's no longer with us, but he is seriously overrated. More hype than skills.

If he were alive today..would he be as relevant? The whole grunge thing kinda came and went ...I can't really envision Kurt re-inventing himself. There is absolutely no doubt that Nirvana ushered in a new breed of music and star, but really; the whole landscape was due for a change, it was coming anyway. IMO, Kurt was more right place, right time. I'm not gonna argue about talent and all that..but it does suck that he felt so trapped by a lifestyle and path that HE chose. It's hard for me to respect his way out.....

CarrieMpls said:

I see.

PanthaGirl said:

Thankyou, PanthaGirl.

Yes he's entitled to his opinion, Marrk, and I'm entitled to my opinion that he's despicable for saying such a thing. Loser.

roodboi said:

Nirvana was one of the better grunge bands though. perhaps nirvana wouldn't have remained as popular but i do think that they would have stuck around the way that pearl jam and soundgarden (sorta) have. nirvana still picks up new fans even though the whole seattle thing is beyond tired and i think that has to do with the music itself and not the scene it was a part of.

mrdespues said:

I second that.

CarrieMpls said:

sorry to have dissapointed you with my opinion. I will say his music was great! His band was on fire. But after his death seeing how he died made me think of him as selfish and not giving a rats ass about his poor kid. I feel the same way about courtney love. At some point responsibility plays a key role in life and seeing her looking all weathered and drugged up makes me think their child has more chances of ending up fucked up more so than happy and normal unless some father or mother figure can help raising them better than neglect her.



Even my friend who died last week from a heart attack stemming from drugs should have seeked some help because now she is without her father and the last memory of him being alive will be how he died. These are all terrible situations but I guess I need to keep my opinions to myself next time!

I was never into Nirvana, but after Kurt died, I got into a little of it. He was an amazing talent and definitely the "real deal" artist/musician. No poseur who is just in it for the money and pussy goes and blows his brains out like that. He was a tortured artist and that is endearing for some reason. My two favorite songs by him are probably "Rape Me" and "Smells Like Teen Spirit" of course.

mrdespues said:

Well he done what he wanted 2 do right? Them demons U speak of is what hes stuck hanging out with the last 10yrs now. Look I don't feel sorry 4 this man who started his music journey then coped out when his fame got 2 big 4 him 2 handle....So 4 leaving his fans hanging his child etc... in the dust cuz he couldn't cut this life that we "all" must deal with (good & bad) someway or the other....

Truth hurts but if he so hated the fame that made him he shouldn't have signed with a record label at all....He sold himself out right then and there....so all he did was waste everyones time as well as his by emarking on a journey he wasn't down 2 finish....party pooper!


And 2 base this mans so called greatness on guessing what if he been alive etc.....useless as much as giving up on life itself...And some of U want 2 shed tears over a person who truly had no goal other then 2 end life at 27?? Cry on seeing its your tears 2 waste. I feel it makes him a unfinshed loser who jumped out of life and music B4 he got forgotton about first. How brave....



*So I'm a moron? Sure I am....but U see I'm much better then Kurt will ever B seeing I'm still standing at 34 drug free and after taking many life ass kickings I still fight on never giving up and more important never leaving a child or loved one 2 feel such a huge loss or deep pain...what a true selfesh fuck 4 that.....

Supernova said:

That was my reaction as well. I just thought of him as another frontman of a band that I liked. I was sad when I heard he died and I remember exactly where I was/what I was doing when I heard it on the radio, but for me he wasn't a hero or role model at all. Perhaps it's because I felt like his music and lyrics weren't anything really new or different to what I had already been listening to for years. I listened/listen to so many other bands that had that whole angst-ridden/fuck the system type stance (if that's what it can be called), way before Nirvana ever came along. I think it that Nirvana and Kurt became known as the "pioneers" for our generation for that sort of music ONLY because they had commercial success and therefore crossed over into the mainstream. But for me, they were just a good band.

MrLovesexy said:

Well, I wouldn't call you a moron, but insensitive. I'm guessing you've never had problems with depression. Lucky you. I hope no one close to you is ever in need of some condolence because you probably wouldn't know how to give it.

Why did he sign a record deal? Maybe he was naive. Lots of people have problems dealing with fame and everyone is different in how they deal with life's ups and downs. Some people just don't have the ability to deal with "normal" life, whatever that is. It has to do with brain chemistry, and when you bring drugs into the picture it just makes everything worse. What if he just ended up od-ing? Same thing, right? I'm almost sure he would have anyway.

That doesn't take away from the fact that he made great music that a lot of people loved. And it does suck for us to know that that wasnt enough for him to continue with his life. Then again there are the theories that he didn't kill himself... However from what I've read and seen in the documentary "Kurt and Courtney", she was very controlling and that might have driven him to kill himself. Sometimes I think he couldn't bear the fact that he brought a child into this world in the first place. Some people believe he was going to quit the business and divorce Courtney, take her out of his will, etc... and she didn't want that to happen.

The point is, we don't know what really happened AND everyone is different in terms of their ability to deal with life in general. Unfortunately, he chose to self-medicate with heroin instead of getting professional help for depression. My father is pretty much in the same situation. I'm pretty sure he has severe anxiety/depression and he has no concept of what that is. No one ever thought, gee, Mike seems to have a problem with anger, he's drinking too much, etc. He's been in a cycle of gambling and alcoholism for as long as I can remember. He has diabetes. It's really sad. He wont stop drinking to take his medication, no matter what we say or do.

From http://www.nirvanaclub.com/

minneapolisgenius said:

Gotta concur with everything you said, MinneG.

PEJ said:

Nah, it's all good. (You too Jessy!) It's a valid opinion. I was just feelin a little emotional about it and all. If I'd've started a thread about my gandma dying and someone started pointing out her flaws, I'd be pissed. But I realize he's a public figure and once you bring that into it I guess it's all open game.

Vina- I appreciate your words and share your point of view about depression. (Also, sounds like our Dad's have a lot in common.) You stated it far better than I ever could.

MinneG- I hear what you're saying. I think the JFK analogy was more of a "we'll all remember where we were when we heard the news" kinda thing. As for all the other bands, yeah, I was listening to them too. Nirvana wasn't even one of my favorites (I was more of a Cure, Love & Rockets, Depeche Mode kinda gal). Maybe it was my age or where I was at at the time that just struck the right chord.

ya know i luvs ya, girlie! and if ya didn't , now ya do!

CarrieMpls said:

(for our dads)

VinaBlue said:

First off sorry about your dad that takes alot I'm sure 2 speak about it. (I do mean that) So with that I'm not insensitive....yes I don't sit here and make up reasons 4 a persons like Kurt . He picked his drugs 4 God only know reasons. So I do call it like it is and No I ain't feeling sad seeing I've been through more then "U" can ever know yet I always had the sense and willpower not 2 make it worse by being a junkie....That says what.... And 4 those who were in need I have been there 4 them and other cases who were in need of help that I didn't even know...so speak from what U truly know and not off of what U think, or how U put it(guessing).... seeing U couldn't B further from the facts regarding me.


Its up 2 whoever wants 2 have a soft heart towards those who pick there wicked ways ....If they except the help they need 4 change then fantastic but when they don't respect life itself and toy with it...then why should I have respect 4 them...?? ( U reap what U sow)

But hey feel about me as U like...I'm not on here 2 get buddy buddy with U? If U don't like straight firm talk then its on U....I don't see any future in nursing bullshit... perhaps U do? more power and "no bad feelings I respect U speaking up"....issue on this thread is dead as the subject matter~~~~

Mynameisspmarc said:

Exactly. I'm sorry, but I'm tired of Kurt being portrayed as The Victim. Drug abuse is something he certainly didn't need to do himself, but killing himself shows selfishness when he should have saved his daughter from a hellish life above all else. You have kids, you ARE responsible for them. Kurt is accountable for his actions, and his choices are not a good reflection of his character. I can't respect Kurt based on his choices. For the same reason I don't respect Whitney Houston and Bobby Brown and what they're doing to their daughter. Unfortunately, Frances is stuck where she is. She doesn't have the luxury of choice, she has the misfortune of circumstance.

And musically, this guy is relevant simply because he died. The grunge movement came and went, and if he had perished in '97 or '98 (no doubt Nirvana-mania would have waned by then, just like it does with every Musical Style Of The Moment). He's no lost genius; he's no Jimi Hendrix.

Label me "insensitive" if you like, but don't think I'm unaware of Kurt's depression. Hundreds of thousands of people cope with similar circumstances (mild to extreme depression) every day in America. They get help. They don't shoot heroin. And they take care of their kids the best they can.
[This message was edited Wed Apr 7 21:00:33 2004 by VoicesCarry]

Oh and 2 the rest of U who I left out...relax thats how I feel so dig it or not. Lifes hard so ride it...All this glam look back at his unfinished life is why he didn't want 2 B around living in the first place....shit 2 put him up as a topic now will make him wanna kill off his spirit next. Whats left when thats gone??

If your gonna feel sorry 4 someone try his kid.....

CarrieMpls said:

Supernova said:

I honestly cant say where I was when I heard that Kurt had killed himself. But Tupac, I remember like it was yesterday....sitting on the toilet at my brothers place enjoying another smooth bowel movement....and then I heard the news, messed up my flow for the rest of the night.

MrLovesexy said:

Well, I was just reading into what you were saying based on my personal experience. You're right, I don't know you. My point is that it's a totally different story when it's a close relative that is in a downward spiral. Sure, I would have the same opinion about a drug addict, but when it's someone you care about, it gets hard to say "fuck em, they chose their way."



I don't know you well enough to have negative or positive feelings about you personally. It's a foul thing to say "I hope he's slow cooking in hell". Of course, we are ALL guilty of wishing evil on people we don't like. I can respect "straight firm talk". You're right, there is no future in nursing bullshit, that's probably why my father doesn't call me anymore. I stopped loaning him money for his gambling habit a while back. 20 years was enough.

No bad feelings here, I'm just expressing the other side of the coin. I think there is a balance that can be attained between our viewpoints, but neither one of us is going to budge much.

we love u kurt.

I don't know you well enough to have negative or positive feelings about you personally. It's a foul thing to say "I hope he's slow cooking in hell". Of course, we are ALL guilty of wishing evil on people we don't like. I can respect "straight firm talk". You're right, there is no future in nursing bullshit, that's probably why my father doesn't call me anymore. I stopped loaning him money for his gambling habit a while back. 20 years was enough.

No bad feelings here, I'm just expressing the other side of the coin. I think there is a balance that can be attained between our viewpoints, but neither one of us is going to budge much.

[/quote]
Yeah well thank U 4 that, and Your right as well....I 2 re-read that one thing I wrote what U quoted & wondered where that came from myself? If I recall I was in a bad mood I guess and running into this thread....I got raw writing that. I never claimed 2 B perfect.....but apart of my hothead outllook... I'm a parent and doing what I have 2, & B a positive role model in there life. When I'm down I have 2 play it off and fight on U know? Show them no matter what hits U in life U can fight back, and with faith our personal storms will pass 4 the sun 2 shine on a new day.

When a parent 4 any reason brings a new life in this world its up 2 them 2 do all that it takes and go through hell and 2 the heavens if thats on the menu 2 experience ....cuz thats how life is. And I would never put that deep inner mark of pain on a child who has 2 already grow up in a crazy world...that gives a kid a ball & chain 2 carry in some form 4 the rest of his/her life. They never ask 2 B born in such a nasty mess....so unfair And such a huge crime that its very sad when it happens....so I guess as U look at it from your side (I do respect and understand) I gaze through a childs eye that was born from a parent who loves his own like no-other.

And once again my prayer 2 U and your dad as well as your family. I can tell U really love him alot and its been hurting U 2 have 2 go through the years dealing with this...keep your head up...

PS I'm always open 2 budge...