Neversin.

NIN is shit.

NIN is The Shit.

Did I just double post? And quote myself?!?
[This message was edited Thu Mar 11 8:58:54 2004 by Novabreaker]

NIN owns. I'm sick of this "soon" shit. Hopefully we'll get the new album before 2020...

Novabreaker said:

Posting issues aside ,

I don't dig NIN because I think they're some kind of genuine industrial music experience - I just think it's good, noisy pop music. Got a problem widdat?

I'd really like to see them live. I should have gone to the MSG show a few years ago. Fuckin Manson came out at the end to do Starfuckers and The Beautiful People. I really should have gone.

Anxiety said:

Oh come on, you can buy NIN baseball caps at the mall. If that ain't pop, what is?

Thanks for the info..

Anxiety said:

Anxiety said:

Nawh not really. I'm an indusdtrial (so hard to spell) music fan and post regularily at places like rec.music.industrial and others. So whenever I see a NIN mention at the .org I like to play our "NIN sucks!" game just for my own amusement.

No, NIN really is REAL industrial music as far as the music goes (much more than most "real" industrial music if I'm honest - Lassigue Bendthaus anyone?). As for the baseball caps, NIN isn't on the other hand a very good example of the industrial subculture...

AND THAT'S WHAT PEOPLE LIKE US HATE!!!

Neversin said:

Thanks for the info, Neversin! I'm glad to hear about the direction he's going. "leaner" is exactly what he needs. "Fragile" had soem good stuff, but it was just too all over the place, and way too pretentious. If he had pared it down to a single album, it could have been NIN's best.

Novabreaker said:

NIN isn't industrial, it's just noisy experimental pop music... If you wanna hear some real industrial check out some early 1970's, hard to find though, David Lynch stuff... Or just listen to the soundtrack of "Eraserhead"...
Some people call that stuff "Ambient" but they're just wrong...

Neversin.

Novabreaker said:

Feh, if I cared about being part of a genuine hardcore subculture, I'd go Amish or something.

Neversin said:

I think I've spent a lifetime's worth of loan that would have been supposed to finance my studies on industrial records to know what industrial is. Thank you.

On the other hand, I'm really offended by your way of attempting to teach me of my beloved genre of music by using vague expressions such as "some early 1970's" and even DARING to use a word like "soundtrack" in my face! That's just dirty.

And on a further note, you just got that definition of "industrial" you presented out of a Trent Reznor interview itself! Try to perk up a little if you're that ardent to impress people with useless information , okay?

The correct term for NIN would be, however, "industrial rock" or "industrial metal" (some jakckasses also refer to it as "darkwave"). It's a mainstream subgenre of industrial music.

Anxiety said:

You'd probably get as little sex that way as I do now!

Novabreaker said:

Spend more cos you obviously don't have a clue to what industrial music is...


I don't mean "soundtrack" as in "album with music of some movie", I'm talking about the actual soundtrack running through the movie...


First of all, I didn't present you with some definition of "Industrial"...
And secondly, show me in what interview Trent Reznor said that David Lynch made Industrial music... I just said NIN makes "noisy, experimental pop music", and it's pretty obvious that they do...


A subgenre eh... LMMFBAO!
Industrial is something entirely different, just because people once labeled NIN and the likes as "Industrial" doesn't mean it is... I'd rather call it "Alternative Rock"...
You probably think that the music that is labeled "R&B" these days is actual "R&B"...

Neversin.

Now you're just behaving like a total jerk.


To quote Blixa Bargeld, one of the most important industrial musicians ever (and if you don't know who Blixa Bargeld is, please don't read any further and go to bed instead):

"What was called originally Industrial music has nothing to do with what is called Industrial music now."

And here lies the confusion. The music has just evolved so drastically into different subgenres since its birth that is hard for anyone to define what exactly is in fact industrial music anymore. It was inevitable as the original was so devoid of structure that if you wanted to expand on it - there was no other way than take it towards other traditions of modern music. I am not sure if you are aware of what later subgenre definitions such as EBM, IDM, Power Noise, Power Electronics, Death Industrial, Futurepop/Synthpop, Darkwave/Coldwave, Neofolk etc (as trivial as listing them here might seem) stand for but put together they form a very brand spectre of different styles that have very little in common - other than perhaps the fact that the bands regularily use so-called "industrial sounds" to their music and share much of the same audience. Hence industrial's status as more of a musical subculture than as a definitive musical style.

Some acts, however, can be seen as "more industrial" than others, or better said, "more true to the original idea of industrial music" regarding how far they have stretched their writing style from the original ones like Throbbing Gristle (Which was one of the bands you were originally referring to, right? Altough certainly not that hard to find if you know where to look from). But this doesn't outdo the fact that people are using the word "industrial" regularily and it forms an actual, active musical genre. Also the members of those original industrial groups went on to do the more modern branch of industrial in their later projects and never stopped to call it industrial. I think I might respect their views a lot more than yours.

Are you really trying to claim that the people who actually make or buy this music are just plain wrong using the term just because you say so? Someone who uses a mainstream hack like David Lynch to justify his views on a very low-profile subculture? C'mon. At least, quote a few actual names that are linked with this type of music if you want to have any sort of credibility. Do you even own one single album by those original industrial groups to back up yourself?

Should also we also stop calling funk music funk because the term originally meant a branch of jazz, not James Brown? That's just silly. Besides post-industrial was so derivative term very few would care to use it. Hell there is even a band called The Ukranians, which mixes EBM with traditional Ukranian folk songs. Still industrial... sort of...

As calling the music "industrial rock" seemed to cause such an outright burst of laughter on your behalf, I suspect you really haven't gotten acquinted with much industrial music but still feel the need to lecture on it (beats me why). And as for NIN's status as industrial music - well some of it is, some of it isn't. It's more approprately called "industrial rock", because it quite obviously mixes elements of original industrial music with what is more or less straightforward rock songwriting. It's quite simple "industrial" and "rock" put together. That shouldn't cause problems for anyone.

What I think of the quality of NIN's music is a different thing altogether, but irrelevant regarding this question.

Here's a pic what a real industrial band from the 70's looks like:



Pretty goth, don't you think? One of the guys is actually a woman these days.



Try to spot the right one.