JANFAN4L said:

I will say this as a white guy: we basically don't have any culture. We like to steal it, reshape it and claim it as our own, conveniently forgetting its origins.

Essentially we have given the world Victorian pomposity, Tammy Faye and Freud. Yay!

DavidEye said:

I Agree David. But what set me off was the word "racism" being applied to those who didn't want Justin hosting. If someone doesn't want him hosting due to his skin color I'll admit that is bigotry but using the term racsism shows a lack of understanding in what racism truely is. I would have no problem with a cat like remy hosting the show (we know that will never happened since he's not mainstream enough) or Teena Marie. This is not a race issue to me. I'm just tried of white people laying in wait and quick to label something "reverse racism" And for those of you who aren't "angrey white men" maybe you should be more careful how you rep yourself. Because if it barks I can only assume it's a dog.

intha916 said:

I see your point, but racism is defined as racial prejudice or discrimination ie. just a refined form of bigotry. So how is someone claiming that they didn't want Justin to host "because he's white" not racist? Not "angry white man" talking here, just something I need clarified and from a different perspective perhaps. I don't like racism in any form, so some anti-Justin comments I found disturbing I suppose.
[This message was edited Wed Feb 25 10:17:35 2004 by VoicesCarry]

VoicesCarry said:

Whites have culture, too. It's just that in the name of assimilation, many choose to hide or downplay their ethnicities in order to secure a proper place within the white/Western superstructure.

I think Chris Rock should host the show and really turn all this nonsense inside out!!

JANFAN4L said:

I agree. I think that white/Western culture puts much too much emphasis on assimilation. People end up denying what and who they are so they can fit the stereotype - and don't like themselves for it. Especially in America (it's a little better in Canada - we like to think we're multicultural but we still deny the aboriginal and Inuit cultures and go to great lengths to subjugate them - and a lot better in some other countries).
[This message was edited Wed Feb 25 10:31:20 2004 by VoicesCarry]

VoicesCarry said:

Racism has become an institutions in this country. Prejudice ingrained itself in so many social and civil institutions in a country, it became a powerful force that we have all learned to live with. Many of the ways in which this effects our daily lives, are so subtle most people (white and black) don’t give it a second thought. It’s very easy to recognize overtly physical and verbal attacks as racist. But assuming it ends there is to underestimate the true evil that is racism. I can’t explain it to you here in a few neat paragraphs. Much of what I see comes from life experience and then researching the cause of such attitudes. One thing I find very interesting is how people assume that a person speaking out against racism is black. While I have some HAITIAN blood in my family and have many brown skin family members (including my wife and children), most people would assume I am “white” when they meet me. This has given me an extraordinary interesting peak into “the white world”. The way white folks act when they think “it’s only us around”. VoicesCarry, I’m sure I would find you are a cool person if we ever sat down and talked. But you have to understand, many things you say and do can rep the conditioning you have been given growing up in this society. I don’t think you are a bad person by any stretch. It’s simple you, along with many others in this country, simplify what they don’t understand. Sorry but things aren’t as “Black and White” (pun intended) as you think they are. Ok now this shit has officially gone deeper than I want to go today

Sdldawn said:

As I see it, and as I've said before, it's a LABEL issue to me, first and foremost. Regardless of what happened at the Super Bowl, A Jive artist should not have been called on to host a Motown special. They should have asked a Motown artist of similar age to do it and build a profile for him/herself.

I am glad Justin pulled out of the event. And I don't think that you and SquirrelMeat have considered the fact that the "blacklash" against Justin is not on the basis of race.

The guy's music is bought by black folk (like me), and as a result, his music is played on black radio, BET, VH1 Soul, and other outlets aimed at black audiences. He was nominated for a frickin' Soul Train music award. He identified with the black community really strong, and before the Super Bowl flap, most black folk wouldn't have minded one bit.

Then when the SB backlash hit, despite the fact that a friend and a black icon (and sibling of 5 motown legends) was being severely berated for an incident that they both planned and participated in, Justin bailed out to save his own image with "mainstream" America. When the heat came on him, instead of saying, "y'all shouldn't be too hard on Janet, I am to blame too" (something that I would think a friend would do), he caved. It didn't come across as very brave to a lot of black folk. Despite his enormous popularity, he was afraid to stand up for arguably the most beloved black female singer of the last 2 decades, despite the fact that her friendship earned him respect among black fans. Both of them were wrong and stupid for doing it, but only one paid a steep price.

So you see, blacks are mad at Justin not because he's a white soul singer. It's because they perceive, rightly or wrongly, that he went out like a punk.

namepeace said:

Yep. He's a punk bitch.

namepeace said:

exactly

namepeace said:

I think most of what you said is dead on. However, I pose the question how would any of us reacted had we been told that one thing was going to happen, and then a decision was made with your knowledge to take it further. Anyone who has ever heard Justin in an interview knows that this kid is no punk, I really think it pissed him off that it was more than he was told it was going to be. I know I would have been.
[This message was edited Wed Feb 25 15:37:08 2004 by EverlastingNow]

It's a business, Janet should have gotten her ass on the Grammy's and apologized, Justin did so he has been found less culpable. They both were wrong, Justin did not punk out, ,he just took responsiblity for his actions. Not saying that Janet didn't, but the Grammy move would have gone a long way to putting this behind her.

And of note, I have never heard Janet defend Justin in her interviews, so don't put the oness on Justin.

EverlastingNow said:

That's fair.

But it seems that it went too far because 1) Janet didn't think it through and 2) Justin botched the execution of the gag. In any event, it may have made Justin upset, but like you say, "he's no punk," and he could have balked at doing it in the first place. Once the deed was done, he just seemed to distance himself from his friend Janet. That came across very badly to black folk.

But I understand where you're coming from.

popgodazipa said:

actually justin DID punk out. Access Hollywood showed him saying how great he thought it all was immediately afterwards. He didn't say...Oops, i didn't know the top was going to come off..or whatever. He only acted surprised and appalled once the heat was on. He is a punk.

Janet doesn't need to defend Justin since the world came down on her.

Here's an analogy:

Justin Timberlake is the white guy who joins the blacks in the kitchen. He's okay with being in the kitchen with blacks while they sing and dance and everything runs smooth. But let's say the blacks in the kitchen do something that makes the master in the living room angry. The master turns up the heat in the kitchen so hot that everybody gets overheated. They're in the kitchen sweating and stewing.

So, Justin leaves his black friends sweating and stewing in the kitchen and rejoins the master in the comfy living room for a while until things cool off. As soon as the master eases up on the heat in the kitchen a little and the sweating is over, Justin tries to creep back into the kitchen to be with his black friends again.

Only the blacks who suffered in the kitchen notice that Justin was all too ready to abandon them when the heat got too hot. They suffered the heat in the kitchen. Justin slipped out of the kitchen and went to the nice, cool living room to ride it out.