twink69 said:

what a fucken rat.

First of all, what kind of idiots do not rehearse a "costume reveal"? I'm sure Britney has rehearsed a ton of them.

Also, Britney has done waaayyy more tasteless things, yet she always kept from going "all the way". Now we see a nipple, and the line is crossed. It doesn't matter that it was only for a second on tv, because with technology today someone had a picture and someone enlarged it and posted it all over the internet.

Another reason I think Justin's parents were offended by this (and never by anything Britney ever did) is that Janet is black and older than Justin. Just a thought.

I didn't understand this either when I heard it on the radio this morning.

He made it seem like he didn't have a choice but to rip off her top. Like Janet pulled a Rick James on him and made his ass do it. What a pussy.

VinaBlue said:

There! It has been said, the race-card has been played! As an European, I am laughing my ass off about the commotion this thing has created! You americans are such stuck-up people! Maybe y'all should relax more and see things in a lighter perspective.
Meanwhile, the USA is the number-1 porn-industrial in this world, and everybody's choking on a ugly boob with a pierced nipple...lighten up, America, and I'm sure that the world will like you more!

SassierBritches said:

Eggs-xaaactly!!!

I was listening to Hot 97 this morning and they played his back-peddling, sell-out speech back to back with what he said immediately said after the stunt. Something about it being "fun, quick, and to the point."

The radio personalities were suggesting that listeners log on to Justin's website and give him a piece of their minds.

abierman said:

Remember, we live in a liberal country, America is still fed loads of prejudice, look at Bush comments on same sex marriages.

And listen to what Kelly Ozbourne said; she thought it was weak of Janet® not to show both her breasts.

gooeythehamster said:

Gooey, I assume that no influential government-people are posting here on the .org, yet I see people getting hyped up about this stupid little incident. Meanwhile, on Times Square, there is a 100 ft. high billboard of Jenna Jameson, with her 36DD boobies in skimpy bikini's on it. Should I explain who Jenna Jameson is? She is the reigning queen of porn! Fucking hypocrites!

abierman said:

hey now, don't lump us all together in one group. Some americans are stuck up people...just like some (in every country) are stuck up people. i think america has so many issues that the officials don't know where to begin. someone, somewhere, got it in their head that janet's boob is the core of all this

if some of these old fuckers would give up their positions and let a new generation follow into them, things would be very different.

abierman said:

Get the fuck over "pulling the race-card" shit! The bottom line is that that shit exists! ALWAYS HAS AND ALWAYS WILL...damn. Last time I checked, Justin was the one who ripped the damn blouse off and then tried to blame it all on Janet like he didn't have a choice in doing so. PLEASE! I don't see CBS snatching his invitation to the Grammy's next week. Janet was only fucking INTRODUCING an artist and she can't even attend. So, yes, the damn race card is being played here because that's the REALITY of America.

okaypimpn said:

i'm actually amazed that a bigger deal has yet to be made about the fact that the white boy (who blamed he black woman for everything) is cool to attend but the black woman must be punished. especially since both artists are saying that the red bustier was supposed to remain.

why believe justin's story and not janet's? seems kinda strange to me.

SassierBritches said:

well maybe Janet was craving for some much needed publicity (new album coming out, last one bombed)and thought that Justin is the right man to do it with because he's hot now, and overestimated the american public/media...? You never know how a Jackson thinks these days...

abierman said:

are you even for real? all for you, in america alone, sold over 2 million copies. with over 600,000 in its first week of release, all for you showed janet her 2nd biggest first week sales. say what you will about the record but don't deny fact.

SassierBritches said:

Not strange at all, Sassier. Just white-a-fuckin'-merica and a damn shame at that.

SassierBritches said:

Thank you.

abierman said:

I totally agree with you. I hardly EVER pull the race card. I'm just saying that might be Justin's parents logic, which wouldn't surprise me. I pulled the age card as well and heck, I forgot the gender card. It's ok for an older man to date a younger woman, but not an older woman with a younger man, ya know... (I'm being sarcastic) That's how some people think.

I'm laughing about it all too. I mean, what do people expect? Britney has been teasing FOREVER, revealing every inch of her body, yet stoping short of her nipples, pubic hair and asshole. The constant titilation is rediculous. And then when an "accident" like this happens, America is in an uproar. It's quite hypocritical. Yep, porn rules in America. We are so ashamed of liking sex we have to pretend we don't like it and then buy pornos.


[This message was edited Thu Feb 5 9:10:05 PST 2004 by VinaBlue]

"pull 'the race' card"???


WHAT???


Vina making the point she did hardly qualifies as "pulling the 'race' card"!?!?!


I don't know the ethnicity of the person here who 1st mentioned "race card" in this thread-
to me, that detail is UNIMPORTANT.

in the "bigger picture",
it's STRANGE how some caucasian people see any non-caucasian person mentioning ethnicity
(DON'T ya'll keep buying into that "race" lie!)
as "playing the 'race' card",
when some- NOT all- caucasians in this country - mainly politicians
(surprise, surprise)
"pull the 'race' card" whenever it serves them..


that said,
I think that this "hypocritical/puritanical" segment of the US would have reacted..
ALMOST
as strongly had it been Britney or Christina instead of Janet..

for there are indeed many people who are "uncomfortable" with or intimidated by

"black sexuality"

[for the record, I stopped saying "black" years ago.. but for the sake of this post only, I used it)

& those who are "uncomforatable" with it will attack it & criticize it whenever they can. too bad for them- life is too short.

I'm surprised that Justin's & Janet's complexion didn't come up before now..


there probably is something to be said to about the "age difference" between Janet & Justin, about the so-called "novelty" (or lack of acceptance?) of "older woman-younger man" relationships..
but of all the angles that can be exploited in this situation, I think the "age thing" will be least exploited & discussed.


then, for this "US hypocracy"..

in a way, it's hard to determine because on the 1 hand the NFL & all the "major" tv networks.. they all do want to have it both ways - they want to be "edgy" & "provocative" yet they want to still have the "respect" of "middle America"

MTV clearly cares less about "middle America", but they too-
at least occasionally-
want to show some semblance of "responsibility" while being as "provocative" (& often tasteless) as they can get away with..


1 of the things I really loved about living in Europe-
France, to be more precise-
is that there, people generally do have much fewer "hangups" about sex & nudity. mimimally, they have a more "reasonable" perspective on these subjects, in part becauase these cultures are "older" than the relatively "adolescent" US culture-
the current US reaction to "the Janet thing" could easily be compared to how a "typical" 14-year old boy reacts to seeing.. a breast..

just now, my friends in France are starting to ask me "why are you Americans making a big deal about 1 second of a woman's breast on tv?"

the best I can offer is that, um, well..
there are children watching this
(& granted, the "sexplay" between Justin & Janet could be called "inappropriate enough" for some children..)
but really..

we're talking about a part of the human body..

which- in & of itself- should be seen as a beautiful thing.

then again, unfortunately, there are enough "bad people" who can & do objectify & reduce the human body to something less than what it should be..


hm.
it's really about time for me to move back to Europe,
& it's not only because of "nipplegate 2004"..

abierman said:

hand claps and finger snaps to you!

mltijchr said:

Thanks. Glad someone understood my point.


I wasn't sure if I should say black, but I wanted to keep it simple and not get too wordy. I was expressing what I thought were someone else's views anyway.


Someone did bring it up earlier, maybe I can find the thread. I recall someone saying its a race thing, and I thought that was rediculous.

Well said!

Sooo true.


My boyfriend keeps bugging me to move to Paris with him.

mltijchr YOU ROCK!
[This message was edited Thu Feb 5 11:17:05 PST 2004 by VinaBlue]

aw.. thanks Vina!

I do believe I know what you were trying to say, & in seeing your point I just added some of my own perspective &.. that was it!


then..
DO YOURSELF

&

YOUR BOYFRIEND A FAVOR..


& MOVE TO PARIS!



I promise you, you won't be disappointed!

yeah, there are TOO MANY tourists there from April thru late September..
but really, almost everything about that city is great!
it's like I read somewhere :

"if Paris did not already exist, she would have to be invented.."
& even then..
you have to see her to believe her!


even if you can't "move" there, then I strongly recommend that you arrange to spend as much time there as you can!

I know Parisians have a reputation for being "rude", but really, they aren't any worse than how New Yorkers are typically (mis)perceived..
I personally haven't had even an "awkward" experience with Parisians..
but then again, I do speak French fluently & I know "more than a litte" of the "local slang"..

then speaking of "speaking".. SO MANY of the French there speak English.. you don't have to be in such a hurry to learn French..
but DEFINITELY, your experience will be 100 times better if you learn to speak French.


I'll be in Paris again myself-
sometime in either late April or early May!
I can't wait!

the last time I was there-
November 10-
I fell TOTALLY IN LOVE with Paris, all over again!

that's the thing about Paris:

once she decides to seduce you, that it!
you're seduced!



Vina:
stay beautiful,
stay positive,
stay creative!


signed,
1 of your (many) org. admirers!

mltijchr said:

Aaawww... I've jacked a Janet thread!

I can parlez-vouz a little bit. (Did I do that right?) I only took 2 years of French in high school.

I'm'a be real here and state my opinions. Justin is a mark. He has always been a punk and someone who doesn't seem real. He doesn't deserve association with Janet or Michael.

When my friend and I were watching the Super Bowl and he came out as the surprise guest we were like "oh, goddd" in a disappointed sense. When Janet was shoving her butt into his crotch my friend was like "Janet! Don't do that, he is too good for you!" Janet has always been classy yet SENSUAL. I think the media is portraying her as some slut a la Madonna, Britney, Christina.

Janet has always been sensual in a beautiful way, I felt that the boob thing was wack. My real opinions were "why did she do that?" Yes, I'm a hardcore Janet fan (and will be for LIFE), but I was like, "why would she allow Justin's scraggly a** touch her like that." After the show I said to myself, "okay, she needs the publicity or whatever, make her Super Bowl performance memorable," yadda, yah, but all this media blacklash is just corny. I'm embarrassed for Janet. I'm mad that she let Justin touch her like that. Janet is a beautiful LADY (I emphasize lady, it connotes class and sophistication), an icon, and a wonderful soul. I still see her as such. I just didn't like seeing her, as a black woman, being hoed like that by some white fool. It's not cool. Still love Janet, but she should stay away from fake a** people like Justin (who's obviously looking out for his own selfish, self-interests). What a cornflake, seriously.

JANFAN4L said:

I agree that I was shocked to see Janet do such a thing, but the backlash is unnecessary, and I support her 100% for taking responsibilty for her actions.

JANFAN4L said:

If she's such a classy "lady", then what the fuck was she doing flashing America on live television?

Janet was awesome when she was sensual, and when she was tasteful, but this stunt seemed desperate. She lowered herself to the level of pole dancer.

I do think it's a bit prejudiced to say "I just didn't like seeing her, as a black woman, being hoed like that by some white fool. It's not cool." If it were a black guy, it would have been just as degrading. The fact that this was her stunt, PLANNED BY HER, also negates your point. She was whoring herself, and that's what I didn't like.
[This message was edited Thu Feb 5 14:31:57 PST 2004 by VoicesCarry]

hey Vina!


2 years in high school, that's better than
"no years at all, at any time in life"
!

I only did 3 years in high school myself,
but that was when I developed my passion for
(dare I say, "obsesion" with?)
the beautiful French language.. &..
the rest, as they say, was history!


if you move there, you'd be surprised how quickly you can pick up on many of the "basics".

it's like they used to say on the public tv education program "French In Action", featuring that voluptuous French blonde Valérie Allain :

"watch. listen. get involved."

yeah, you'd be surprised!


at the risk of making this post into a "mini mini French lesson"..

"parlez-vous" is, I think, a way Americans have "evolved" certain French expressions (believe me- the French have certainly borrowed from English!)..

"parlez-vous" is the inversion of..

"vous parlez"

which is, of course, the
"2nd person plural" or "polite" form of the English
"you speak"

when I learned French in high school, we were taught that you can invert the verb & its subject pronoun, when asking a question-
"parlons-nous", "parles-tu", "parle-t-elle", etc-
but in "real" spoken French, spoken by "real French people"..
it's rare to hear them invert the subject pronoun & its verb form..
typically, a French person will simply ask:
"vous parlez anglais?" instead of "parlez-vous anglais?"
with "vous parlez anglais?", you know it's a question because the intonation (the "tone") of the voice rises at the end the question.. that's how you know it's a question & not a statement..

the few times I've inverted the sub.pro & the verb, I've gotten strange looks (& often smiles) from Frenchies..
now, every now & then, I'll say something like that..
JUST to get that type of reaction from them!

SO,
what you said was cool, & any French person who's been at all "exposed" to Americans..
they would probably know what you meant!


of all the foreign languages an American can learn,
French is the easiest, in my opinon. the grammar is quite similar; both languages have the same alphabet (different pronunication, of course); then you have those words like

chateau
hotel
restaurant
video
etc., which are also the same (again, except for the pronunciation)

& then words like
absoluement = absolutely
hôpital = hospital
intéressant = interesting
urgence = emergency
etc., whose French equivilants you could in most cases recognize right away because they are so close to their English counterparts..


so really-
if you are motivated enough,
you only have to change the spelling of some of the words,
& pronounce them différament (!),
& you can be "parler-ing" le français before you know eet!



Vina, I really hope you'll be able to go to France-
& stay awhile! you can't even begin to imagine the positive effect it will have on you!


ah!
to um, "bring this back" to the "original" topic..

I've heard Janet attempt to speak a little French in a few of her songs..
she needs some practice, too!

theVelvetRoper said:

Janet's being real. I'm glad she is. She didn't know sh*t was gonna get this "deep." The way the media is handling it is mad corny. I've already filed a complaint to the FCC, CBS and the Grammys.

VoicesCarry said:

You can not "like" whatever you choose to dislike.

JANFAN4L said:

That's very profound. You obviously did not appreciate it, either. Now about responding to what I actually said...
[This message was edited Thu Feb 5 14:41:39 PST 2004 by VoicesCarry]

VoicesCarry said:

Whether she truly meant to whore herself is still up for debate, but I will say that regardless of what the intentions were, Timberlake agreed to do the choreography and is therefore an accomplice to the whole mess. That being said, I strongly believe that if Janet has been disinvited, Justin should be disinvited as well. If CBS is trying to set a so-called standard, showing the world that that will not tolerate these sorts of antics at the expense
of American morality, then the young man should be held "acountable" just as much as the woman is. Sounds fair to me...

twink69 said:

Thanks for the reminder. People forget that way too quickly that is more of a media whore than Janet could ever hope to be! Shit, I'm surprised he didn't take his top off, the hooker!