intha916 said:


True. But with what Maxwell's accomplished, that statement of greatness could apply to almost anybody. It could certainly apply to D'Angelo by the same criteria. Or Erykah. Even Raphael Saadiq would make a stronger argument.

Don't get me wrong. If you check my profile, you'll find Maxwell listed amongst my favorite artists but you've got the comparison twisted. Marvin can't be compared to Maxwell. It's Maxwell who hasn't justified the comparison to Marvin.

At least not yet.
[This message was edited Tue Dec 23 15:21:48 PST 2003 by violator]

violator said:

And that takes it back to the argument I would rather have. And I'm more than happy to fight that fight. You say that argument could be made for anyone but then can only name a handful of people. That's because you can't really say that about just anyone. Very few have had the impact Maxwell had right out of the box. Even though Saadiq has built his work through time, I would say he's the cat I would list up there with Maxwell but he has yet to give us one piece of work as complete as UHS.

intha916 said:

And all I said is that Maxwell ain't great yet! So guess we agree, huh?

intha916 said:

"Greatness" is a matter of opinion, not fact. You asked me for my OPINION. Don't start a war because my opinion doesn't correlate with yours .

I don't even consider Embrya to be Maxwell's best album. That would have to be Urban Hang Suite, which is one of the best modern R&B albums.
[This message was edited Tue Dec 23 15:52:53 PST 2003 by VoicesCarry]

intha916 said:

What impact has Maxwell had?

And I stopped at those handful to illustrate the point that it in fact does apply to quite a few folks. But maybe that point was lost. So to go a bit further:

Jill Scott? Musiq? Lauryn Hill? Alicia Keys?

Your point is a subjective one. And when you discuss musical 'impact', you can't be subjective.

intha916 said:

You act as if urban R&B was dead before Maxwell came on the scene, which it wasn't. Maxwell added nothing new to the mix, IMHO. He took what came before him, mixed it up a bit, and voila. Not that there's anything wrong with that, it just does not really signify an 'impact' for me. But to each his own.
[This message was edited Tue Dec 23 15:58:59 PST 2003 by VoicesCarry]

not prolific enuff 2 be a legend...he has been out almost 10 yrs and he has released 3 albums.

No legendary status yet
try next 4 albums then i might agree.

Yoda

VoicesCarry said:

Not the point and I'm not trying to "start a war". You just stated that Maxwell was "content in his groove" My point is Embrya (not saying it's his best either) is nothing like UHS. It showed he was willing to take another root after a sucessful first album. I think this shows he wasn't just "content in his groove". As for Outkast, I would put Andre in the same category as Maxwell. A cat who has a huge upside but isn't there yet. The only difference is, Maxwell has crafted more "real" music up to this point. Andre is learning on the job so-to-speak.

violator said:

Does Jill write her own music? School me if she does cause I really don't know. Lauryn I would give you but she fell off the map and hasn't been heard from since. Musiq, please. Alicia, double please

VoicesCarry said:

You know what, it pretty much was dead. I still remember the impact that album (UHS) had on me when I first heard it. Other than Rashaan Patterson and groups like Lo Key, Brand New Heavies and Mint Condition, nobody was making what I consider real R&B. Then comes this cat Maxwell out of Nowhere and releases and album more complete in a soulful sense than any of the people I mentioned above. See the thing is people's musical tastes are all over the place today. Maxwell seems to be most appreciated by old school cats like myself. We remember the time when there were lots of "Maxwells" out there. That just ain't the case today. He isn't coming with the moody and boring "neo soul" bullshit (D'Angelo, Bilal, Musiq, Erica) or the watered down "urban" sound of 112, Jagged Edge, R Kelly, etc. Maxwell comes tight grooves and hooks that remind us what shit used to sound like when you turned on the radio back in the day. But he still manages to keep it fresh without sounding like he's just a copy cat act. So I think we hold dude in a little higher respect than y'all do. We're happy to have anyone like that out there at this point.

intha916 said:

Jill does collaborate with other writers. As does Maxwell with Stuart Matthewman, Leon Ware and others.

Here's the thing, man. You and I agree in terms of the value of 'UHS'. My point is when you talk about the 'impact' Maxwell has had, especially in respect to an artist of the stature of Marvin Gaye, I don't know that you're talking about much at all.

I think, and I stated it above, that 'UHS' is a modern masterpiece. However, I don't know very many people that feel the same way. I know a lot of folks who like the album. Like it a lot, in fact. But I don't know many who hold it in the same regard I do to call it a masterpiece. Certainly it is not something that is critically recognized.

You dismiss Alicia Keys, well for whatever you may think about Alicia (and for the record I don't care much for her first album, haven't yet heard the second) she is by all accounts a talented pianist. She definitely writes her own music. She's outsold Maxwell. She's won multiple awards.

So, I ask you who's had more 'impact'?

intha916 said:

Guess it was dead in your mind, but not mine. Interesting.

violator said:

Just so you know, I wasn't trying to diss Jill at all. I just didn't know if she had a hand in her music is all because if she does, she deserves to be on the "list". As for Alicia, being a "talented pianist" doesn't make her a great artist. She has very poor song-writing skills (I've heard her new album and you aren't missing much) and I don't think she really does much of the production she is credited for. Even if she does, it's bland work at best. And the fact she's out sold Maxwell is irrelevant to the argument about creative impact. If Maxwell was pumped by Clive Davis from the outset he would have sold more records than he has, all be it at the expense of the quality of his music.

I'm going to give you the Marvin thing. I did forget about his early song-writting for Motown as well as his drumming. I still think we tend to look at a legandary artist from beginning to end when making comparisions like this but I'm going to let this one go and say you're right.

As for UHS being considered a classic, most people I know do think of it that way. Guess it's just he circles you move in because that's pretty much a given in my experience talking with other R&B lovers. Actually it kind of shocked me when I saw people on boards like these down playing it. But then again you find anti- anything on the internet. But I think you're wrong about one thing. Many critics do think of it in classic terms. I just went out there to look for a couple reviews and most say the same thing as the one below.

{Maxwell's debut offers up a sophisticated and stylized take on late-'60s and early-'70 soul. Sam Cooke, Marvin Gaye, Al Green, and the like are subtly referenced over the course of these 11 tracks of wide-screen soul. Mixing sensual funk with ballad sincerity, Maxwell coolly sings through highlights like "Welcome," "...Til the Cops Come Knockin'," and "Ascension (Don't Ever Wonder)." The atmospheric, cool-breeze soundscape comes courtesy of Maxwell and Sade cohort Stuart Mathewman. More expansive and airy sounding than the deep groove and gospel sides by fellow retro-soulster D'Angelo, Urban Hang Suite is destined to become a classic contemporary R&B disc. Stephen Cook}

Hell they even use the word "classic" in most of these reviews. I'm not trying to diss you because I think you and I are really on the same page. I just think you don't have a true vibe as to how many people feel about this album and Maxwell over all.

VoicesCarry said:

What us old schoolers think of as R&B was and in many cases is dead in terms of it being mass released. Sorry but people like R Kelly can't fill the void by left by greats like Earth, Wind & Fire and the like.

intha916 said:

Lol, no I wasn't suggesting that at all. Earth Wind And Fire are kind of on the Marvin Gaye legend scale for me too.

VoicesCarry said:

You got that straight. EWF are true legends. We'll we will end this there on a note of agreement. Have a great holiday!

Oh, Maxwell...

Maxwell is good.

I like Maxwell. Little too polished for my liking. He's no D'Angelo.

But then, D'Angelo is no Marvin so it's all relative.

No soul singer of today is even close to Stevie and Marvin.

Not even close, though I'm sure both Maxwell and D'Angelo think they're legends already.

DorothyParkerWasCool said:

Exactly! I absolutely adore that whole album. It has such
an incredibly relaxed vibe to it.

It sounds so plush and warm and moist.

Anyway, it certainly was one of the best albums to come
out of the 1990's for me as well.

fauxnewbie said:

That would explain the long breaks between albums (5 yrs for Dangelo).

violator said:

dont sleep on embrya

Scrapluv said:

Trust me, I haven't slept on anything the man has done. He's one of my favorite artists. But you don't make legendary albums by accident. As much as I love much of the material on 'Embrya', it is nowhere near as focused and cohesive a joint as 'Urban Hang Suite'.