I think that this disc would have been better if MJ hadn't tried to use so many producers and songwriters. It just doesn't have a unified vision, so the disc doesn't flow. There are some great moments (I think just about everyone, whether they loved or hated this disc, can agree that "Butterflies" is just a damned good song), but the whole thing comes across as rather plastic and uninspired.

My hope is that Michael will do something radically different next time, hopefully involving a producer who isn't the hip guy of the moment (someone up and coming would be better. How cool would it be for Michael to "discover" a great producer the way Madonna always does?)

AaronAlmighty said:

i agree.

Invincible IS Michael Jackson tradition music..aint nuthin changed. It takes off where Dangerous left off. Ten years of scandal has clouded.

rdhull said:

Okay, despite our differences in the past, I DO actually respect you Rdhull. I think the problem with this disc, as I stated earlier, is that there are just too many cooks in the kitchen. Some of it is incredible, but some is just plain bad. I really wanted to like this disc, because I was really hoping that people would start talking about Michael's music and performances again.

I'm glad you like it, however.

rdhull said:

well, it is the successor to Dangerous in that the whole thing isn't just a thematic variation on "Why You Wanna Trip On Me?" (as HIStory was), but there are, for my tastes, still too many "why's everybody always pickin' on me" songs.

the moments where he's just singing songs, like Butterflies, Speechless, Break Of Dawn, Heaven Can Wait are great... but so much of it falls back on the MJ cliches of the last 10-15 years of touchy feely Heal The World/Man In The Mirror/Childhood songs and the poor me Scream/Tabloid Junkie/Ghosts songs.

he relies so much on these that it's actually bizarre, on Invincible, to hear him singing actual down-to-eart love songs like Butterflies and Break Of Dawn and Speechless, though those are the moments on the album that are so satisfying.

JediMaster said:

I see where u are coming from, I just feel that the same oculd be said of Dangerous though...and thats hailed as one of his good ones as well..Invincible just seems like a natural albiet far behind progression of it music-wise.

AaronAlmighty said:

I agree too but I just think it aged well and didnt get the chance it was deserved at release..the songs that are cool remian that way--the production os good as well. But I have the same complaints usually about the sappy heal pick on me vibe he usually has but as I stated a few posts above..Invinvible "is" MJ music..aint nyuthin changed..he's been mixin the sap heal etc since Bad.

Come2getheras1 said:

I hear u on that

TheGillman said:

rdhull said:

yeah, i agree, and that's why i think that as it is, it isn't a great album, but could be with it's length cut down. there are just too many repeats of the cliched MJ stuff for the real gems to stand out.

rdhull said:

Well, while I liked "Dangerous", I've always been partial to the Quincy Jones stuff. I think Quincy had a knack for bringing out a passion in Michael that just can't be beat. I'm not saying he has to go back to working with Quincy, but I'd like him to work with a producer with a similar ability. (Feel free to offer suggestions).

I just really don't like Mike working with so many different people, as it makes the disc not seem to have a sound of its own (on the same disc you get a brilliant song like "Butterflies" and an awful tune like "2000 Watts". One of MJ's best and worst somehow make it into the same body of work, and I really think its because you had people with different visions all working on the same disc).

I'd really like to see Mike do something totally different, with a new producer. People have gotten so caught up in Michael's scandals and bizzare behaviour, that they've forgotten what an incredible talent he truly is. I'd like to see that change.

right on RD!!! great choice, MJ rocks!!

I love the INVINCIBLE album, it just shows that as far as "PURE" POP music, MJ is & always will be the KING!

Respect!

But there is always that discussion as to whether mj himself actually put much effort into this cd as he apparently knew tommy mottola was gonna sabotage it!

Maybe he just used up some of his filler tracks recorded the vocals gave them to some producers who worked on the whole thing and bam we have a new cd!

Reworked like this invincible would be much better

Unbreakable
Heartbreaker
Invincible
Break of Dawn
Heaven Can Wait
YRMW
Butterflies
Speechless
Dont Walk Away
The Lost Children
Whatever Happens
Threatened

i love 2000 watts

a friend made a dance mix cd for me and put it on there and it just totally rocks. it has great energy.

2000 watts sucks on rotten dead stinky dog balls for eternity.

It's still my second fave album of his.

And I like 2000 Watts, so...

'Invincible' is a great album,despite what many critics say.The slower tracks are amazing.I dare anybody to say that "Butterflies" isn't a good song.And songs like "Heaven Can Wait","Break Of Dawn" and the Santana collaboration "Whatever Happens" are top-notch,well-produced gems."Speechless" is just superb.

Some of the uptempo songs don't fare as well."Heartbreaker" sounds like something that N'Sync rejected,and "Privacy" is just awful.

But,as pop albums go,'Invincible' is a solid collection of songs.

DavidEye said:

Do you know, I've never liked that song. But I played that album last week and couldn't be bothered to skip the tracks I'm not fond of and I actually quite enjoyed it.

Maybe it's because I was at the time.

Cloudbuster said:

DavidEye said:

I know!

DavidEye said:

Im second that vomiting!

"Privacy" sucks hairy, puss-filled syphlitic donkey balls!

(But its still better than 2000 Watts).

jolajeph said:

What exactly is "PURE" pop? Is that anything like "PURE" crap? If so, I see the resemblance.

TheGillman said:

Whatever. If we all liked the same things then I'd be more like you. And, er...fuck that!


[This message was edited Thu Dec 11 5:58:56 PST 2003 by Cloudbuster]

rdhull said:

Still sucks.

Cloudbuster said:

Oh, just admit it! You wish you were me!!! I mean, I bang Kate Bush every night in her tight little ass! You only wish that you could spend a little time screwing her in her dutch oven!

Oh, and Kate says to tell you that "2000 Watts" blows goats!

I'm sorry but I'm one of those people that thought it was a bad album. The ballads were just terrible. I just think he is capable of so much more and should embrace more rock. All of the dance tracks sound a like. The beats were extermely repititous and it didn't actually sound like a song but more like something that belongs on a remix or something. It doesn't move like a song. All the songs kind of felt like that. "You Rock My World" isn't bad but it's just missing something. "Butterflies" wasn't bad. And of the upbeat tracks, "Invicible" was the best and should have been the first single (or a single at all).

VinnyM27 said:

"Butterlies wasn't bad"? Okay, I thought this album was a festering sore on the butt of Jacko's career, but I still think that Butterflies is one incredible song!

I thought "Invincible" was disappointing as a follow up to "Dangerous" and "HIStory", but in it's own context, it's far from being a bad album.

"Dangerous" and "HIStory" showed how he'd grown and matured as an artist. I challenge any of you to name me any tracks from his 'glory years' ("OTW", "Thriller" and "Bad") which are superior to "Who Is It", "They Don't Care About Us", "Morphine" and "Stranger In Moscow".

It's very telling that all his best work is stuff he's written entirely by himself (even the best song on Invincible, "Speechless", is one of only two he wrote without any outside co-writers/producers).

Anybody who believes Quincy was the mastermind behind MJ's glory years needs to take a listen to an early demo of "Billie Jean" available on the "Thriller" re-issue. This was way before Q touched the track, and it proves that it WAS Michael who came up with that killer bass, with that tight production and superb melody. The early demo is almost identical to the complete version.

"Invincible" isn't a bad album. Half of it is excellent ("Unbreakable", "Heaven Can Wait", "Speechless", "The Lost Children", "Whatever Happens"). I'm even partial to some of the "below par" tracks (there's something about his delivery of "You Are My Life" that gets me everytime).

What struck me with "Invincible" however, is the fact that there are at least three or four songs which are just completely below par for him. Not since "Girlfriend" and "I Can't Help It" have I heard an MJ album track as weak as "Privacy" and "Don't Walk Away". Man, those tracks really blow!

The album would be an excellent contemporary pop album if it was just a 12 track disc, like this:

Unbreakable
You Rock My World
Butterflies
Break Of Dawn
Heaven Can Wait
Speechless
Xscape
2000 Watts
You Are My Life
Whatever Happens
The Lost Children
Threatened

That album would've been his best "pop" release since "Bad". Artistically, nothing on the album comes close to rivalling his best work on "Dangerous" and "HIStory" (and the five new tracks on "Blood On The Dancefloor"), but it DID have the potential to be a really excellent pop album. It just got bogged down by too many producers and an awful tracklisting.

Marrk said:[quote]

TheGillman said:

I love Off The Wall, but there's more of that spazz in Invincible and he gave sum music that he wasnt expecting 2 in Invincible, where on Off The Wall, i expected all that stuff, maybe i didnt grow up in that time 2 maybe.

I thought it was somewhat better than bad because only "man In The Mirror" really showed emotion, "Liberian Girl" was cool, buti feel Break Of Dawn, Butterflies, Heaven Can Wait, and Dont Walk Away more. But if i was coaching a new MJ fan i would suggest Bad alot more only because of the videos and time period, plus it was in good length, but me, i was tired of all those songs (except Speed Demon & Just Good Friends)

History wasnt bad, but he was 2 mad. I really enjoyed Tabloid Junkie though, very intoxicating. It was a little 2 mechanical, i dont know. Angry record, weird ending.

all in all I put Invincible and Dangerous on a 2cd set basically. Some songs shouldve been left off (like Heartbreaker Invincible Cry The Lost Children & especuially 2000 Watts).