I wish every1 would just chill over this story as no official announcement has been made by the police, MJ himself doesnt have a clue what was goin until a few hours ago and the stories in the news are all just gossip and sensationalism!

Nobody knows shit until the announcement!

Also if MJ was to be arrested he would have been by now!

MJ's reaction to the situation was very calm even though he was angry at the press!

We all just have to wait and see, tho it seems very calculated to me

Allegations on the day a new album is released
The same people who hated him in 1993 remarkably make a return to tv within an hour of the story breaking
MJ is not at home when the search warrant is carried out, so that the 50 police cars can have fun on the rides at Neverland! Why the hell are 50 police needed to raid a house that size, despite what people think the house isnt that big!

I agree with you,we shouldn't rush to judgement.There will be a press conference today by the LAPD,and then we will have a better idea of what's going on.


Still,I am VERY disappointed in MJ because this whole thing could have been avoided.I guess he didn't learn anything from the tragedy that he went through in 1993/94.

FunkyBrotha said:

Does it have a guest bedroom, or does everyone sleep in the same room?

langebleu said:

u mean "the same bed"

yes it has guest bedrooms, you must understand that mj has taken major precautions to prevent this from happening

1 he has people surrounding him non stop 24 hrs a day every day so that he has proof nothing happened!

2 the majority of the children visiting neverland are terminally ill, in other words, most of the children who visited him in the summer are probably dead!

3 children who sleep over at the ranch only do so if their parents are with them or if the parents are good friends with mj ie. barry gibbs children!


Also i must stress that child molesters dont ever stop they cant control their problem mj has never been convicted or even arrested over this before and if you read the gq article about the truth behind 93 you would come to the conclusion that mj is innocent!

Its common sense really, i just will never believe it until he is found guilty in a court of law!

Even then it seems highly unlikely the most famous man in history would be put in jail!

Whoops! An arrest warrant has been issued as of Tuesday morning. That means a lot.

Even last time throughout all of the time he was "defending" himself he was never arrested. This must mean they have some serious evidence to show him this time.

I can't imagine that anyone who didn't do something as heinous as child molestation would ever settle out of court (like last time) if you had all the money in the world to defend yourself. That, to me, is the main question that has NEVER had a satisfactory answer.

If he did it...goodbye Jackson.

FunkyBrotha said:

If you are posting these "facts" as arguments for MJ not being guilty then they didn't come across very strongly. all of them can be interpreted in a way that could implicate him too. Just an observation.

See langebleu's post below for what I mean...

"Well done langebleu" edit
[This message was edited Wed Nov 19 8:22:32 PST 2003 by KeithyT]

FunkyBrotha said:

why don't you exaggerate a little. MJ isn't even the most famous pop star in history - hint - he married the daughter of the most famous. There could even be a debate as to if he's even the most famous MJ - how many people think of #23 first when they see MJ?

As for going to jail - if they have proof, he will got to jail, no question.

FunkyBrotha said:

But, as I understand it, Jackson sleeps in the same room as the children


He pays people to sleep in the same room as him and the children???


Why is that important?


Yes. I'm a father too, and I consent to my children sleeping over at other people's houses. The invitation invariably comes from the parent, but the parent is inviting my child across on behalf of their child! I'm still none the wiser as to why Jackson thinks it is necessary to invite children to his house to spend the night in his bedroom, regardless of whether the children's parents have consented, are best friends, or are sleeping in the same room too.


I've read the magazine article several times. I also know Jackson's legally innocent of the allegations made against him. But if you think it is 'common sense, really' then why doesn't Jackson do the most common sense thing imaginable?

Don't invite kids over to sleep in his bedroom. If you are convinced that Jackson is taking major precautions then why has he not chosen the most obvious one?


The most famous man in history!!!

Sorry, this doesn't add to the argument.

.
[This message was edited Wed Nov 19 8:25:54 PST 2003 by langebleu]

alandail said:

MJ #23? i presume you're referring to Jordan. Well i wouldn't think of him first, being English, Infact if i hear the name Jordan, i think of this person:

FunkyBrotha said:

Then I guess that Galilean cat from way back has to settle for #2.

langebleu said:

Because they can't talk when they are dead.

alandail said:

Lemme guess, u'r American. I rmmbr reading a study in the 90ies were MJ's face/figure was WORLDWIDE the second most recognized brand, after Shell.

namepeace said:

Who would that be?

I think Mike IS the most famous man on the planet. Presidents and world leaders come and go, MJ has been around a long time. Though he's famous for all the wrong reasons at the moment!

I wonder how many more Michael Jackson threads will appear before Dansa says enough already!Just a thought.

PhilG said:

While i agree with you we have enough threads about this already, i'm sure with future developements there will b many more threads...it is pretty much all over other (music) message boards also.

Falling star
November 20, 2003
Sydney Morning Herald (Nov 19, 2003)

Reverse Dorian Gray:
Michael Jackson's recent incarnation...

...and, inset, in 1970.

Michael Jackson is an object of loathing and satire. His records don't sell much anymore. And a police raid on his Californian ranch reportedly is part of an investigation into more sexual abuse allegations, Bernard Zuel reports on his fall from grace.

Holly Valance or Delta Goodrem would think their Christmases had come at once if they sold 5 or 6 million copies of their albums worldwide. Michael Jackson did something similar in the past two years with his seventh solo album, Invincible, and he's been branded a failure in the industry and the media.

Unfair? Yes, of course, because his Invincible figures are better than those for 95 per cent of the thousands of artists released each year and would provide a healthy retirement fund for anyone. What's more, that failure tag is consistently applied by comparisons with his 1982 album, Thriller which has sold about 50 million copies and its follow-up, Bad, that sold about 25 million copies. Anything after that is a failure in relative terms if you want.

Bear in mind, too, that in the 19 years since Thriller, no one - not U2, not Alanis Morissette, not Eminem nor 50 Cent - has come close to toppling it from its position as the biggest selling album of all time. And depending on whose figures you use, Bad still is the third- or fourth-highest selling album.

What's more Jackson's influence is finally showing up in a new generation. Justin Timberlake, like Jackson a former member of a teen boy band, liberally pilfered from Jackson's early '80s sound, music and image to launch a solo career last year with the album Justified.

But then again, no, it's not unfair to call Michael Jackson a failure. While still substantial compared with most artists and capable of selling millions in Asia and South America, in the key markets of the US and Britain, Jackson's sales have been in steep decline for a decade. Invincible debuted at No.1 in both countries in 2001 but dropped down the charts rapidly and US sales are estimated at between 2 and 3 million.

Furthermore, while sales have declined, the cost of making a Michael Jackson album - with its attendant lavish film clips, public appearances and media spend - has continued to grow. Invincible is said to have cost $50 million to make (which Jackson borrowed against future earnings from his record company, Sony) and Sony claims to have spent an equivalent figure in launching and promoting it.

By comparison, the Justin Timberlake album cost about $10 million and has sold about 5 million so far.

Even without resorting to the rather flexible financial practices of the music industry, which like the film industry seems to operate outside realms of logic - as many an impecunious musician with a hit record can verify - the financial equation does seem simple. Jackson needed sales revenue to double the recording cost before he could even begin to make money. Invincible's sales of 6 to 7 million did not cover costs.

What's more, if you spend 10 times what your rivals are spending, you need to sell 10 times what they sell to make equivalent profit. Invincible did not do that. Jackson was a household name but not a profit maker, nor a corporate career maker.

Not surprisingly Sony quickly lost interest in Jackson. And it was here that matters became bizarre. Or, given Jackson's history of oddities, more bizarre.

Last year Jackson accused Sony, in particular, and the record industry of racism and of deliberately not promoting or actively working against promotion of his album. An artist not known for taking a political stance, nor even a particularly Afro-American-centric stance; whose contemporary appearance - bleached skin, thin nose, reconstructed chin, flat straight hair - bore little resemblance to the broad-nosed, dark-skinned, curly haired boy who once fronted the Jackson 5, and on whom a record company had spent tens of millions of dollars, was crying discrimination.

Maybe there should have been sympathy. But you suspect that had long run out after two decades of Jackson action that left friends floundering for explanations and the public perplexed, then horrified and finally indifferent.

This was the man who floated a giant statue of himself on Sydney Harbour to promote a tour and demanded that the record company refer to him as the king of pop. Who staged a tour whose self-aggrandisement (he cast himself alongside military, literary and religious historical figures in a video pantheon of heroes) and vainglorious posing (in a set depicting the Balkan War he stopped a tank with a Christ-like gesture and led a soldier to lay down his arms rather than shoot refugees) appalled.

He was rarely seen in public without a face mask and when he was seen his changing appearance attracted derision. His marriages, including a very brief one with Lisa Marie Presley, became tabloid fodder and, of course his fondness for children as houseguests and companions took on a different sheen when the first claim of sexual misconduct was made (but never proven) a decade ago.

None of these things affect Jackson's ability to sing or make music necessarily, but they do affect the way an artist is seen by the media and the public.

For a decade Jackson has not been pop star but gossip figure, known not for his music but his habits. A generation of music buyers does not think of him as the boy who moonwalked across the stage and forced MTV to play black music but as the masked man who dangled his infant son over a balcony.

While he was busy being all these things, the music changed around him. Hip-hop and hard urban sounds took over and pop became a world of teen acts. Jackson tried to accommodate: for Invincible he called in a hot production team. But it wasn't enough and it didn't feel real. No new fans were created and only a fraction of the old ones returned.

With both Jackson, rumoured to be cash-strapped and offloading assets, and his record company needing money flowing, there was little surprise to see yet another greatest hits package, Michael Jackson Number Ones, released this month. What has raised eyebrows is the album's flexibility with the term "number one" as it includes songs that were number one on radio airplay, not just the usual sales charts and number ones from around the world, not just the standard US/UK charts. Is this gilding the lily?

This isn't the end; he could come back of course. Maybe he'll return as a singer of American standards, as Rod Stewart has done. Maybe he'll tap into the American psyche, as his fellow '80s superstar and '90s forgotten man Bruce Springsteen did with The Rising, and become a loved figure again. Maybe...

MJ is on CNN right now with is PR folks. But first they're showing the press conference with the authorities. For those that have CNN, let's all watch this case unfold...

NWF said:

For those who don't have a television near, please report. Thank you!

Jackson family lawyer Brian Oxman gave the following statement to the press: "We've seen this before; our response is 'Here we go again.' Michael has 24-hour-a-day supervision with him for the specific reason to protect him from these claims." (NBC News via MTV.com)

Warrant Issued for Michael Jackson
Jackson Sought on Molestation Counts
(7 minutes ago)
By ROBERT JABLON, Associated Press Writer

Jackson was being given an opportunity to surrender and bail would be set at $3 million, Sheriff Jim Anderson told a press conference.

Charges "will be filed" against Jackson, District Attorney Thomas W. Sneddon Jr. said.

The warrant was for violation of Section 288 of the California Penal Code — which prohibits lewd or lascivious acts with a child under age 14. The California Penal Code says anyone convicted of the crime can be punished by three to eight years in prison.

As many as 70 law enforcement officials served a warrant at Jackson's Neverland Ranch on Tuesday and searched for evidence for more than 12 hours.

A spokesman for Jackson, Stuart Backerman, told The Associated Press early Wednesday that he was consulting with attorneys Wednesday and planned to issue a statement later in the morning.

He declined further comment, saying neither he nor Jackson knew the details of the investigation.

The Jackson family, including Michael, were in Las Vegas early Wednesday and were aware of the arrest warrant, said Steve Manning, a family spokesman.

"It's very unfortunate. They feel very bad about it, but they support him wholeheartedly. They stand behind him 100 percent," Manning said.

Court TV, citing unidentified sources, reported that the allegations were brought by a 12- or 13-year-old boy. And the television program "Celebrity Justice" said a therapist reported disclosures by a boy who spent time at Neverland and began therapy several months ago.

Jackson, who Backerman said was in Las Vegas shooting a music video, noted the timing of the allegations in a statement released to the AP.

"These characters always seem to surface with dreadful allegations just as another project, an album, a video is being released," the Jackson statement said, referring to Tuesday's release of a greatest hits album, "Number Ones."

The 45-year-old singing superstar faced a child molestation investigation in 1993 in a case that never resulted in criminal charges. Jackson reportedly paid a multimillion dollar settlement in that case but maintained his innocence.

Jackson's 2,600-acre, $12.3 million compound in the Santa Ynez Valley that deputies searched Tuesday has a mansion, its own zoo and amusement park, and has often been the site of children's parties.

In a television documentary broadcast on ABC earlier this year, Jackson said he had slept in a bed with many children. "When you say bed you're thinking sexual," the singer said during the interview. "It's not sexual, we're going to sleep. I tuck them in. ... It's very charming, it's very sweet."

Jackson caused an international uproar last year when he displayed his baby, Prince Michael II, to fans by dangling him briefly from a fourth-floor balcony in Germany. Jackson called the incident a "terrible mistake," and Berlin authorities said the actions were not punishable.

The singer had international hits with the albums "Thriller" (1982), "Bad" (1987) and "Dangerous" (1991) saw his career begin to collapse after the 1993 allegations.

His last studio album, "Invincible," sold about 2 million copies in the United States — great for most artists, especially veteran stars, but only so-so for the man who bills himself as the King of Pop.

Associated Press Writers Christina Almeida in Las Vegas and Ryan Pearson in Los Angeles contributed to this report.[/u]

DavidEye said:

How?

brianr54 said:

As a father of two, I can't see taking money in exchange for letting someone who molested my kids walk. That's the thing that's always bothered me not the other way around. And remember, when talking about the LAPD, don't forget these are the same people who felt the "need" to inform OJ at 4am his EX wife was dead. I've always wondered why they didn't drive to Nicoles, or Ron Goldman's parent's home that night to inform them. These same type of people are hell bent on taking MJ down.

I was all ready to watch the hour and a half MJ documentai on ITV last night at 10.30PM and they pulled it because of the breaking news. Thanks for fucking up my viewing pleasure MJ. Shawmon you news breaking muthafucka!

Marrk said:

I don't necessarily disagree with you as to Mike's current level of fame, some for good reasons, some for not. But the claim was most famous in history, which is stretching it a bit.

ConsciousContact said:

Here they are gonna show his private home movies on the weekend. And they are capitalizing on it as "the videos you were never meant to see" or some crap, even tho they are showing all-positive MJ approved movies already broadcast in the US.

Cheap, tacky TV networks capitalizing on whatever they can; even tho they are offering non-controversial material, they make it sound as if they aren't and that it's somehow 'leaked' material.

The $ owns all.

I'm kinda confused as to where I stand on this issue. On one hand, I thought that with his whole Peter Pan complex going on, the thought of sex would be repugnant to him. He seeems to have the most innocent of intentions... On the other hand, a very MJ knowledgeable friend of mine told me they found man/boy love periodicals and books with a lot of nude men in them when they searched Neverland last time.

I wish Michael would let people get back to seeing him as Michael Jackson The Artist rather than MJ the Tabloid Freak. Man, I listen back to all that great music he made and I can only shake my head and wonder what happened.