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TUPAC BULLSHIT As I wait to be poisoned with the over exposure of this Tupac movie that is coming, I am once again irritated at the ignorance of those that want to make him a martyr. I see the interviews of him talking so much shit as if he was a real artist with a real conscious on the level of a Bob Marley or a Stevie Wonder. He was a thug and he only glorified those things that oppressed uneducated black people the most. The sad thing is that they are the people that buy the false image of him as a role model and hero.
There are so many better black people for the lower class blacks to idolize. But they dont - which some could say makes them lower class in the first place. Tupac was vulgar and mysogynistic. He was guilty of everything that he went to jail for and mistreated women while making a lame rap song to pretend to respect them. I love sisters and they deserve better. Sisters that love him are not very smart and can not have any modicum of self worth. I can't identify anything that he even did that was of the social or artistic worth of the deceased legendary artists that he is exhaulted with in today's warped society. Show me anything that he has dome that rivals the work of Bob Marley or Marvin Gaye. [This message was edited Mon Nov 10 19:12:32 PST 2003 by undulatingacrobat] | |
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undulatingacrobat said: As I wait to be poisoned with the over exposure of this Tupac movie that is coming, I am once again irritated at the ignorance of those that want to make him a martyr. I see the interviews of him talking so much shit as if he was a real artist with a real conscious on the level of a Bob Marley or a Stevie Wonder. He was a thug and he only glorified those things that oppressed uneducated black people the most. The sad thing is that they are the people that buy the false image of him as a role model and hero.
There are so many better black people for the lower class blacks to idolize. But they dont - which some could say makes them lower class in the first place. Tupac was vulgar and mysogynistic. He was guilty of everything that he went to jail for and mistreated women while making a lame rap song to pretend to respect them. I love sisters and they deserve better. Sisters that love him are not very smart and can not have any modicum of self worth. I can't identify anything that he even did that was of the social or artistic worth of the deceased legendary artists that he is exhaulted with in today's warped society. Show me anything that he has dome that rivals the work of Bob Marley or Marvin Gaye. [This message was edited Mon Nov 10 19:12:32 PST 2003 by undulatingacrobat]  ... and with that, the defensive brouhaha ensues...This post not for the wimp contingent. All whiny wusses avert your eyes. | |
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Agreed. I like some of his songs, but it amazes me how he somehow achieved such stature. Just our screwed up culture I guess. | |
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jtgillia said: Agreed. I like some of his songs, but it amazes me how he somehow achieved such stature. Just our screwed up culture I guess.
i agree also. I never understood what the funk was so special about him, or better yet, has he done for any1. His raps were good, better yet his poetry. But as putting him as a figure almost higher ground than any other artists, i cant c. well 2 answer ur Question, women like bein disrespected (the video "ho"'s). Yeah our culture is fucked up. I still want 2 c the movie and stuff. But yeah, i dunno. Whateva... Straight Jacket Funk Affair
Album plays and love for vinyl records. | |
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undulatingacrobat said: As I wait to be poisoned with the over exposure of this Tupac movie that is coming, I am once again irritated at the ignorance of those that want to make him a martyr. I see the interviews of him talking so much shit as if he was a real artist with a real conscious on the level of a Bob Marley or a Stevie Wonder. He was a thug and he only glorified those things that oppressed uneducated black people the most. The sad thing is that they are the people that buy the false image of him as a role model and hero.
How much of Pac's work have you actually listened too? He didn't get caught up in that thug image until the latter part of his career when he got caught up with Suge Knight. He was extremely conscious, not a thug but an artist first and foremost. Anyone who followed his career would know that. There are so many better black people for the lower class blacks to idolize. But they dont - which some could say makes them lower class in the first place. Tupac was vulgar and mysogynistic. He was guilty of everything that he went to jail for and mistreated women while making a lame rap song to pretend to respect them. I love sisters and they deserve better. Sisters that love him are not very smart and can not have any modicum of self worth.  How do you know who lower class Blacks "idolize"? Middle and upper class Blacks love him too, and like most "gangsta" rappers his biggest fanbase became middle-class Whites! Tupac was loved and is still loved around the world by all types of people.
How does "idolizing" a rapper make one lower class? I don't follow this logic at all. What "lame rap song" are you talking about? Please don't say "Dear Mama" cuz he wrote that from his heart. Also, who are some "better Black people" for "lower class Blacks to idolize". We'd better get a list out. 
I love 2Pac and have a very strong sense of self worth, along with a B.A. and M.Ed. So your statement is based on what...video ho's? I can't identify anything that he even did that was of the social or artistic worth of the deceased legendary artists that he is exhaulted with in today's warped society. Show me anything that he has dome that rivals the work of Bob Marley or Marvin Gaye. That is like comparing apples and oranges. Tupac stands with KRS-1, Chuck D and other socially conscious hip hop artists. Not reggae or soul singers. [This message was edited Mon Nov 10 19:12:32 PST 2003 by undulatingacrobat] [This message was edited Mon Nov 10 23:59:59 PST 2003 by beautifulone7] | |
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The Makaveli record was a powerful album for me just because I'd never heard a rapper question the whole thug lifestyle before. Everyone just went with it but Tupac took a step back and examined it. Yeah he talked shit about women, other rappers, etc. but he also balanced that out by asking why. Why is the whole gangsta mentality glamourized when so many young men are losing their lives to it? i think had he lived longer, he would have grown into the leader that guys like Al Shaprton and Jesse Jackson SHOULD be but aren't. People listened to him and he had a lot of valid things to say when he got past the usual gangsta shit. Plus his lyrics were so poetic, so much more so than 99% of other rappers out there. He is rightfully placed alongside Lennon, Gaye, Marley, etc because he wrote about things he saw in an honest way like they did, and did it damn well! It just sucks that 2 of the best rappers (he and Biggie) out there had to get capped in that whole stupid East/West thing taht was made a mountain from a molehill by the press. Why couldn't have someone shot Puffy instead? Damn. :^( | |
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Tupac wasn't perfect and he obviously had "issues",but I still appreciate his talent and skills. | |
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beautifulone7 said:[quote] undulatingacrobat said: As I wait to be poisoned with the over exposure of this Tupac movie that is coming, I am once again irritated at the ignorance of those that want to make him a martyr. I see the interviews of him talking so much shit as if he was a real artist with a real conscious on the level of a Bob Marley or a Stevie Wonder. He was a thug and he only glorified those things that oppressed uneducated black people the most. The sad thing is that they are the people that buy the false image of him as a role model and hero.
How much of Pac's work have you actually listened too? He didn't get caught up in that thug image until the latter part of his career when he got caught up with Suge Knight. He was extremely conscious, not a thug but an artist first and foremost. Anyone who followed his career would know that. You don't know your 'Pac, O Beautifulone7. He released the very good "Thug Life - Volume 1" album before Suge got his evil paws on him. Ok, it was a collective project, but it was still a Tupac album in all but name. "Bury me A G" - remember that? It's a classic. To add to that, Tupac was a thug for real. He shot at off-duty cops, accidentally killed a young kid and took part in a gang rape - and that's what we know about. Role model? Fuck that ... unless your heroes are the Manson Family. | |
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I think I Agree Hard to believe I've been on the org for over 25 years now! |
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Pac was one of the 20th centuries greatest poets, and I don't give a fuck who doesn't agree. If you're not feeling his music then it wasn't made for you. This debate is over. Keep your headphones on. | |
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undulatingacrobat said: As I wait to be poisoned with the over exposure of this Tupac movie that is coming, I am once again irritated at the ignorance of those that want to make him a martyr. I see the interviews of him talking so much shit as if he was a real artist with a real conscious on the level of a Bob Marley or a Stevie Wonder. He was a thug and he only glorified those things that oppressed uneducated black people the most. The sad thing is that they are the people that buy the false image of him as a role model and hero.
There are so many better black people for the lower class blacks to idolize. But they dont - which some could say makes them lower class in the first place. Tupac was vulgar and mysogynistic. He was guilty of everything that he went to jail for and mistreated women while making a lame rap song to pretend to respect them. I love sisters and they deserve better. Sisters that love him are not very smart and can not have any modicum of self worth. I can't identify anything that he even did that was of the social or artistic worth of the deceased legendary artists that he is exhaulted with in today's warped society. Show me anything that he has dome that rivals the work of Bob Marley or Marvin Gaye. [This message was edited Mon Nov 10 19:12:32 PST 2003 by undulatingacrobat] Absolutely exquisite...well done. This I have always said.Tupac and Biggie Smalls are not heroes and not martyrs. They got what they lived and asked 4 DEATH. Biggie was 'Ready to Die' and Pac would die and rise again like he said on his last album. The spirit will not be mocked. Yoda Luminous beings are we...not this crude matter.
Is this 2morrow or just the END of time? The Funk will always b with u "I've got a face, not just my race, Bang Bang I've got you babe!" | |
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guitarslinger44 said: The Makaveli record was a powerful album for me just because I'd never heard a rapper question the whole thug lifestyle before. Everyone just went with it but Tupac took a step back and examined it. Yeah he talked shit about women, other rappers, etc. but he also balanced that out by asking why. Why is the whole gangsta mentality glamourized when so many young men are losing their lives to it? i think had he lived longer, he would have grown into the leader that guys like Al Shaprton and Jesse Jackson SHOULD be but aren't. People listened to him and he had a lot of valid things to say when he got past the usual gangsta shit. Plus his lyrics were so poetic, so much more so than 99% of other rappers out there. He is rightfully placed alongside Lennon, Gaye, Marley, etc because he wrote about things he saw in an honest way like they did, and did it damn well! It just sucks that 2 of the best rappers (he and Biggie) out there had to get capped in that whole stupid East/West thing taht was made a mountain from a molehill by the press. Why couldn't have someone shot Puffy instead? Damn. :^(
Lennon??? Gaye??? Marley??? The only thing that Tupac shares with those guys is that he too is pushing up the daisies. Yoda Luminous beings are we...not this crude matter.
Is this 2morrow or just the END of time? The Funk will always b with u "I've got a face, not just my race, Bang Bang I've got you babe!" | |
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smokeverbs said: Pac was one of the 20th centuries greatest poets, and I don't give a fuck who doesn't agree. If you're not feeling his music then it wasn't made for you. This debate is over.
lol of course ure opinion is all that matter's right? debate? over? Nah... Luminous beings are we...not this crude matter.
Is this 2morrow or just the END of time? The Funk will always b with u "I've got a face, not just my race, Bang Bang I've got you babe!" | |
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smokeverbs said: Pac was one of the 20th centuries greatest poets, and I don't give a fuck who doesn't agree. If you're not feeling his music then it wasn't made for you. This debate is over.
Ladies and gentlemen - sorry playaz and bitchez - I give you Tupac Shakur, "one of the 20th century's greatest poets": "Every other city we go/ Every videee-yo/ No matter where I go/ I see the same ho" (Tupac - "All About U") TS Eliot, Ted Hughes ... move over. Smokeverbs, you wouldn't know what "poetry" looked like if it came and wrote on your face. Go smoke some mo' verbs man. Don't get me wrong, I like a lot of Tupac's stuff. He was a talented rapper and actor and his death was a great loss. But the guy was no hero, no martyr, no role model, and definitely no poet. | |
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I agree and disagree.
As with any musical artist, they will express different opinions about different topics: violence, women, drugs, etc. That doesn't mean that they're hypocrites because they will express 2 opposing views on the same subject. Look at Prince. Compare something like Head with Friend Lover Sister Mother Wife. Doesn't mean he's a hypocrite. It means he's like every other person on earth, with different facets to his view, and can have more than one thought in his head during his life. And he's just like every other musician on earth, writing songs from different perspectives. It's art. It may or may not be real, but it's an artistic representation of a viewpoint, whether held by the writer or not. What I do agree with is that he's no martyr or hero. He's a dead artist, and it goes no further than that. Same for Kurt Cobain or John Lennon. Many people may identify with the art, but they aren't anything more than artists when it comes down to it. If they are martyrs or heroes to people in anything other than their artistry, then the world is in dire need of some real heroes and martyrs to look up to. | |
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He was a very talented rapper and might've even made it as an actor, but you are right, he was a thug and should not be glorified when there are so many other people who did better things with their lives than he did and did not break the law. Unfortunately there are so many more rappers out there that seem to be following his path to death or jail and they don't have half the talent he had and people still put these thugs on a pedestal and buy their records by the millions  - Almost everyday we read in one newspaper or another of a rapper that's been arrested for drugs, guns, weapons, assault etc, etc. When will it end? People like Marvin Gaye, Jackie Wilson, Sam Cooke and so many others would be disgusted. | |
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Yeah, Pac was a thug. He wanted to go out 'in a blaze of glory' but just like with anyone else's music, I can find good in it. He was a tortured soul and his music spoke to his experiences. He was a truly talented lyricist. | |
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You gotta seperate the "thug" persona from his talent as a rapper, at least for a moment. There were times where he rattled off degrading and childish remarks, and there were times when he went deep.
Regardless of his message (which was questionable at times), his voice was powerful, and his ability was amazing. Not only that, but he died young, before he had a chance to grow out of his crazy days. Look at Maplethorpe. His subject matter at times was completely repulsive and intentionally offensive. But his skills as a photographer were so strong, they could still shine through all that. [This message was edited Tue Nov 11 8:31:37 PST 2003 by Tom] | |
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Tom said: You gotta seperate the "thug" persona from his talent as a rapper, at least for a moment. There were times where he rattled off degrading and childish remarks, and there were times when he went deep.
Regardless of his message (which was questionable at times), his voice was powerful, and his ability was amazing. Not only that, but he died young, before he had a chance to grow out of his crazy days. Look at Maplethorpe. His subject matter at times was completely repulsive and intentionally offensive. But his skills as a photographer were so strong, they could still shine through all that. [This message was edited Tue Nov 11 8:31:37 PST 2003 by Tom] I hate to do Prince comparisons but look at how much he has grown since age 25. | |
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sinisterpentatonic said:  To Sir, with Love | |
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If you get PROPS from Nikki Giovanni & Sonja Sanches then you're def a SOLID poet. | |
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undulatingacrobat said: As I wait to be poisoned with the over exposure of this Tupac movie that is coming, I am once again irritated at the ignorance of those that want to make him a martyr. I see the interviews of him talking so much shit as if he was a real artist with a real conscious on the level of a Bob Marley or a Stevie Wonder. He was a thug and he only glorified those things that oppressed uneducated black people the most. The sad thing is that they are the people that buy the false image of him as a role model and hero.
There are so many better black people for the lower class blacks to idolize. But they dont - which some could say makes them lower class in the first place. Tupac was vulgar and mysogynistic. He was guilty of everything that he went to jail for and mistreated women while making a lame rap song to pretend to respect them. I love sisters and they deserve better. Sisters that love him are not very smart and can not have any modicum of self worth. I can't identify anything that he even did that was of the social or artistic worth of the deceased legendary artists that he is exhaulted with in today's warped society. Show me anything that he has dome that rivals the work of Bob Marley or Marvin Gaye. [This message was edited Mon Nov 10 19:12:32 PST 2003 by undulatingacrobat] Oh Lawd. Here we go...  This statement is filled with such foolishness. "There are so many better people for the lower class blacks to idolize?'... Who the hell said that only "lower class" blacks idolized him? Who the hell said the you get to judge who lower class blacks should idolize? I know many people who admired Pac who were not lower class or even black? Next, who the hell ever said the Pac was a martyr? Where is that printed? He was a confused young black man trying to find his way, like a lot of other young black men. IMHO, "lower class" black people identified with him and what he was talking about. Tupac had some idiot songs but he was also able to go deep. Ever heard Brenda's got a Baby? Tupac is probably more idolized because he died young and at the top of his game, like Monroe or James Dean. That's probably more of the reason why he is so adored. That has more to with it than whether or not one is "lower class" or black IMHO. And America loves it's gangsters. Scarface, The Godfather. Frank Sinatra hung out with gangsters. It aint just a "lower class" black thang.**************************************************
Pull ya cell phone out and call yo next of kin...we 'bout to get funky......2,3 come on ya'll | |
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JohnnyTheFox said:Smokeverbs, you wouldn't know what "poetry" looked like if it came and wrote on your face.
Go smoke some mo' verbs man. [/quote] you can seriously fuck off. you obviously missed the key point in my post, so i'll say it again in plainer language: If you don't see the greatness in Pac's words, they weren't meant for you to hear. That's ok. Not everyone is going to like and appreciate the same things. I bet you think you schooled me, don't you? That's cool. Go listen to your Rainbow Children again. That's REAL genius, isn't it? Keep your headphones on. | |
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illimack said: undulatingacrobat said: As I wait to be poisoned with the over exposure of this Tupac movie that is coming, I am once again irritated at the ignorance of those that want to make him a martyr. I see the interviews of him talking so much shit as if he was a real artist with a real conscious on the level of a Bob Marley or a Stevie Wonder. He was a thug and he only glorified those things that oppressed uneducated black people the most. The sad thing is that they are the people that buy the false image of him as a role model and hero.
There are so many better black people for the lower class blacks to idolize. But they dont - which some could say makes them lower class in the first place. Tupac was vulgar and mysogynistic. He was guilty of everything that he went to jail for and mistreated women while making a lame rap song to pretend to respect them. I love sisters and they deserve better. Sisters that love him are not very smart and can not have any modicum of self worth. I can't identify anything that he even did that was of the social or artistic worth of the deceased legendary artists that he is exhaulted with in today's warped society. Show me anything that he has dome that rivals the work of Bob Marley or Marvin Gaye. [This message was edited Mon Nov 10 19:12:32 PST 2003 by undulatingacrobat] Oh Lawd. Here we go... This statement is filled with such foolishness. "There are so many better people for the lower class blacks to idolize?'... Who the hell said that only "lower class" blacks idolized him? Who the hell said the you get to judge who lower class blacks should idolize? I know many people who admired Pac who were not lower class or even black? Next, who the hell ever said the Pac was a martyr? Where is that printed? He was a confused young black man trying to find his way, like a lot of other young black men. IMHO, "lower class" black people identified with him and what he was talking about. Tupac had some idiot songs but he was also able to go deep. Ever heard Brenda's got a Baby? Tupac is probably more idolized because he died young and at the top of his game, like Monroe or James Dean. That's probably more of the reason why he is so adored. That has more to with it than whether or not one is "lower class" or black IMHO. And America loves it's gangsters. Scarface, The Godfather. Frank Sinatra hung out with gangsters. It aint just a "lower class" black thang.I love you illimack!!! speak on it woman!!! BTW I think mr. sinatra may have been a godfather himself... [This message was edited Tue Nov 11 12:11:53 PST 2003 by PEJ] To Sir, with Love | |
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I don't like most rap, I don't listen to it.
I don't mind some rap, but in very small doses, some Notorious BIG singles I liked, I was a big fan of Salt N Pepa as a kid (whether they count or not, I don't know). I never saw the attracted of Tupac's music, so I can't really comment whether it was good rap or bad rap, but with so many people putting him on a pedestal, there must have been something about him. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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And I agree with everthing you say beautifulone7. He wasn't at the level and was not out there as long as all of these legendary Marvin Gaye but his music and poetry and acting showed the world how talented he is and he still had more to show and prove to his public. But his voice toward the struggle in his life and everything he had to go through to get where he was at opened a lot of peoples minds. And please keep the comparsion where it has always been, Notorious BIG. | |
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Este individuo sabe alrededor como mucho sobre Tupac, como hago sobre la lamedura del asno. All you others say Hell Yea!!  | |
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2freaky4church1 said: Este individuo sabe alrededor como mucho sobre Tupac, como hago sobre la lamedura del asno.
que' no comprende mi amigo.. please interpret for me at least!! To Sir, with Love | |
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undulatingacrobat said: Show me anything that he has dome that rivals the work of Bob Marley
who smoked herb...which many people would take issue with... or Marvin Gaye.
who smoked cocaine...which even more people would take issue... ...In other words, SWANG got love for Bob, Marvin, and 'Pac... -SWANGstaysdiplomatic | |
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