While I don't agree with the sort of mythical status he seems to have acheived, he still deserves his props.
He was a great lyricist. He's probably the last good commercial rapper, I haven't seen anyone since that was as good as he was.

And,if you just HAVE to bring up the person and completely disregard the music, then neither Bob nor Marvin are suitible for "lower-class blacks" () to look up at either.
Yes, he wrote some songs about bitches and hos, but anyone who's familliar with his work knows he went deeper then that.

I am by no means a fan of the man, but he should be respected for as a great lyricist, because that's exactly what he was.

He's achieved the status that he has because he died young, anyone who dies young (james dean, curt cobain, selena, notorious B.I.G., ect.) is idolized, when you die at the top of your game expect idiolizing to happen.

And there are plenty of "lower-class blacks" () that can seperate the man form the music.

tupac rocks

birthed from the loins of

a black panther

roaming the ghettos of racist america

creating poetry from his tears and fears

street preacher 4 the people

becoming successful, against all odds

keepin his head up

and makin it 2 gangster heaven

I totally agree.

Tupac is not all he is cracked up to be.

He glorified the very problems he was supposedly rallying against by making it all seem cool. That is the problem with so much of modern day American culture. The lowest common denominator is made cool, over and over again.

THUG LIFE as defined by Tupac
T.he H.ATE Y.ou G.ive L.ittle I.nfants F.ucks E.verybody
Question to author of tread-
How many Tupac albums do you have?
No beef with your statements on Pac, lower class blacks should not idolize any artist dead or alive, more so whats with this lower class (this statement alone should warn any reader on the level of the treads discourse). Surban whites, chinese, blacks, urban whites, chinese, hispanics bought Tupacs music. His music crossed all socioeconomic boundaries and genders.

Kids don't listen to preachers, teachers and politicians anymore. They do listen to music, and rap is a perfect medium to blend all of the above. Fans and observers alike agree that his music and life were at times hypocritical. It only made his life and music more compelling. He forced complex issues into verse and melodies that challenged the status quo and his listeners. He's much more like you than you will ever admit or know.

"censor me and bar your kids from the lessons I've learned'
Tupac

popgodazipa said:

Oh my, I believe somebody just got checked

'peace's theory on pac ( not total truth)

Tupac was an extremely talented artist. He was capable of great songs with meaningful lyrics. At the beginning of his career, he was more of a "street poet" in the vein of KRS-ONE. Later he showed himself to be a considerable talent as an actor; had he survived, I am fully convinced he would be working full-time in movies right now. He was extraordinary.

But he latched on to two words that killed him: Thug Life. He started rapping about it, and then fell under intense pressure to be about what he was shooting the breeze about.As he started to do that, he became more paranoid and started making some bad career decisions -- well, ONE bad career and life decision to join Death Row, which fueled his paranoia and fueled the dark side of his work. They killed him, plain and simple.

Now, in death, his is grotesquely mythologized as a revolutionary (he was not) or a thug (he was not). He was neither a hero nor a martyr nor a villain. He was an extremely talented and troubled artist and one of hip-hop's greatest emcees and (for better and worse) influences

undulatingacrobat, I agree with ya for sure. While I was an ardent Tupac fan in 1997-1999, all the hype has since turned me off. 2Pac was a great rapper indeed, irrefutably one of the best, but I think it's stretching the truth to say he would've been a "revolutionary politician" etc. He was just a musician, and a damn good one at that. He WAS a hypocrite for slandering women and then expecting to redeem himself with "Keep Ya Head Up", only to continue to degrade women until the day he was shot. He was ambitious and observant, but we shouldn't romanticise just because he's dead. The music was good, but the male feminist/misogynist thing is irreconcilable, and he WAS a common thug, albeit a more articulate and lyrically gifted one. But none of that really matters, he's just fodder for the urban canon, and the f*cking media is just capitalising on the recent interest in urban culture, and they've consequently destroyed Tupac's legacy.

As for Bob Marley, Stevie Wonder and Marvin Gaye- they're all just great muso's like 'Pac, nothing more. I think it's silly to deem these musicians as Holy forces.

namepeace said:

Pow!

2freaky4church1 said:

omg, where the hell did you learn your Spanish??

smokeverbs said:

you can seriously fuck off. you obviously missed the key point in my post, so i'll say it again in plainer language:

If you don't see the greatness in Pac's words, they weren't meant for you to hear. That's ok. Not everyone is going to like and appreciate the same things. I bet you think you schooled me, don't you?

That's cool. Go listen to your Rainbow Children again. That's REAL genius, isn't it?[/quote]


Smokeverbs, you are so lost in space. You called Tupac "one of the greatest poets of the twentieth century". I don't think he is.

Tupac DID write some great rhymes. "Bury Me A G" is, for me, one of the best character studies he ever penned. A lot of the rhymes on "Me Against the World" are superb - BUT THEY'RE STILL NOT FUCKING POETRY. Ok?

I just hate the way they keep coming up with "New" singles and albums. Pure Exploitation of the public.

SquirrelMeat said:

Indeed.I wonder how many more "new" Tupac albums will be released in the future?

All you wanted to be, a soulja, a soulja
All you wanted to be, a soulja, like me
All you wanted to be, a soulja, a soulja
All you wanted to be, a soulja, like me



They cuttin off welfare..
They think crime is risin now
You got whites killin blacks,
cops killin blacks, and blacks killin blacks
Shit just gon' get worse
They just gon' become souljas
Straight souljas



All you wanted to be, a soulja, a soulja
All you wanted to be, a soulja, like me
All you wanted to be, a soulja, a soulja
All you wanted to be, a soulja, like me


Crack done took a part of my family tree
My mom is on the shit, my daddy's splittin, mom is steady blamin me
Is it my fault, just cause I'm a young black male?
Cops sweat me as if my destiny is makin crack sales
Only fifteen and got problems
Cops on my tail, so I bail til I dodge 'em
They finally pull me over and I laugh
"Remember Rodney King?" and I blast on his punk ass
Now I got a murder case..
.. you speak of heaven punk? I never heard of the place
Wanted to come up fast, got a Uz and a black mask
Duckin fuckin 'Task', now who's the jack-ass?
Keep my shit cocked, cause the cops got a glock too
What the fuck would you do - drop them or let 'em drop you?
I chose droppin the cop
I got me a glock, and a glock for the niggaz on my block
Momma tried to stab me, I moved out
Sold a pound a weed, made G's, bought a new house
I'm only seventeen, I'm the new kid
Got me a crew, bought 'em jewels, and a Uz'-thick
But all good things don't last
'Task' came fast, and busted my black ass
Coolin in the pen, where the good's kept
Now my little brother wants to follow in my footsteps
A soulja

Buck, buck - niggaz get fucked, don't step to this
Quiet as kept I'm blessed on a quest with a death wish
Tell 'em to come and test, and arrest, nigga it's hectic
Here's the anorexic, I'm makin it to an exit
Walkin through the streets on the black tip
Packed with several gats, cause I'm on some "pay 'em back" shit
Niggaz don't wanna try me, brother you'll get shot down
Now I'm king of the block, since my bigger brother's locked down
I'm hot now, so many punk police have got shot down
Other coppers see me on the block, and they jock now
That's what I call a kingpin
Send my brother what he needs and some weed up to Sing-Sing
Tellin him just be ready set
Pack ya shit up quick; and when I hit, be prepared to jet
Niggaz from the block on the boat now
Every single one got a gun, that'll smoke - pow!
These punks about to get hit by the best
I'm wearin double vest.. so aim at my fuckin chest
I'll be makin straight dome calls
Touch the button on the wall, you'll be pickin up your own balls
I can still hear my mother shout..
"Hit the pig nigga, break your bigger brother out"
I got a message for the warden
I'm comin for ya ass, as fast as Flash Gorden
We get surrounded in the mess hall, yes y'all
A crazy motherfucker makin death calls
Just bring me my brother and we leavin
For every minute you stall, one of y'all bleedin..
They brought my brother in a jiffy
I took a cop, just in case things got tricky
And just as we was walkin out (BANG!)
I caught a bullet in the head, the screams never left my mouth
My brother caught a bullet too
I think he gon' pull through, he deserve to
The fast life ain't everything they told ya
Never get much older, following the tracks of a soulja

JohnnyTheFox said:Smokeverbs, you are so lost in space. You called Tupac "one of the greatest poets of the twentieth century". I don't think he is.
[/quote]

Your mom is lost in space, now scram.

DavidEye said:

When mama decides she's made enough money!

ya'll are lost...I guess Prince is it for some of ya'll.

sinisterpentatonic said:

Not taking sides on this one..but
That is the funniest thing I've seen on here!!


Ok..carry on...

Tupac was a poet. My favourite poem by him was "For Jada". He wasn't one of the "greatest poets of all time" or anything, but he was decent.

I too hate the way they keep on releasing all these posthumous albums.