I know this could be argued a great deal, so maybe I should make myself a little more clearly. Do you think rap music gets the critism it's gets, because it mainly represents the ghetto/ the streets? If so why do you think so many people are offended by the life style a lot of these rap/hip hop artist are trying 2 betray?

Point in taken

Rock music is just as violent as rap music, however. I don't think people make as much as a big deal out of it, because it's just a bunch of suburban white kids playing in a band bitchin' about something, but in rap music, where there are a lot of real issues 2 be addrress, 4 some reason people get rawdy up about it? I always wondered why this is... is it because white america wants 2 pretend as if the ghetto doesn't exsist?

U know this reminds of something,I was just watching Boyz n the hood last night and Ice Cube said the truest thing .....

"Either they don't show, they don't know or they just don't care about what's going on in the hood".

Boyz N the Hood edit
[This message was edited Fri Oct 10 19:06:16 PDT 2003 by DigitalLisa]

Rap music is pretty much a "white" thing.

IceNine said:

there is still no excuse to glorify the pimpin, gang banger, fuckin hoes, kill a motherfucker lifestyle.

DigitalLisa said:

Ok, first things first. I can't speak for all critics of music, but for me, my lack of enthusiasm for most rap music stems from the fact that what I hear sucks, and all sounds the same. Don't get me wrong though, I know there are some very talented rap artists out there, but for the most part it sounds like musical porno to me. You have to remember that what gets criticized is what gets heard by most. The same can be said for the crappy pop music, and crappy rock music that is on the radio all day every day.

Second, you said "lifestyle they betray". I think you meant portray, and if so, can you honestly say "Shake yo Tailfeather" represents ghetto life? However, you may have meant "betray", cuz that would also fits, and is something I get to a little further down. That's why I'm not too sure.

Third, the rock music you hear on radio isn't as violent as the rap you hear, but the violent rock DOES get a lot of attention. Look no further than Marilyn Manson for further insight on that. People hate him that have never heard a song of his in their lives. And, rock music is just a bunch of white boys bitchin', but rap music has serious issues to address? All rock? All rap? pardon me? I'm confused.

For the first time in history, every one of the top ten billboard songs were recorded by black artists, and you're telling me we're denying the black influence on american life?

Boyz N the Hood was an interesting movie, that I enjoyed, and brought up some fine issues. But I think the quote you stated is completely unrelated to the topic of rap music.

They don't know: Biggest selling music genre right now
They don't show: Topics discussed in every music/entertainment mag.
Don't care: See above two.

That quote had to do with the crime and state of urban ghettos, which I DO NOT think is represented by rap music. I think radio-rap music gets negativity, because it for the most part DENIES the real issues facing people that struggle to survive.
[This message was edited Fri Oct 10 22:14:36 PDT 2003 by savoirfaire]

all the whites in the world praised country music

DigitalLisa said:

Do you really think mainstream/commercial rap represents the streets?
Shaking your ass, pimps and hos, bling bling, partying like it's your birthday, ect. in no way, shape, or form represents the street. The rappers may come from the streets, but their music doesn't represent the ghetto, I'm not exactly sure what it represents, but it sure ain't the streets



hmm, not always, I disagree

:dsibelief: no, it's not. "white boys" have problems, issues, ect. and address them
ever heard of punk
Besides, "rock" is an "umbrella term" for music, not all rock is nagative/"bitching about something"
Rock also doesn't talk about bitches and hoes, and pimps, and rock artists don't feature half-neaked girls shaking their asses in their videos either

well, today's rap doesn't talk about real issues at all Are you talking about today's rap?

for racists, bigots. and rednecks, yes.
For the rest of white america their crticisim and dislike of rap music is simply because they can't relate to it. just like you think rock is a bunch of white boys bitching about something, "white boys" certainly don't think that. of course i'm talking about relevant rap music.
As far todays (commercial) rap goes, because it's dumb. simple as that. It doesn't talk about issues, ghetto life, it talks about pimps and bitches and hoes, and bling bling.
I don't blame anyone who crtiticizes it. not at all.



Now if you're talking about back in the day's rap, when it actually held some merit that's diffrent. As I've said before, people who weren't brought up in the type of setting that rappers were simply don't relate to that type of music. just as you don't to rock.

Others think it's "not real music". No instruments being played & no real singing going on, of course people aren't gonna take to it too well. My father's black, didn't grow up in the ghetto but wasn't born with a silver spoon in his mouth with the perfect family life either, and had that "it's not real music" stance. Unless you were born and brought up in that inviroment, you really couldn't ge into it.
Prince, as open mindedas he was/is?, had that attitude towards it too. Rap, at that time, was relatively new and took quite awhile to gain "respect". There are plenty of blacks that can't/couldn't stand it either. If you weren't from the streets, chances are you didn't relate and didn't like it.
When punk came out it was the same thing. All whites weren't exactly thrilled over it, blacks couldn't give damn, and it was higly criticized.
It's not so much a race thing, but whether you can undertsand it. You're a product of your enviroment, you relate to and understand certain things.


But then again, rap is the most popular type of music out there now. I mean, britney and madonna are "rapping", every other song mariah carey has out there features a rapper, p diddy's "da band" debueted at #2 on the charts, and then of course there's eminem. For it to be so big, some white gotta be buying this stuff. It's a musical fad right now, many like it and buy it.

So for the people that crticize it now, I applaud them, 'cause rap today doen't have a damn thing to do with the streets, ghetto life, being black and having it hard, or any other real issue. It's fluffy, meaningless, dumb, demeaning towards women, materialistic lyrics on top of a beat. Nothing else.
I'm not exactly sure if you're talking about today's rap, because plenty of white america loves and buys it.
[This message was edited Fri Oct 10 23:04:16 PDT 2003 by lovebizzare]

Hey, what a great question. I think for myself, as a black musician and i'm sure most would agree, its junk. Its too easy and it doesnt take a really talented person to make rap music or to call themselves a rapper. Thats just my opinion. Holding a mirophone onstage and walking from side to side rapping, what at times sounds like nursury rhymes to a loop track, is weak. I know it makes a lot of money and I know it takes a bit of talent to rhyme, but I just dont think it has much to offer. I use rappers in some of my music, but I look at it as another form of singing, but as for most rap artist, they are weak. There are indeed acts like "The Roots"..i'm feelng their music, but they incorporate live music, which in my opinion make them more legit, but an act like Luducris(excuse the spelling please)...if he were a white rapper like "Slim shaddy" rapping about Chicken and beer..It would be considered racist. In my eyes its still racist regardless where it is coming from...he doesnt get a pass becasue he is black. Its still ignorant. Are yall feeling me ? Great question

www.mp3.com/brobynmusic
[This message was edited Fri Oct 10 23:28:33 PDT 2003 by brobyn]

it has less to do with race and more to do with content.

Not from me. I love most black music and a lot of rap, but most of it now just seems to lack any innovation.

People been bitchin' about rap music since day one, 20 yrs later it's still around and people still saying the same thing they said as once before. People and music critics said rap music wasn't going to last it was only a passing fad, 20 yrs later rap music has become one of the most engrossed paid forms of music that's out there today, heck it's bigger then rock music. So I'm saying if this was another form of music and not just rap music, but with the same facts, do you think it would get as much flack as it get today?

Excuse me, not all rap music is violent. They're are very positive rappers who are more politically aware of other things in life other then bitches n' hoes. For example, Black eyed peas, Common, Talib Kweli, the roots, even Outkast and these people get played on mtv as well as 50cent, Jarule, Obie Trice etc, but the focus is so much on the negativity side of rap music, people don't want 2 give it a chance and that's why I ask do you think the main reason, is because it's seen as a black thing, that is represented by black youth presented to all other cultural around the world who embraces the music so well?

BlaqueKnight said:

There numerous things in our country that make a lot of money, that doesnt make it legit or right, i.e. drug dealing...too many things to mention.
THE DAY WE AS BLACK FOLKS STOP BLAMMING WHITE FOLKS FOR ALL OF OUR WOES IS THE DAY SOME PROGRESS WILL BE MADE !!! LOOK, "CHICKEN AND BISCIUTS", "IM A PIMP", "IM A THUG" , THESE IMAGES ARE PERPETUATED BY BLACK PEOPLE...BE DIFFERENT AND ACTUALLY TAKE AN HONEST LOOK!!!
Im wont take pride in quoting Ice Cube, but I will quote Chris Rock..."when i;m at the ATM . i'm not worried about Ted Kopell robbin my ass, i'm worried about some..."
again, great topic !!!

opps
[This message was edited Sat Oct 11 16:58:29 PDT 2003 by brobyn]

DigitalLisa said:

I don't see how that is, considering the whole top 10 is rap

so plenty like it, right?

no, 'cause in other types of music there's real instruments being played and real singing going on, which is the main criticism of rap music today.


not true

that because there IS so much negativity, when there's so much negativity it's hard to see the good

for racits, bigots, and rednecks, yes.
there are plenty of other reasons why people don't like rap, I'll give you some:
1. Some simply just can't relate to the subject matter of the important/good rap. If you're raised in the subburbs, I don't think you're gonna take to well to rap
Do you really expect some white guy named bill, who works on wallstree and was born with a silver spoon in his mouth to buy a tupac album? get serious. that part of "white amercia" simply doesn't realate to it. Just like how you think rock is "a bunch of white boys bitching about something". In your first post you basicly implied that was all rock was about, some think
rap is all about "bitches and hoes/bling bling".

2. some simply just don't see it as real music.
No real instruments being played, no real singing going on.

lovebizzare said:

Have you ever seen The Roots live... ahem they use real insturments. All their songs are orignal, nothing sample, no they don't talk about the bling, bling , getting drunk or getting high at that matter and I know you heard of the neptunes, yes they play real insturments also. Fact is, rap music is just about a billion dollar industry and I hope you know the people who are buying these albums, aren't the kids from the ghetto, no in my class we just did a research and found out most people who are buying these records in the stores
are the white suburban kids who watch these videos everyday on MTV, MTV2 and BET.
I know this 2 be true, I live in a white surburds, half these kids in my neighborhood ain't listening 2 Britney Spears, sum 41 or limpbizkit. , they listening 2 Dr. Dre, Emenim, Cash Money, etc. I see all these white boys walking around trying to be down, thinking they know everything about the hood, just because they listened to a couple of rap albums, I be thinking I know they're folks has got 2 be pissed ... that's another reason why I asked this question.
[This message was edited Sat Oct 11 18:52:56 PDT 2003 by DigitalLisa]

BlaqueKnight said:

1) You are absolutely right, I have no respect for the genre of Rap.

2) Since you wanna make it personal, I can indeed write rap lyrics on the same level as the above mentioned and have been paid very well for it.

3) something you should know, legendary acts that I have personally talked to hate rap as well, even though they have made a lot of money from the rappers using thier music, i.e. Stevie Wonder, Rick James..I have personally heard it "from the horses mouth".

4) The skills that you point out that rappers have are
no skills at all in the world of musicianship

5) since you point out that sex and violence sales and in your mind that makes it okay, shows me the level of intellect that you are living under which makes me a fool for even responding to you, however, the baseball games are over and you are a bit entertaining.

All of the above is my opinion,,,thanks for your mr Knight...

I personally think that Chris Rock said it best when he said "White people say they don't understand rap music,that's good!! it ain't for u,black people don't understand country or rock music,that's good too,it ain't for you" "rap music: Ni**a music,country music: Cra**a music"


This is a very touchy subject 4 me,i get offended very easily when people(black & white) put down rap & hip-hop & don't even consider it an artform???

Again it is the most popular form of music 2day & really has been for a long ass time,i will however admit it ain't all good. however it's my favorite form of music & it always will be.

It has been stated b4 by someone (can't remember exactly who)that it's the voice of 2days youth,I strongly believe that.

If it weren't 4 my love of rap music,i probably wouldn't like half of the stuff i listen to.

I really just wish that some people would give it half a chance & really listen to where half of these people are coming from(the ones who are actually saying something) not the "bling bling" rappers,but the ones who are talking about current issues & problems in the urban communities.if u did i personally think that u may become a fan.




that's just my 2 cents,u don't have 2 agree with me or like what i said,just respect the fact that it is an artform & it is a free speech type thing.

jn2 said:

ThaHumanBody said:

Most people are sheep. They're not inclined to seek out music that isn't force-fed to them via mainstream radio or video channels. It's easier for them to let the media tell them what's what, therefore, they're most likely not going to seek out anything outside the mainstream. Hip Hop's growth has been stunted, unfortunately. As a mainstream movement it never continued to grow beyond its adolescent mindset (it had that type of chance in its artistic heyday), and that's mainly what we hear and see on radio and tv today.

ThaHumanBody said:

co-sign

irresistibleb1tch said:

People do listen, not only do they listen , they mimic !!..Half the rappers that book my studio, mimic. The so called Legit acts often justify what they say and do by pointing out that it was reality for them, often pointing to their their culture. Well that was not my reality as a black person growing up in Inglewood Ca. and it was not the reality for the hundreds I grew up with.And who says that their reality is more important, credible, or significant than mine. SUPERNOVA is 100% correct when she says that "most people are sheep". People lack the ability to think as individuals. Let me share a bit of reality with some of ya'll...I am 32 yrs old. I grew up in Inglewood Ca. When I was a youngster, there was a group called "The Wrecking Crew". They were a dance act and the D.J. was Dr. Dre. They would come out with undergroud records and underground parties. Well their appeal was the fact that they danced liked The Time and Dr. Dre dressed like Dr Fink. He was never and I mean never a gangta and to this day, simply plays the role. That gangsta role came about after hooking up with Cube, who then hooked him up with Easy E. Cube was never a gangster either, he grew up a couple blocks from my mom's home. I specifically remember a day when we palyed cops and robbers as kids and he wanted to be the Cop. Cube's main thing was learning how to produce from Dre. Now...I write all of this to show u guys how sheep are. A large, significant number of people mimic these acts. Heck, the so called West coast rap movement is mainly because of Dre. They mimic individuals who themselves, in reality, never were what the say they are. It is sooo funny !!! The only real criminal from the bunch was Easy E and he was a small time drug dealer. Today, Snoop Dog is literally running for his life out here in Cali becaue of the fallacious image he was part of creating.He is supposed to be the P.I.M.P. 50 cent has a restraining order against Murder Inc.,,,That is reality !!! Unfortuantly most of us are hypnotized !!! I really can care less what any rapper has to say.I would rather hear what a single mother working 2 jobs has to say, or a world war II Veteran, or a ole school Jazz Musician telling what he experienced in his life. Just keep Rappers on the level that they are. Entertainment only.

brobyn said:

Dude, you are no authority on music. You obviously missed the hip-hop revolution and are speaking from the outside. Hip-hop is about life from the youth for the youth. Emcees like Rakim, Chuck D., Cube, LL, Big Daddy Kane, the D.O.C., Nas, Mos Def and groups like Tribe, Gangstarr, the Roots, the Beastie Boys (yeah I said it) and N.W.A. are more representative of true hip-hop than P-diddy, Ja-Rule, and Eminem. You're latching on to what you see with media saturation.

It's all a business now. Back when it was not quite underground but still not all over the radio was the height-- the Golden Age if you will. No it wasn't in the early 80's with Bambataa, Whodini, Kool Moe, Run DMC, etc. They were crucial to it's growth but their styles weren't progressed yet. The late 80's -early 90's era was the zenith.

Like every other music form it has been leeched by the recording industries. What you're blasting and using as the model for hip-hop is equivalent to people pointing at the 80's to condemn rock. It was already dead. Music evolves so this time was bound to come but don't think hip-hop wasn't great because it was.

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha!

It's a black thing.

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha!

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha!

You yanks are so hung up on race it's unbelievable!

Simple fact...I am a WHITE guy, 31 years old from London who has been listening to Hip-Hop for 20 years. I don't consider anything black or white. Don;t matter if it's 3rd Bass or Public Enemy good beats and rhymes are good beats and rhymes. It's the same with rock. Who cares if Living Colour are Black or White, they're still a great rock band! So stop segregating music. Duke Ellington once said "There are only 2 types of music. Good & Bad!"

And another thing, please stop calling it RAP MUSIC. That term is derogitory for anybody like me. Hip-Hop is the true name of this music. If you are not making Hip-Hop that represents DJing, Graf, B-Boying and Emceeing then you are making RAP and therefore not music!

Because blacks have a responsibility to say more in their music, because of the struggle of civil rights. The "bitch, hoe, N*** stuff just denegrates those who came before. Rap should uplift as well as entertain.

ThaHumanBody said:

I'm with you on that

Whites invented rap; remember the Devil Went Down To Georgia? lol

BlaqueKnight said:

BlaqueKnight,as usual,you make some very good points! I am always impressed with your well-thought out opinions.While I am not a fan of most of today's rap music,I do agree with many of your views and the way you look at things.

chemmie said:

Errr... that wasnt really the topic of this thread as not all raps are about pimpin, gang banger, etc...

You are a foreigner in your own country, dude...

I think certain people who don't like hip-hop or otherwise don't understand its roots are always going to be negative, even if it's Aceyalone, De La Soul or Talib Kweli. Somebody on another thread even went so far as to call "The Message" an early gangsta track.

I think there are others who sometimes reflexively defend hip-hop even when it doesn;t deserve it, because they have heard the same criticisms of hip-hop from day one, and list other negative artists in other genres to deflect the criticism. Hip-hop is a stand-alone genre which should be judged on its own merits, not compared to any other music/art form.

The negative criticism of hip-hop is mostly deserved these days. Those who truly love hip-hop will hopefully continue to speak their minds about the sad state of the genre right now. It is a "black thing" as a form of expression, but money and ignorance are giving neo-minstrels a way to legitimize the slaw they pass off as hip-hop these days.

So I guess I could answer the question "yes," and "no."