DavidEye said:

I dont think she was actually bent outta shape.I think interveiwers tend to ask Nicks what advice she would offer to these younger "performers" because of her lengthy (mostly successful) career and because of her own battles with all of the pitfalls that this industry provides.I think it's more of an "asked and answered" scenerio.I doubt Nicks would start mudslinging at this late stage of the game.
[This message was edited Sat Sep 20 19:29:50 PDT 2003 by MrTation]

Forget what you think about Stevie

What she said was true

Janfriend said:

are you fuckin kiddin me!?

what about Janet Jackson strapping guys into chairs and onto tables and doing everthing but penetration on stage with them?

AaronMaximus said:

No I'm not fuckin kiddin you

Janet didn't do that on national tv as a ploy to sell more records

Janfriend said:

umm... she did it in every city on every tour for the last 10 years. and selling records and making money is what tours are for.

and she did it on cable, just as Madonna did.

AaronMaximus said:

This has been a part of Janet's show for 10 years unlike madonna just kissing two pop princesses for shock value and there's a difference betweem a premium channel and a basic cable channel

Janfriend said:

ohfuckingplease!!! this is the kind of bullshit hypocrisy that i argued and argued with Janet Jackson fans for years on that crap Miss Janazi Mailing List.

strapping a guy down on HBO and dry-humping him is no different than Madonna KISSING these 2 on stage on MTV. in fact, it's even more raunchy. she was doing the same shit in 1994, and by 2002 her audience had changed, but i saw it from the front row in 1994, when the average age of the Janet concert-goer was about 12.

do you know how many times i've had to point out just exactly how slutty and "suggestive" Janet has been in her music and image for the last 10 years? Janet fans are always saying that Madonna is tacky and slutty and cheap, but Janet is twice as bad. Madonna doesn't have a song as nasty as "If" and if you could actually hear Janet's voice, or what she was saying in that song, it would have never even gotten on the radio.

Madonna kissing Britney and Christina? PALES in comparison to dryhumping a guy at a concert that 10-15 year-olds are going to be at.

AaronMaximus said:

First of all, the average age of Janet's fans are her age. In 94 the average age of her fans were in their 20's and that was something Madonna was doing for 10 years I wouldn't flinch , but it was who and why. I guess Madonna can do no wrong in your eyes. If you want to compare the two. The slutty things Madonna does in her videos, Janet never does. Janet's videos don't get banned. You could understand what Janet was saying in the "If" song. A parent complained about my high school dance team dancing to it back then. It was suggestive, but not graphic

Janfriend said:

1) Madonna has never fucked a person on stage. She's faux-masturbated, but she never strapped a guy to a table and rode him.

2) Madonna has never put a recording of her orgasmic moaning on a record (Janet has put it on her last 5 albums).

3) Madonna has NEVER had a song as sexually suggestive as If, or Rope Burn, and whatever that orgasm song from All For You was. And READ the lyrics to If. She's talking about tasting a guy's cum on her lips. And she says so.

4) Madonna has done plenty of wrong in my eyes. However, I'm not a hypocrite about it, and I have no illusions to shatter as to who she is, what she does, and why she does it, which is something I've come across repeatedly in the Janet fanbase.

AaronMaximus said:

Janet didn't talk about tasting cum "taste your love" doesn't mean tasting semen which I believe Madonna plainly did in that sex book

Janet didn't make a book about sexual positions and fantasies nor did she masturbate on stage

What about "Erotica?"

Janet didn't walk around hin her bra in public nor did she lay around with naked men in her bed for all the world to see

Janet never showed publicly how she goes down on a guy like Madonna did

Oh lawd. It's Janet vs. Madonna!

Janfriend said:

incorrect.

Allow me some to play with your mind
And you'll get there again and again
Close your eyes and imagine my body
Undressed
Take your time, we've got all night
You on the rise as you're touchin' my
Thighs
And let me know what you like
If you like, I'll go down
Da down down down da down down
I'll hold you in my hand and baby
Your smooth and shiny feels good against
My lips sugar
I want you so bad I can taste your love
Right now, baby
Day and night, night and day


excuse me, but what does she mean by going down da down down down? and whatever could she mean by "your smooth any shiny feels good against my lips"?

and the book was sold only to adults, cost $50, and was wrapped in foil. janet's album didn't even have so much as a sticker.



no, she strapped people down and dry humped them for 10 years in front of thousands and thousands of teenagers. and again, the book was wrapped in foil and sold only to adults. it wasn't even out on the shelves, you had to ask for them to get it from the back room or behind the counter.



what about it? there isn't a song on that album (or in Madonna's entire catalog) that is as sexually as explicit as "If" or the other songs I mentioned previously. and that includes the title track. read the lyrics. they're suggestive, obviously, but it's more in the delivery than in the lyrics.



no, she dryhumped them on stage. as for the bra... no, in fact she went topless on her "janet." album.




no, she just sings about it. lots.
[This message was edited Sat Sep 20 21:20:49 PDT 2003 by AaronMaximus]

why do Janet fans so consistently and vehemently deny that Janet's music and stage performance isn't as sexually outrageous as Madonna's, if not moreso?


i've been arguing about this with them for 6 years. it's all right there in the work. they can never give an example (except the Sex book, which was only sold to adults and wrapped in foil and kept behind the counter at stores) that proves i'm wrong.

they point to her videos, but Janet's videos are even more sexually suggestive. Any Time, Any Place?


they point to her songs, but Madonna's songs have always been more clever, and often rely on double-entendre, and vocal and musical delivery than out and out sexual lyrics.


they point to her stage show, citing Blond Ambition's faux-masturbation scene, but that's mild compared to strapping guys to swivveling tables and dryhumping them at ever concert she ever did for 10 years.


the denial is ridiculous



don't get me wrong. i AM a janet fan. but this level of hypocrisy in her fans (among the level of other undesirable characterstics in them) has damn near driven me away from her over the years.
[This message was edited Sat Sep 20 21:33:50 PDT 2003 by AaronMaximus]

Why do Madonna fans make her out to be some sweet white goddess who doesn't do anything more sexual than the nest person?

Why do they claim Madonna's sex book was only sold to adults when plenty of teenagers got a hold of it?

Why do they point out Anytime, Anyplace as a sexually explicit video, when indeed it was the only sexual video she came out with as opposed to Madonna's numerous sexual videos?

Why don't Madonna fans admit she is the whore that she is and stop trying to compare here with Janet?

Why does she keep chaning her style of music to what's "popular" instead of staying true to her heart?

Why do SOME people feel the need to start a Madonna/Janet debate?

Janfriend said:

I don't. But I do get a little perturbed when Janet fans call her slutty, when Janet is just as or more guilty of the same.



which ones? and under what circumstances?

W

which numerous sexual videos? I can only think of Erotica and Justify My Love. the latter wasn't even on TV, as it went to video, and the former was only shown late at night. somehow when Janet ho's it up, she gets played day and night.






she plays the whore, but then again so does janet. we're talking about their images and art here.



her music hasn't actually changed style all that much. but, change and evolution is what is true to Madonna's heart. why does Janet keep making the same album over and over?




because Janet fans are hypocrites in denial about who their sweet innocent goddess is and how she made her bones.

you'll note that the Janet fan chose not to come up with any examples.


but i already told you that would happen.

AaronMaximus said:

OMG, why do yo always do this? I came on her to say I agree with what Stevie Nicks said and you had to say something about Janet. Janet was not the topic of this thread. If you want to talk shit about her, start your own thread. I'm not just a Janet fan nor do I represent all Janet fans, but you are obviously just a Madonna fan. Janet would never get on stage kissing Britney or Christina because her album wasn't selling and to cause a spectacle which is what Madonna did

Janfriend said:

no, but you talk shit about Madonna for the same things Janet does.


you may not represent all Janet fans, but you're just like all of them


no, i'm not only a Madonna fan. i just get sick of people trashing her on this site for shit that Janet and Prince do, but when they do it, it's all hunky dory.
[This message was edited Sat Sep 20 22:24:21 PDT 2003 by AaronMaximus]

AaronMaximus said:

So why don't you talk shit about the other artists that the people who agreed with Stevie like and leave Janet alone. You didn't say anything about Prince on here did you? Like I said: "Janet would never get on stage kissing Britney or Christina because her album wasn't selling and to cause a spectacle which is what Madonna did"

Janfriend said:

ah, because with Janet fans, it happens over and over and over. sorry, couldn't resist.

as for Janet and kissing 2 girls, we've been there already. but wait... when the Velvet Rope didn't sell as many copies as expected, who was out there talking about her favorite sexual positions and her nipple rings? and didn't she sing about having a 3some, including another girl, on that album?




the plot thickens



and by the way, when I'm on Madonna online forums or newsgroups, I'm often quite critical of her.
[This message was edited Sat Sep 20 22:27:19 PDT 2003 by AaronMaximus]

AaronMaximus said:

No, she didn't sing about a threesome and she didn't start talking about her piercings and favorite positions because her album wasn't selling. I don't remember her talking about different sexual positions

It seems like you're the hypocrite, first talking about what Madonna says and doesn't do and then what she does and doesn't say. What's more important to you?

To point out another thing, Janet did a striptease in the Velvet rope tour, she didn't hump the guy nor did she in the Janet tour. It was only on the latest tour that she grinded against him, so she hasn't been doing it for 10 years

Janfriend said:

oh. well maybe i have it mixed up. maybe the album didn't sell well because that's what she was doing. don't recall exactly!

i do remember her talking about piercings and sexual positions, though. even on Oprah of all places!

oh, and she did sing about a threesome, in Tonight's the Night, i believe.




don't even know what you're getting at there.



no, i was there in the front row of the 1994 tour, and she was humping the guy in the chair.


but even so, if we go with your version, "gosh, well she only did it on the latest tour, so she's not THAT big of a slut."


however, she did it on all of the tours. in fact, she hasn't even changed her show since i saw her, so obviously it was there then, because it's there now
[This message was edited Sat Sep 20 22:40:36 PDT 2003 by AaronMaximus]
[This message was edited Sat Sep 20 22:42:36 PDT 2003 by AaronMaximus]

AaronMaximus said:

First you say Madonna doesn write as explicitly as Janet which makes her less slutty. Then, you said Madonna doesn't do as many slutty things as Janet

To me it's what you do and Madonna has done far more slutty and whorish things than Janet and Madonna is a poser. She has admitted to doing thing just because that's what's "in" She doesn't even have her own identity

For the record Janet did not talk about sexual positions on Oprah. She did, however, talk about sexual sensations due to piercings

I never said Janet was perfect, you did

What Madonna did on the VMA's was disgusting because of the reasons for which she did it like everything she does. You should lay off. You really got some Janet hate going on. When you criticize other artists people don't jump all over you about Madonna. You should be respectful of other peoples opinions of your flawless goddess

why don't we agree that both women are stank ass hoes with money on the mind and sex as a means of pocketing that cash? i love them both...i like janet more than madonna. she is more fun, in my opinion. she's still a stank ass ho when it comes down to it though.

(imnotsayinthisjust2bnasty clears his throat)

...and now, back to your regularly scheduled 'stevie nicks on britney/madonna kiss AND I AGREE!' thread...

Janfriend said:

I didn't say that Madonna hasn't done slutty things. My issue, however, is that often, those things aren't quite as slutty as some make them out to be. And that Janet fans regularly trash Madonna for being slutty, when Janet's lyrics and stage shows actually ARE slutty, and not just interpreted to be.



oh, my bad. that's such a different thing. i rest my case.



not once in my life




but isn't that why people put their favorite artists in their profiles? for me to use as ammo when pointing out what hypocrites they are?

as for the rest... I don't think Madonna is flawless, in fact, I am fairly critical of some of the things she does. the first 2 singles from her album were horrible, i HATED the American Life video (the original), i think the make-up of her upcoming box set is ridiculous. those are just a few of the examples i can think of off the top of my head, from just the last couple of weeks of my comments about Madonna here.

why was what Madonna did with Britney any more disgusting that Janet humping a guy onstage? to sell albums? let me tell you, neither Janet or Madonna is in the music business as a hobby. that's the whole point of EVERYTHING they do. to sell albums.

AaronMaximus said:

Madonna's just jumping on the gay explosion wagon and that's sad

Janfriend said:

are you fucking kidding me? homosexual themes and issues have been a part of her work since the mid-80's. the "gay explosion wagon" was the rest of the world catching up to her

AaronMaximus said:

No, it hasn't been since the mid-80's and having back up dancers in your show doesn't make it a homosexual theme. She used homosexual themes in the early 90's and then stopped when she had her first child and now she's back on the wagon again

"Nobody knows me...nobody knows me
Nobody knows me...like you know me

Nobody knows me...nobody knows me
Nobody knows me...like,like you know me"

DavidEye said:

Indeed I agree She truly blew it way out of socket.Madonna played up to the show&that is what they do on the VMA's.Howard Stern did His thing as have others.only Andre "dice" Clay caught any real flack for his routine.Madonna knew where She was&so did Britney&Christina.No harm&No Foul.