twink69 said:

Speaking of "popularity fading",Mariah isn't exactly riding high these days either.Her 'Glitter' CD and movie flopped big time,and 'Charmbracelet' didn't exactly set the world on fire either.Embarassingly,she got dropped from Virgin Records after only one (flop) album.Her movie 'Wise Girls' went straight to video and she now has to tour small venues because she can't even sellout the large arenas anymore (Madonna's 2001 arena tour sold out everywhere).As for the other artists you mentioned,they've never reached Madonna's level of success (except for Prince) and probably never will.


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[This message was edited Wed Aug 20 6:43:14 PDT 2003 by DavidEye]

You are confusing yourself
What does success have to with talent??
Milli Vanilli sold more albums then Bjork so did Britney
what does that mean?
about Mariah she had one flop album? Glitter
which was delayed 1 month after it leaked and was released on september 11th 2001 sorrounding bad publicity
still she sold 3.5 million copies of that and Loverboy was the best selling single of 2001
Chrambracelet has sold 2x the amount of American Life?
What does that say?

FACT no matter what you say. Madonna CAN NOT SING
it's that simple, she is dismissed,
she is on the same bus as Britney, Jlo, the cheecky girls, there is NO difference
nothing you can say can amke Madonna a singer and that is the fundemental point
icon status, how much skin she shows has nothing to with her talent
She is an icon like Pamela anderson and Debbie does dallas
nothing greater

"what does success have to do with talent?"


Good point.The only reason I even brought up Madonna's success is because YOU keep saying she's not popular anymore,and that Mariah is more successful,blah blah blah.And then when I present evidence to the contrary,you now change your tune and insist that success has nothing to do with talent.

DavidEye said:

Fine whaen it comes to talent, Mariah can out sing Madonna, can produce and write better then Madonna (ie Madonna could never write and produce an album like Butterfly, Emotions or her debut album)

and success Mariah at just 33 has out sold Madonna

I wish I had never started this thread.

Madonna is not the ledgend you all think she is
and your argument that she is better then Mariah is laughable
While Madonna will be remembered with likes of Britney and Jlo and leg warmers

Mariah will be along side Aretha, Patti, Chaka, Bjork, Carole King real stars who were famous for their talent

p.s Mariah is far better looking then Madonna ever was lol
a bit shallow, but hey that's what Madonna's career was based on, shallowness
[This message was edited Wed Aug 20 7:15:08 PDT 2003 by twink69]

"Mariah can write and produce better than Madonna"

Bullshit.As I mentioned before,she's just basically doing the same song over and over..."Fantasy"..."Dreamlover"..."Honey"..."Heartbreaker"..."Loverboy.She writes simple R&B songs with simple melodies and lyrics.She then uses a ton of samples and calls up all the hot rappers to appear on the songs with her.She would never write something like "Ray Of Light".

Cloudbuster said:

I'm still not done arguing with you,either

You naming 5 songs from over 100 of songs she has written
Madonna could never write and produce and SING a song like Vison of Love or Bliss, she couldn't in a million years
Mariah could sing any Madonna song without breaking a sweat
you think Madonna is superior writer because she uses "techno" beats Whatever, let's she her produce anything as good as Mariah

and about been repeative?? Madonna has been doing the same songs since ray of light, that's boring
[This message was edited Wed Aug 20 7:19:37 PDT 2003 by twink69]
[This message was edited Wed Aug 20 7:20:55 PDT 2003 by twink69]

DavidEye said:

Bring it on.

These few songs are far better then anything Madonna ever has done or ever will


Bliss
Vision of Love
Subtle Invitation
Petals
Make it happen
There goes my heart
Breakdown
Reflections
Want you
Fourth of July
Vanishing (This son alone is better then the whole Madonna back catalogue)

The list is endless

The argument here is Talent and Importance to music
and Mariah wins over Madonna hands dwon
hey even MTV Mariah's worst enemies and Madonna's best friend
Agrees Mariah is the GREATEST and most Influencial singer
[This message was edited Wed Aug 20 7:29:41 PDT 2003 by twink69]

twink69 said:

he has got a point there...

and for the record...me thinks my ears would be much happier without maddy *and* mariah...



i saw we put them both on a desert island...maddy can annoy mariah to death with her chanting and mariah can do her dog call and kill maddy off...



THE WORLD WOULD BE A MUCH HAPPIER PLACE

DavidEye said:

and


I don't feel i need to like everything that my favorite artists put out. actually, i think it is rather unhealthy when people can't find anything wrong with what their faves do. my favorite painter is dali; my favorite photographer is cindy sherman; my favorite musician is prince. i don't like every piece of work they've created. and that is the norm, i think.

as for madonna and her shedding of images...listen, i've been watching this woman since borderline was on friday night videos. she has kept me interested and glued for years. the brilliance behind madonna is, regardless of whether you like her or not, you always want to know what her scene is...this time around. we always want to know what's next for her. even those who don't like her. and if you think madonna is not aware of this, you're incredibly mistaken. you say my concept of madonna pisses her off? yeah, it pisses her off right to the bank. sorry, man, but she LOVES that people think about her. i don't think she cares exactly what they think...just that they think of her. do you think she shops at the Gap or do you think she likes the idea of Baby Gap pushing her children's book? look, back when sex & erotica were coming out, madonna would have us all believe that she was really 'there' in her life. was she really a sex freak or a whore? no. it was an image. she has said, herself, that she was trying to be provocative and push buttons. she wanted attention. those projects were simply the vehicles designed to get that attention and, thus, have a successful record. yes, she has matured and now uses more mature issues to get attention but don't kid yourself, davideye...the need for attention is still there. she is ssecurely planted in the business of music. and as long as there is an audience waiting to see what's next, there will always be the changing images.
[This message was edited Wed Aug 20 8:30:11 PDT 2003 by imnotsayinthisjust2bnasty]

Quote Mariah on Madonna
I love to change my looks and play dress ups, but I don't need to do it every 5 mins to OVERCOMPENSATE for other areas and divert peoples attention from lack of talent

Mariah on Jlo, when asked if she thinks they are similar

I have a god given talent, her is umm something different

well said Mariah
[This message was edited Wed Aug 20 8:37:08 PDT 2003 by twink69]

sosgemini said:

Uhh... NOT!!!

twink69 said:

What the hell has Mariah influenced???

madartista said:

UHH YES
If you think Heartbreaker and Fantasy are the same then the same cold be say about Madonna's body of work
I mean that James Bond theme was sooo tired, get a new sound
and the over produced vocals yuk get over it
It's the same davce beat, same lyrics "Money sucks, AMericans suck, but I live in a 10 million dollar mansion in beverly hills" whatever she's fake
Mariah's a real talent, no need to over compensate

What the hell has Mariah influenced???[/quote]
anyone who wants to be singer, watch any talent show, American idol and so on
and all these girls want to sound like her

Christina Aguliera
Kelly Clarkson
Toni Braxton (even though she is older then Mariah
Jlo (well she just steals off her)
Jessica Simpson
and every other singer to come after her
even Jill Scott said that Mariah's voice blows her away and that she is under rated writer


,
[This message was edited Wed Aug 20 8:56:52 PDT 2003 by twink69]

twink69 said:

I said nothing about Mariah's songs, only that Madonna's songs since Ray of Light do not all sound the same. Have u heard them? I actually agree with u about "Die Another Day" -- without question the one Madonna song that I never cared for and wouldn't mind never hearing again. As for making up fake lyrics, and then saying that 3 albums worth of material have the same lyrics -- well, all other arguments are subjective, but that one is FACTUALLY WRONG. No need to discuss.

twink69 said:

anyone who wants to be singer, watch any talent show, American idol and so on
and all these girls want to sound like her

[This message was edited Wed Aug 20 8:56:52 PDT 2003 by twink69]
[/quote]

True. She does inspire the talent show set, i.e. least common denominator. I suppose she has had some influence, but THE MOST INFLUENTIAL? Please...

I just think the argument that Madonna is better writer because she writes constantly about her personal quest for spirituality, is crap
It's a bit self absorb, like she is the most imporant and enlighten person
Mariah writes universal and inspirational lyrics, while Madonna preaches

True. She does inspire the talent show set, i.e. least common denominator. I suppose she has had some influence, but THE MOST INFLUENTIAL? Please...[/quote]

?? Why are these people the last common denominator??
She has influenced people to sing a style she created
can Madonna say that?

Madonna fans think they are superior because the listen to her recycled euro dance beats lol


and Madonna making soft pron was appealing to who?? LMAO

AND YES mariah is the most influencial singer of the last 20 years, she inspired a whole generation of girls to TRY and sing
name another vocalist who has inspired more people in the last 20 years and sold that many records???
It wasn't panty dropping Madonna and her miming head mike?


,
[This message was edited Wed Aug 20 9:21:47 PDT 2003 by twink69]

twink69 said:

?? Why are these people the lost common denominator??
She has influenced people to sing a style she created
can Madonna say that?

Madonna fans think they are superior because the listen to her recycled euro dance beats lol

I know so many girls at school (performing arts school) who are so inspired and influenced by her
how does that make the the lost common denominator

and Madonna making soft pron was appealing to who?? LMAO[/quote]


Twink, u make me laugh!!! (in a good way) Peace.

Mariah Carey is a joke.

Moonbeam said:

If Mariah is Joke then Madonna is a Chris Rock special

twink69 said:

Mariah Carey has never had anything of substance to say. Ever.

You all think Mariah is crap and Madonna is god, because you were all in the 80's or over 40 or a friend of dorothy (I am too, but I have taste lol)

twink69 said:

I am 23.

twink69 said:

you may have actually hit on something there. young people today have much less of a connection to madonna than those of us who grew up watching her become what she is today. we saw her slowly conquer the world. the kids today have never seen her rise from the bottom.