independent and unofficial
Prince fan community
Welcome! Sign up or enter username and password to remember me
Forum jump
Forums > Music: Non-Prince > Great article/review on Madonna; addresses her detractors
« Previous topic  Next topic »
  New topic   Printable     (Log in to 'subscribe' to this topic)
Author

Tweet     Share

Message
Thread started 05/12/03 4:51pm

AaronSuperior

avatar

Great article/review on Madonna; addresses her detractors

American Heart Coming home to Madonna


by John Payne

She's a trooper . . .

First of all, you have to understand that a superstar can't get a break. We build 'em up to bust 'em back down, and we delight in watching that fall. Madonna can't win in the eyes of the critics - and she can't lose in the minds of her fans. So, Madonna has put out her new American Life, which as of this writing has reached No. 1 on the SoundScan charts – her second No. 1 in a row, following Music in 2000 - and its utter putridity according to the pundits is as predictable as sunshine in L.A. Why? Because Madonna's a superstar, and because her name is Madonna.

Perversely - you also have to realize that I thought Madonna's version of Swept Away was just as good as the original movie, which never was all that great - I've always enjoyed getting contrary in this kind of situation: To slag Madonna, I figure, is so easy that her critics just have to be wrong, since they're wrong about most everything about 90 percent of the time. Anyway, what's clear is this: People like to hate Madonna because she's successful, and because she's a successful woman. Perhaps far worse, haters hate Madonna because she just does not have to
give a shit what you all think.

Actually, everything Madonna does continues to be right, and that includes pulling from release her first video from American Life, which featured explosions, a runway show of high-fashion army fatigues and Madonna dancing in a military uniform; at the end of it, she threw a hand grenade into the lap of a President George W. Bush look-alike. (In the new version, she's merely singing in front of a backdrop of different countries' flags.) The backlash to her decision to pull the video included harsh words from the heavyweight political commentator Shakira, who called Madonna "spineless." Maybe so, but the "controversy" over the video was typically perfect pre-release publicity for the new album.

"Do I have to change my name?" Madonna asks at the outset of American Life. No, ! Madonna, it's too late, we know where you live. On the other hand, maybe she should change her name; that plus plastic surgery might allow her to get her music heard without the auto-wall of killjoy crap she's got to climb every time she puts out a new record (or makes a movie, or walks her dog). For a fact, American Life wouldn't be getting slammed if it was by a 22-year-old newcomer named Desirée or Shaquina or XXXtina. In order to deal fairly with Madonna, or with any veteran artist, eventually you have to toss all of the baggage you carry about that artist's past achievements or failures (and, as much as possible, your own) and try to look at the product as if it's by someone you never heard of.

What it takes to appreciate Madonna is the ability to put yourself in the shoes of a 16-year-old girl. (I've tried it, must say it feels pretty good.) More than any big-struttin' ho, Madonna was always and continues to be America's older sister, someone the little girls understand and can receive some basic guidance from. That's a level she aims at with even the more politicized tunes on American Life, such as the titular opening track. The anti-materialism lyrics of "American Life" are a decently stated put-things-in-perspective kind of thing: "I drive my Mini Cooper/And I'm feeling super-duper/Yo, they tell me I'm a trooper/And you know I'm satisfied/I do yoga and Pilates/And the room is full of hotties/So I'm checking out the bodies/And you know I'm satisfied." Sure, coming from the very wealthy Material Girl, the above-stated sentiments might be a bit much to swallow. Seems to me, however, that she'd probably know the truth in those words better than anyone. In an electronically messed-with voice over semi-garagey electric-guitar strums and rudimentary pickings, "I'm So Stupid" warns on the perils of fame: "I wanted to be/pretty as the people around me/But now I know for sure that I was stupid."

Her theme is, as you'd expect, finding her place in the world in th! e arms o f her love, with all of the complications that entails. The ballad "Nothing Fails" finds Madonna fondling her acoustic guitar, gazing sensitively into the gauzy distance and thinkin' about stuff. "When I get lost in space I can return to this place, 'cause . . . you're the one . . . I'm not religious, but I feel so moved." It's been theorized that Madonna has lost her gift for tuning into the Zeitgeist, but in this unpretentious and well-sung number she displays an almost scientific approach to finding a "universal" message that Christians, Jews, Muslims and Shriners can all smile and nod to. But in "Static Process" - "When you're around I don't know who I am" - trouble brews as Madonna finds herself losing her self in her lover's ego. She's giving the little girls a word of caution: "Jesus Christ, will you look at me?" - domestic bliss ain't all it's cracked up to be. Then again, as she says in "Love Profusion," "Only you make me feel good." Just look before you leap, 'kay, girls?

Aided by Music's returning producer/co-writer, Mirwais Ahmadzai, American Life boasts a leaner and less glossily electronic approach than their previous collaborations, and is loaded with funky little ditties about simple joys and simple problems. Atop some fairly tasty electronic thumping twined with her own acoustic guitars and well-placed change-ups and modulations, the spunky (and ambiguous) "Hollywood" says, "I tried to leave it but I never could . . . Hollywood - how could it hurt you when it looks so good?" Then she complains a bit about L.A. Radio stations always playing the same songs: "Push the button/change the channel." Good idea.

Despite her excellent acting when making lyrical statements about the burdens of fame and fortune, Madonna seems impervious to the normal pressures that would've completely messed up other big stars. You get the sense that she feels obligated to address these serious issues, t! o answer her critics, but that none of it is all that upsetting. Her act compels her to deepen her "message," such as it is. Not that we really expect our superstars to suffer or anything. We know it's all about who's got the best act, who's going to represent all those emo-shuns we've heard about on TV - fear, loneliness, heartbreak, dreams pursued/hopes dashed. Even so, in "Nobody Knows Me," featuring the Vocodered voice of Madonna atop de rigueur synth squishes and tightly gated drum-funk programs, one can imagine real feeling deeply ingrained in this particular icon. "Why should I care what the world thinks of me?" That is, yes, she does care what the world thinks of her. She says she'll just withdraw from the public eye, 'cause who needs this, huh? "Intervention" ("I know that love will keep us together/I know that love will take us away from here") harps again on escape - from fame, from false expectations, etc., with love as salvation. In "Mother and Father," she finds she's never left home, though she knows she must: "I got to give it up/find someone to love me." She lapses back to her Diana Ross vocal chirps over a rudimentary urban old-school funk track, synths and squeaks and squawks and wocka-chocka electric guitar, and - uh-oh - she's rapping pop psychology, she's "A victim of a kind of rage." As we all are, I'd wager.

Your cruise down to the last song is painless and crisp. On "Easy Ride," pensive, minor-key chording details Madonna's hopes for herself, her children and her husband. The arrangement is widescreen, string synths rolling counterpoint prettiness over Madonna's full-circle route to what she's been driving at all along: She wants a home, she's looked so long, and now suspects that, for better or worse, she's found one.

Mere actress though Madonna may be, it's not even like she can or does feel scorn toward her detractors; interestingly, she's at her most genuine and revealing with this endless s! hrugging at the perils of fame and the trap she's set for herself. Meanwhile, you might be someone who wishes for something really foul to happen in Madonna's life, to shake her up and out of her homey torpor. That's because you're not a sympathetic 16-year-old girl, or a fat kid, or a gay kid. You may be someone who's more interested in tracking artists' career arcs than in the more pertinent idea of watching them follow their muses. Whatever the case may be, to every frickin' geek music expert who now feels compelled to dryly say, "John, it's just that her music sucks," my equally dumb but correct reply is: You just wouldn't know.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #1 posted 05/12/03 5:22pm

Anxiety

Hey, I have no problem with Madonna. I just think American Life is a crap album, so I'm sitting this incarnation out...I'm a Bowie fanatic but I'm not afraid to admit certain of his albums were kinda crappy compared to others...and if you like everything a particular artist puts out, slump or no, then right on for you - you're enjoying your money's worth. I'll be listening to "Ray of Light" and "Bedtime Stories" till she puts out something I like better.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #2 posted 05/12/03 5:30pm

mistermaxxx

Cry Madonna a River.bottom line She needs to get back to Her New York Roots of Music Making.
mistermaxxx
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #3 posted 05/12/03 6:15pm

PANDURITO

avatar

AMERICAN LIFE is much better in 2003 than BEDTIME STORIES was in 1994.
She wanted badly to do her version of Björk's DEBUT, but she isn't Björk.

I wish I had seen Maddy's face mad when she saw DANCER IN THE DARK. Björk winning prizes for her first movie ever, including Cannes', and saying she´d never act again. mad
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #4 posted 05/12/03 6:40pm

AaronSuperior

avatar

PANDURITO said:

AMERICAN LIFE is much better in 2003 than BEDTIME STORIES was in 1994.
She wanted badly to do her version of Björk's DEBUT, but she isn't Björk.

I wish I had seen Maddy's face mad when she saw DANCER IN THE DARK. Björk winning prizes for her first movie ever, including Cannes', and saying she´d never act again. mad



well, to be fair, Madonna was pretty great in her first feature role in a movie, Desperately Seeking Susan. unfortunately she's been hung up on wanting a futher acting career beyond that. we'll see if Bjork's so great if she ever tries her hand at it again.

but I agree with you on Bedtime Stories. BS and Music both seem like in-between water-treading exercises. it seems like only EVERY OTHER album is where Madonna's heart and true artistic passions lie. Her debt was very impressive and set the standard for dance pop for 2 decades. the followup Like A Virgin was a smash hit, but rather lacking in quality tunes and had some fairly rote production that never really ignites a spark. True Blue was the one where people really started to pay attention to her as a serious dance-pop artist (if there was such an animal in 1986, it was her), while the followups (Who's That Girl and You Can Dance) were merely placeholders. Like A Prayer was great, followed by the throwaway (yet quaintly charming) I'm Breathless. Then came Erotica, a no-holds-barred in-your-face onslaught of creativity and shock & awe. That was followed with the "forgive-me, I've gone astray, take me back" Bedtime Stories album. A decent album, with some good tunes, but hardly much of an artistic statement. ROL on the other hand was another tour-de-force, followed by Music, a rather odd mix of party music and introspective ballads, that never really comes together as a whole. Now we have American Life, another clear-cut missive from the Her Highness, which even with disparate styles, sounds like it all fits together. Unfortunately, the trend predicts that her next album is going to probably be something thrown-together and an in-between, but for now, I'm very happy with American Life. It joins the ranks of The First Album, True Blue, Like A Prayer, Erotica, and Ray Of Light as an album that sounds like an album, instead of just a collection of stray songs, which the others come across as (to me, anyway).
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #5 posted 05/12/03 6:44pm

AaronSuperior

avatar

mistermaxxx said:

Cry Madonna a River.bottom line She needs to get back to Her New York Roots of Music Making.



what's that, goofy party music that have dumb lyrics, with no real point and pushing buttons just for the sake of pushing buttons?


i suppose that would be a nice diversion once in awhile (like we got with the songs Music and Beautiful Stranger), but i prefer my Madonna exhibiting some self & spiritual & even lyrical awareness for the albums.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #6 posted 05/12/03 8:11pm

rdhull

avatar

mistermaxxx said:

Cry Madonna a River..


you sure did when bell hooks took her to task smile
"Climb in my fur."
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #7 posted 05/12/03 8:44pm

imnotsayinthis
just2bnasty

AaronSuperior said:

PANDURITO said:

AMERICAN LIFE is much better in 2003 than BEDTIME STORIES was in 1994.
She wanted badly to do her version of Björk's DEBUT, but she isn't Björk.

I wish I had seen Maddy's face mad when she saw DANCER IN THE DARK. Björk winning prizes for her first movie ever, including Cannes', and saying she´d never act again. mad



well, to be fair, Madonna was pretty great in her first feature role in a movie, Desperately Seeking Susan. unfortunately she's been hung up on wanting a futher acting career beyond that. we'll see if Bjork's so great if she ever tries her hand at it again.

but I agree with you on Bedtime Stories. BS and Music both seem like in-between water-treading exercises. it seems like only EVERY OTHER album is where Madonna's heart and true artistic passions lie. Her debt was very impressive and set the standard for dance pop for 2 decades. the followup Like A Virgin was a smash hit, but rather lacking in quality tunes and had some fairly rote production that never really ignites a spark. True Blue was the one where people really started to pay attention to her as a serious dance-pop artist (if there was such an animal in 1986, it was her), while the followups (Who's That Girl and You Can Dance) were merely placeholders. Like A Prayer was great, followed by the throwaway (yet quaintly charming) I'm Breathless. Then came Erotica, a no-holds-barred in-your-face onslaught of creativity and shock & awe. That was followed with the "forgive-me, I've gone astray, take me back" Bedtime Stories album. A decent album, with some good tunes, but hardly much of an artistic statement. ROL on the other hand was another tour-de-force, followed by Music, a rather odd mix of party music and introspective ballads, that never really comes together as a whole. Now we have American Life, another clear-cut missive from the Her Highness, which even with disparate styles, sounds like it all fits together. Unfortunately, the trend predicts that her next album is going to probably be something thrown-together and an in-between, but for now, I'm very happy with American Life. It joins the ranks of The First Album, True Blue, Like A Prayer, Erotica, and Ray Of Light as an album that sounds like an album, instead of just a collection of stray songs, which the others come across as (to me, anyway).

i agree with you 100%. this is why, even though half the time i'm not impressed by her, i've never given up on madonna. personally, i think those in between albums are only so-so because she is just putting something out for the sake of being a star rather than waiting until she really has something to say. erotica had a lot of commentary involved, as did like a prayer and ray of light. the other records are "safe".
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #8 posted 05/12/03 8:47pm

VinnyM27

avatar

PANDURITO said:

AMERICAN LIFE is much better in 2003 than BEDTIME STORIES was in 1994.
She wanted badly to do her version of Björk's DEBUT, but she isn't Björk.

I wish I had seen Maddy's face mad when she saw DANCER IN THE DARK. Björk winning prizes for her first movie ever, including Cannes', and saying she´d never act again. mad


I disagree. There is only one Bjork song on there. The rest of the album is steamy R&B with a little dance! I think "Bedtime Stories" would have been her best album if "Let Down Your Guard" were on there (and LAP would have been her best if "Supernatural Love" were on there). I loved "Bedtime Stories" and think that while "American Life" is good, its pretty cold and short. There is isn't much to grab on to and there are no real pop hits. Stilll, a good attempt. I agree with Maxx. Get back to NY dance!
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #9 posted 05/12/03 9:28pm

endorphin74

mistermaxxx said:

Cry Madonna a River.bottom line She needs to get back to Her New York Roots of Music Making.


rolleyes

yadda-yadda, it's always the same old thing... why do we have such a BIG PROBLEM when our superstars change, grow or experiment?
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #10 posted 05/12/03 9:30pm

endorphin74

VinnyM27 said:

PANDURITO said:

AMERICAN LIFE is much better in 2003 than BEDTIME STORIES was in 1994.
She wanted badly to do her version of Björk's DEBUT, but she isn't Björk.

I wish I had seen Maddy's face mad when she saw DANCER IN THE DARK. Björk winning prizes for her first movie ever, including Cannes', and saying she´d never act again. mad


I disagree. There is only one Bjork song on there. The rest of the album is steamy R&B with a little dance!


co-sign

Bedtime Stories was much less of an attempt to do Bjork, and much more an attempt to ride the hot and sexy R&B train that Janet was conducting with "Janet"

IMO, of course...
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #11 posted 05/13/03 12:29am

mistermaxxx

rdhull said:

mistermaxxx said:

Cry Madonna a River..


you sure did when bell hooks took her to task smile
is someone trying to get my attention? is someone speaking to Me? HMMM???
mistermaxxx
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #12 posted 05/13/03 12:32am

mistermaxxx

endorphin74 said:

mistermaxxx said:

Cry Madonna a River.bottom line She needs to get back to Her New York Roots of Music Making.


rolleyes

yadda-yadda, it's always the same old thing... why do we have such a BIG PROBLEM when our superstars change, grow or experiment?
this Last album by Her Stunk&The Buying Public said no thanks to Her.for all of her Hype&Begging with the Low-Budget Sinead O'Conner Hear Me Pick my Guitar Folks are staying away in Droves.that is what Madonna gets for dropping Home-Made 2nd tier Tapes as a Album with no Hits.at least She will get Her 20nth Year Box Set&Get Her Props for that.but more albums like this CLunker&She will have to get back into the Groove.
mistermaxxx
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #13 posted 05/13/03 12:43am

DavidEye

mistermaxxx said:

endorphin74 said:

mistermaxxx said:

Cry Madonna a River.bottom line She needs to get back to Her New York Roots of Music Making.


rolleyes

yadda-yadda, it's always the same old thing... why do we have such a BIG PROBLEM when our superstars change, grow or experiment?
this Last album by Her Stunk&The Buying Public said no thanks to Her.for all of her Hype&Begging with the Low-Budget Sinead O'Conner Hear Me Pick my Guitar Folks are staying away in Droves.that is what Madonna gets for dropping Home-Made 2nd tier Tapes as a Album with no Hits.at least She will get Her 20nth Year Box Set&Get Her Props for that.but more albums like this CLunker&She will have to get back into the Groove.



Hmmm...a Michael Jackson fan giving career advice to another artist??? Isn't that absurd!
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #14 posted 05/13/03 12:59am

DavidEye

PANDURITO said:

AMERICAN LIFE is much better in 2003 than BEDTIME STORIES was in 1994.
She wanted badly to do her version of Björk's DEBUT, but she isn't Björk.

I wish I had seen Maddy's face mad when she saw DANCER IN THE DARK. Björk winning prizes for her first movie ever, including Cannes', and saying she´d never act again. mad



I think 'Bedtime Stories' is a "warm" album.It's sexy but not sleazy.After the whole 'Erotica/Sex/Body Of Evidence' phase,it's obvious that Madonna wanted to tone things down a little.She wanted to make a slinky,inviting R&B record containing songs with *melody* (i.e.,"Take A Bow" and "Secret").Not her most innovative work,but it's still a very good album that I listen to frequently.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #15 posted 05/13/03 1:09am

DavidEye

AaronSuperior said:

mistermaxxx said:

Cry Madonna a River.bottom line She needs to get back to Her New York Roots of Music Making.



what's that, goofy party music that have dumb lyrics, with no real point and pushing buttons just for the sake of pushing buttons?


i suppose that would be a nice diversion once in awhile (like we got with the songs Music and Beautiful Stranger), but i prefer my Madonna exhibiting some self & spiritual & even lyrical awareness for the albums.




Thanks Aaron for that response! When I visit the Madonna forums,there are always a bunch of fans living in the past.They say things like "she should work with Patrick Leonard again" and so on.Clearly,these fans want another "Vogue" or "Like A Prayer" but Madonna has already done that! Artistically,she's in another time and place but I guess knuckleheads like Mistermaxx can't comprehend the concept of "musical growth".
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #16 posted 05/13/03 3:51am

Marrk

avatar

DavidEye said:

mistermaxxx said:

endorphin74 said:

mistermaxxx said:

Cry Madonna a River.bottom line She needs to get back to Her New York Roots of Music Making.


rolleyes

yadda-yadda, it's always the same old thing... why do we have such a BIG PROBLEM when our superstars change, grow or experiment?
this Last album by Her Stunk&The Buying Public said no thanks to Her.for all of her Hype&Begging with the Low-Budget Sinead O'Conner Hear Me Pick my Guitar Folks are staying away in Droves.that is what Madonna gets for dropping Home-Made 2nd tier Tapes as a Album with no Hits.at least She will get Her 20nth Year Box Set&Get Her Props for that.but more albums like this CLunker&She will have to get back into the Groove.



Hmmm...a Michael Jackson fan giving career advice to another artist??? Isn't that absurd!


I don't think so, Michaels career covers five decades.Madges won't.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #17 posted 05/13/03 4:16am

DavidEye

Marrk said:

DavidEye said:

mistermaxxx said:

endorphin74 said:

mistermaxxx said:

Cry Madonna a River.bottom line She needs to get back to Her New York Roots of Music Making.


rolleyes

yadda-yadda, it's always the same old thing... why do we have such a BIG PROBLEM when our superstars change, grow or experiment?
this Last album by Her Stunk&The Buying Public said no thanks to Her.for all of her Hype&Begging with the Low-Budget Sinead O'Conner Hear Me Pick my Guitar Folks are staying away in Droves.that is what Madonna gets for dropping Home-Made 2nd tier Tapes as a Album with no Hits.at least She will get Her 20nth Year Box Set&Get Her Props for that.but more albums like this CLunker&She will have to get back into the Groove.



Hmmm...a Michael Jackson fan giving career advice to another artist??? Isn't that absurd!


I don't think so, Michaels career covers five decades.Madges won't.







I just find it absurd and very ironic for a Michael Jackson fan to be dissing another artist's career.The truth is,these days,Madonna is more relevent than Michael and most of the other "hot" artists of the 80s.Her career is doing just fine.MJ,on the other hand,gets a ton of negative press,to the point where nobody even notices the music anymore! And I say this as someone who is actually a *fan* of his.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #18 posted 05/13/03 12:18pm

mistermaxxx

Marrk said:

DavidEye said:

mistermaxxx said:

endorphin74 said:

mistermaxxx said:

Cry Madonna a River.bottom line She needs to get back to Her New York Roots of Music Making.


rolleyes

yadda-yadda, it's always the same old thing... why do we have such a BIG PROBLEM when our superstars change, grow or experiment?
this Last album by Her Stunk&The Buying Public said no thanks to Her.for all of her Hype&Begging with the Low-Budget Sinead O'Conner Hear Me Pick my Guitar Folks are staying away in Droves.that is what Madonna gets for dropping Home-Made 2nd tier Tapes as a Album with no Hits.at least She will get Her 20nth Year Box Set&Get Her Props for that.but more albums like this CLunker&She will have to get back into the Groove.



Hmmm...a Michael Jackson fan giving career advice to another artist??? Isn't that absurd!


I don't think so, Michaels career covers five decades.Madges won't.
you know what time it is.how can somebody call me Me a Name? MJ was already a Legend when Madonna was just getting out of Her Baby Teeth.MJ set the Model for Madonna.MJ is coming off a Number 1 Album by the way&Folks still talk about His Great Run of Albums.Madonna doesn't have One Album to Match MJ.Never has Never will Period.Never will Break down doors like MJ never will be as Important as MJ period.MichaelMania 20 Years ago where is MadonnaMania? She ain't never been on MJ's Level.MJ's Career speaks for itself&He is a Twice Inducted Hall Of Fame Member.A Artist of Firsts&Also A Cat that Paved the way for many&Still is Influencing Many Acts you see nowadays.Cats like Slash,R.Kelly,Usher,Justin Timberlake,Nile Rogers,Smokey Robinson,Berry Gordy,Quincy Jones give it up for MJ.Brittney Spears gives it up for Madonna.I Rest My Case.
mistermaxxx
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #19 posted 05/13/03 9:35pm

AaronSuperior

avatar

Marrk said:

DavidEye said:

mistermaxxx said:

endorphin74 said:

mistermaxxx said:

Cry Madonna a River.bottom line She needs to get back to Her New York Roots of Music Making.


rolleyes

yadda-yadda, it's always the same old thing... why do we have such a BIG PROBLEM when our superstars change, grow or experiment?
this Last album by Her Stunk&The Buying Public said no thanks to Her.for all of her Hype&Begging with the Low-Budget Sinead O'Conner Hear Me Pick my Guitar Folks are staying away in Droves.that is what Madonna gets for dropping Home-Made 2nd tier Tapes as a Album with no Hits.at least She will get Her 20nth Year Box Set&Get Her Props for that.but more albums like this CLunker&She will have to get back into the Groove.



Hmmm...a Michael Jackson fan giving career advice to another artist??? Isn't that absurd!


I don't think so, Michaels career covers five decades.Madges won't.



Madonna didn't have a lunatic father with a gun to the back of her head (figuratively or literally, you decide) at the age of 6 to get where she is.

MJ does what he does now because it's all he knows. and it shows. he only knows one thing, and he keeps showing us that one thing. he only knows the little world of Michael Jackson. his career is fading fast. he knows it, i know it, and deep down, you know it.

oh, and it didn't span 5 decades. it's only been going since 1970 (the Jackson 5's debut single) up to... well, we'll be generous and call it 2001, when he released his last album and had his last TV concert extravaganza. that's only 31 years. he might've been forced into it in the 60's and made music in the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's, and 00's, but it only adds up to, at most, 33 years, if you want to go ahead and give him last year and this year, where he did absolutely nothing.
[This message was edited Tue May 13 21:40:44 PDT 2003 by AaronSuperior]
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #20 posted 05/14/03 1:38pm

TRON

AaronSuperior said:

Marrk said:

DavidEye said:

mistermaxxx said:

endorphin74 said:

mistermaxxx said:

Cry Madonna a River.bottom line She needs to get back to Her New York Roots of Music Making.


rolleyes

yadda-yadda, it's always the same old thing... why do we have such a BIG PROBLEM when our superstars change, grow or experiment?
this Last album by Her Stunk&The Buying Public said no thanks to Her.for all of her Hype&Begging with the Low-Budget Sinead O'Conner Hear Me Pick my Guitar Folks are staying away in Droves.that is what Madonna gets for dropping Home-Made 2nd tier Tapes as a Album with no Hits.at least She will get Her 20nth Year Box Set&Get Her Props for that.but more albums like this CLunker&She will have to get back into the Groove.



Hmmm...a Michael Jackson fan giving career advice to another artist??? Isn't that absurd!


I don't think so, Michaels career covers five decades.Madges won't.



Madonna didn't have a lunatic father with a gun to the back of her head (figuratively or literally, you decide) at the age of 6 to get where she is.

MJ does what he does now because it's all he knows. and it shows. he only knows one thing, and he keeps showing us that one thing. he only knows the little world of Michael Jackson. his career is fading fast. he knows it, i know it, and deep down, you know it.

oh, and it didn't span 5 decades. it's only been going since 1970 (the Jackson 5's debut single) up to... well, we'll be generous and call it 2001, when he released his last album and had his last TV concert extravaganza. that's only 31 years. he might've been forced into it in the 60's and made music in the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's, and 00's, but it only adds up to, at most, 33 years, if you want to go ahead and give him last year and this year, where he did absolutely nothing.
[This message was edited Tue May 13 21:40:44 PDT 2003 by AaronSuperior]

And on top of that, Michael's period of influence ended with 'Dangerous' and if you're generous the ho-hum 'History' singles. And he takes a million year breaks in between projects, where Madonna puts something out on average, every other year and always has a tide-me-over between albums. Plus, she's got a wide range of things to say and a diverseness to her sound. Michael's made the same album 3 times in a row now and has only about 3 songs he keeps writing over and over again. He's got the "come on to/stalk the girl" song that's supposed to make his sexuality believable like "Remember The Time". He's got his "fame sucks/I'm so misunderstood" song like "Scream". And he's got his "I'm the pied piper/all the children love me/aren't I a great humanitarian" song like "Heal The World". Now, I love Michael. And I love what he's capable of. But he's got his bag of tricks and it's getting smaller and smaller as the years go by.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #21 posted 05/14/03 8:40pm

mistermaxxx

DavidEye said:

AaronSuperior said:

mistermaxxx said:

Cry Madonna a River.bottom line She needs to get back to Her New York Roots of Music Making.



what's that, goofy party music that have dumb lyrics, with no real point and pushing buttons just for the sake of pushing buttons?


i suppose that would be a nice diversion once in awhile (like we got with the songs Music and Beautiful Stranger), but i prefer my Madonna exhibiting some self & spiritual & even lyrical awareness for the albums.




Thanks Aaron for that response! When I visit the Madonna forums,there are always a bunch of fans living in the past.They say things like "she should work with Patrick Leonard again" and so on.Clearly,these fans want another "Vogue" or "Like A Prayer" but Madonna has already done that! Artistically,she's in another time and place but I guess knuckleheads like Mistermaxx can't comprehend the concept of "musical growth".
Only KnuckleHeads Comprehend a Has-Been Like Madonna.like Eminem said Nobody listens to Techno.44&Madonna is a Blonde Burned-Out Has-Been.i got a Message for Madonna from the Isleys&R.Kelly 1-800 I Need a Hit ASAP Ext# please allow a file Share or two.drop another Ray of Light,Music,American Life again&Madonna will actually be Begging Eminem for a Job.
mistermaxxx
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #22 posted 05/14/03 9:04pm

rainbowray

Where the hell is Cher when we need her? At least she doesn't have to "hype it up" and all that, and doesn't take herself too seriously..AND she carries a tune live..Big difference there..AND has staying power..plus the plastic surgeon helps..mr.green
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #23 posted 05/15/03 9:08pm

AaronSuperior

avatar

rainbowray said:

Where the hell is Cher when we need her? At least she doesn't have to "hype it up" and all that,



did you see her "farewell" concer special on NBC a few weeks ago? if that isn't "hyping it up" i don't know what is biggrin

love her, but she is what she is biggrin
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #24 posted 05/16/03 6:00am

Axchi696

avatar

TRON said

And on top of that, Michael's period of influence ended with 'Dangerous' and if you're generous the ho-hum 'History' singles. And he takes a million year breaks in between projects, where Madonna puts something out on average, every other year and always has a tide-me-over between albums. Plus, she's got a wide range of things to say and a diverseness to her sound. Michael's made the same album 3 times in a row now and has only about 3 songs he keeps writing over and over again. He's got the "come on to/stalk the girl" song that's supposed to make his sexuality believable like "Remember The Time". He's got his "fame sucks/I'm so misunderstood" song like "Scream". And he's got his "I'm the pied piper/all the children love me/aren't I a great humanitarian" song like "Heal The World". Now, I love Michael. And I love what he's capable of. But he's got his bag of tricks and it's getting smaller and smaller as the years go by.



Exactly; MJ has written about the same topics ad nauseum on his albums. Here are some other topics that you missed.

Anti Press/Media Song: Wanna Be Startin Something; Leave Me Alone; Why You Wanna Trip on Me; They Don't Care About Us (actually, there are about 5 on HIStory); Is It Scary?; Privacy

Misogynistic song: Billie Jean; Dirty Diana; Give In To Me; Blood on the Dance Floor

Then you have the requisite rock song on the album; the formulaic 'I'm sexual' ballad (Lady in My Life, I Just Can't Stop Loving You, Break of Dawn); you have the girl that MJ wants but can't get (she's 'Invincible', she's 'Dangerous'); Michael is 'Bad', he's 'Unbreakable', he's 'HIStory'. You Rock My World = The Way You Make Me Feel + Baby Be Mine + Remember the Time + Rodney Jerkins.

When I was younger, I was a huge MJ fan; as I grew older, however, I realized that MJ might just be one of the most overrated artists of all time. Spare me the cliched 'he flipped the script' comments. The man is in a rut; he hasn't said anything new since 1983. Just because the lack of creativity in modern R&B forces everyoen to copy his old styles doesn't still make him relevant.
I'm the first mammal to wear pants.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #25 posted 05/16/03 6:07am

DavidEye

mistermaxxx said:

DavidEye said:

AaronSuperior said:

mistermaxxx said:

Cry Madonna a River.bottom line She needs to get back to Her New York Roots of Music Making.



what's that, goofy party music that have dumb lyrics, with no real point and pushing buttons just for the sake of pushing buttons?


i suppose that would be a nice diversion once in awhile (like we got with the songs Music and Beautiful Stranger), but i prefer my Madonna exhibiting some self & spiritual & even lyrical awareness for the albums.




Thanks Aaron for that response! When I visit the Madonna forums,there are always a bunch of fans living in the past.They say things like "she should work with Patrick Leonard again" and so on.Clearly,these fans want another "Vogue" or "Like A Prayer" but Madonna has already done that! Artistically,she's in another time and place but I guess knuckleheads like Mistermaxx can't comprehend the concept of "musical growth".
Only KnuckleHeads Comprehend a Has-Been Like Madonna.like Eminem said Nobody listens to Techno.44&Madonna is a Blonde Burned-Out Has-Been.i got a Message for Madonna from the Isleys&R.Kelly 1-800 I Need a Hit ASAP Ext# please allow a file Share or two.drop another Ray of Light,Music,American Life again&Madonna will actually be Begging Eminem for a Job.



So,Madonna is a "has-been",huh? This is coming from someone who *still* thinks that Michael Jackson is the "King Of Pop" and that R.Kelly is in the same league as Sam Cooke...lol...
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #26 posted 05/16/03 12:21pm

mistermaxxx

DavidEye said:

mistermaxxx said:

DavidEye said:

AaronSuperior said:

mistermaxxx said:

Cry Madonna a River.bottom line She needs to get back to Her New York Roots of Music Making.



what's that, goofy party music that have dumb lyrics, with no real point and pushing buttons just for the sake of pushing buttons?


i suppose that would be a nice diversion once in awhile (like we got with the songs Music and Beautiful Stranger), but i prefer my Madonna exhibiting some self & spiritual & even lyrical awareness for the albums.




Thanks Aaron for that response! When I visit the Madonna forums,there are always a bunch of fans living in the past.They say things like "she should work with Patrick Leonard again" and so on.Clearly,these fans want another "Vogue" or "Like A Prayer" but Madonna has already done that! Artistically,she's in another time and place but I guess knuckleheads like Mistermaxx can't comprehend the concept of "musical growth".
Only KnuckleHeads Comprehend a Has-Been Like Madonna.like Eminem said Nobody listens to Techno.44&Madonna is a Blonde Burned-Out Has-Been.i got a Message for Madonna from the Isleys&R.Kelly 1-800 I Need a Hit ASAP Ext# please allow a file Share or two.drop another Ray of Light,Music,American Life again&Madonna will actually be Begging Eminem for a Job.



So,Madonna is a "has-been",huh? This is coming from someone who *still* thinks that Michael Jackson is the "King Of Pop" and that R.Kelly is in the same league as Sam Cooke...lol...
Michael did More Numbers with Less Hype with His Last Set than Madonna.Mike ain't done.as for R.Kelly can't nobody out now touch Him.let Madonna have TOmmy Mottola putting His TOny Sorprano anitics on Her Career&we will see what you have to say.in case you don't remember: I was a Big Madonna Fan from 83-90&Still Respect Her Singles Track Record.I think She is One of the Baddest Hustlers in the Biz Period.Madonna is a Mack Fo SHO.but Musically I ain't feeling much since "Bedtime stories".
mistermaxxx
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #27 posted 05/16/03 12:25pm

mistermaxxx

Axchi696 said:

TRON said

And on top of that, Michael's period of influence ended with 'Dangerous' and if you're generous the ho-hum 'History' singles. And he takes a million year breaks in between projects, where Madonna puts something out on average, every other year and always has a tide-me-over between albums. Plus, she's got a wide range of things to say and a diverseness to her sound. Michael's made the same album 3 times in a row now and has only about 3 songs he keeps writing over and over again. He's got the "come on to/stalk the girl" song that's supposed to make his sexuality believable like "Remember The Time". He's got his "fame sucks/I'm so misunderstood" song like "Scream". And he's got his "I'm the pied piper/all the children love me/aren't I a great humanitarian" song like "Heal The World". Now, I love Michael. And I love what he's capable of. But he's got his bag of tricks and it's getting smaller and smaller as the years go by.



Exactly; MJ has written about the same topics ad nauseum on his albums. Here are some other topics that you missed.

Anti Press/Media Song: Wanna Be Startin Something; Leave Me Alone; Why You Wanna Trip on Me; They Don't Care About Us (actually, there are about 5 on HIStory); Is It Scary?; Privacy

Misogynistic song: Billie Jean; Dirty Diana; Give In To Me; Blood on the Dance Floor

Then you have the requisite rock song on the album; the formulaic 'I'm sexual' ballad (Lady in My Life, I Just Can't Stop Loving You, Break of Dawn); you have the girl that MJ wants but can't get (she's 'Invincible', she's 'Dangerous'); Michael is 'Bad', he's 'Unbreakable', he's 'HIStory'. You Rock My World = The Way You Make Me Feel + Baby Be Mine + Remember the Time + Rodney Jerkins.

When I was younger, I was a huge MJ fan; as I grew older, however, I realized that MJ might just be one of the most overrated artists of all time. Spare me the cliched 'he flipped the script' comments. The man is in a rut; he hasn't said anything new since 1983. Just because the lack of creativity in modern R&B forces everyoen to copy his old styles doesn't still make him relevant.
there are alot of Artists called SuperStars with far less formula than he has&that speaks alot for MJ IMHO.what Artist doesn't have a Set Formula? you can say that about Every major Artist if you break it all down.alot of Artist dig His Formula for Success because Most Acts don't have the ablity to try different things as He has done.MJ is One of the Greatest Artists EVER IMHO.my main knock with Him is Him Challenging Himself&the fact He doesn't release enough Material.but make no mistake about it Mike can still easily Roll if He put His Mind to It fully.
mistermaxxx
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
  New topic   Printable     (Log in to 'subscribe' to this topic)
« Previous topic  Next topic »
Forums > Music: Non-Prince > Great article/review on Madonna; addresses her detractors