Happy 40th Anniversary to The Jacksons’ fifteenth studio album Victory, originally released July 2, 1984.

In 1984, fresh off the unprecedented success of Michael Jackson’s Thriller album, and with a world buzzing on The Jackson 5 reunion as a keystone moment of Motown’s televised retrospective performance Motown 25, Yesterday, Today and Tomorrow, the desire for a fully-fledged Jackson family reunion was at an all-time high.

Although The Jacksons (as they were known sans Jermaine and with the inclusion of brother Randy) hadn’t officially disbanded, Michael’s undeniable success as a solo artist threw the future of the group into question. So when news of the brothers returning to record their fifteenth studio album, and their first with all members of both The Jackson 5 and The Jacksons incarnations present, anticipation was primed.

Michael’s solo success aside, the preceding group efforts, 1978’s Destiny and 1980s Triumph, had shown artists coming into their own writing, producing and arranging both albums to mass commercial and critical success. And when you add in Michael’s landmark Off The Wall (1979) and Thriller albums into the mix, it would seem the hits would keep on coming and the band would grow from strength to strength.

At least, that’s what fans had hoped.

All in all, Victory isn’t a bad album, it’s just not the album we hoped for. With each brother branching out in their own musical stylings and having something valid to offer, maybe this approach was inevitable. When you listen to each song in isolation, you’d have to agree most are pretty catchy and worthy of an airing. But when packaged together, they just don’t gel as well as they should.

Whilst the album was a solid seller and chart performer, it failed to really light up the world, perhaps overshadowed by two other albums released around the same time: Prince’s Purple Rain and Bruce Springsteen’s Born In The U.S.A., both seminal albums from each. Add to this the curious fact that the Jacksons’ tour of the same name failed to include any songs from the album (that’s right, no “State of Shock” and no “Torture”) and it’s easy to see why it’s often overlooked in both Michael’s and The Jackson 5/Jacksons canon.

Other notable curiosities surrounding this project include:

1. The original album artwork featured a white dove on Randy’s shoulder. It flew away on subsequent pressings.

2. The lead single, the Jackson-Jagger (or is that Mike & Mick) “State of Shock” featured no music video, and follow-up single “Torture” did get a video albeit without a living, breathing Michael. Instead a wax figure of Michael appears at the end, armed raised. No wax figure of Jermaine was used, and many didn’t notice his absence.

3. Of the remaining songs from the album, “Body” gets a single release and video??? Go figure. (Neither Michael nor Jermaine appear in this one either. Even the wax figure skipped this one too.)

As an interesting aside, I eagerly bought this album on the day of release and instinctively kicked it off with “State of Shock” playing as the opener and progressing through that side to “Body” then flipping it over for “Torture” through to “Be Not Always,” which felt like a bold and fitting album closer. I played the album that way for months. It wasn’t until much later when I bought the CD version, that I was shocked to discover I had been playing the album in the wrong order, playing the second side before the first. Listening to the album as it was intended, I still felt (and do to this day) that my mistaken sequencing is the stronger.

around the time that this album was released,Jermaine had a solo album and it contains an excellent duet with Michael "Tell Me I'm Not Dreamin".I think this song is better than most of the tracks on 'Victory'!

One More Chance...so ever since I first heard Phil Collins' One More Night, I couldn't help but notice how similar it sounded to One More Chance. In fact, I was totally sure. So a year or so ago, I hear Randy Jackson on Questlove Supreme and he touched on this. He actually explained how he ran into Phil Collins in a drug store and they both acknowledged it was the same or very similar.

SoulAlive said:

SoulAlive said:

around the time that this album was released,Jermaine had a solo album and it contains an excellent duet with Michael "Tell Me I'm Not Dreamin".I think this song is better than most of the tracks on 'Victory'!

I think his album was far superior IMO too. I always loved that Jermaine album, I Believe I got a reissue of that a few years ago with a bunch of 12" mixes the songs inclduing the one he did with Pia Zadora which is good also, but he had a lot of success with this album, "Do What you do" and "Dynamite" were big singles too. I think everyone assumed of course the Jacksons album would be amazing because they tend to think because its Michael riding off of THriller how can it not be top notch. Similar this is what they think of Huge artists in bands who go solo and just kind find that "album" Freddie Mercury, Brian May, Mick Jagger, OK Sting is different animal in this case.But for him his music is not POLICE music and not even close, Freddie was doing very queen like stuff on his first cd and Brian was doing the same as was Mick

RODSERLING said:

I heard One More Night in One More Chance too. I also heard Wanna Be Startin' Something in Body. Be Not Always was the MJ's Hallelujah. They should have released it as the 3rd single IMO. I understand they tried by releasing Body to Emancipate from MJ and see if that could work. Wait would have worked better ( it was released after), but the problem was that they could have never had MJ in a video. They should have replaced the terrible We Can Change The World with another MJ tracks ( This is It, to bookend the album?) To better balance the number of MJ songs. The Hurt was strangely bad for an MJ/ Porcaro composition. It doesn't sound like them at all. Torture was a big success in France and sold there 250k copies. I understand the album flopped because of no songs performed in tour, no music video with MJ made, over saturation of MJ singles, no charisma from the others members of the band... Still, it flopped really, really badly, more than it should have. It s like they sold more tickets from the tour in the US than albums. The album also underperformed in big markets such as in France (Destiny sold more) and in the UK ( Triumph sold more).

Hmm thing is however in terms of sales, it sold more than any "Jacksons" album, to that point they had not been certified over 1million in the USA for any record, this one was certified 2 million sold by October of 1984 and 7 million worldwide. I get it was a let down because everything that Michael is on has to sell millions right away, I would also say this album was a let down not because of its sales but because I can feel this was very thrown together, very last minute, also tacking on Mick Jagger for an instant mega duet for a single is the first sign this album was going to be very weak. I mean the fact that Michael seems to want no part of it, its like a tour was forced and I do feel that is true to this day, also as it went on Jermaine didnt even want to be there because he had his own record out.

SoulAlive said:

around the time that this album was released,Jermaine had a solo album and it contains an excellent duet with Michael "Tell Me I'm Not Dreamin".I think this song is better than most of the tracks on 'Victory'!

That album, sometimes referred to as Dynamite, is really Jermaine's attempt at having his own Thriller. I noticed it even back then and I enjoyed it.

Wanna Be Startin' Somethin' - Dynamite (that uptempo workout from the start)

Baby Be Mine - Sweetest Sweetest (just a cool little, and underrated bop)

The Girl is Mine - Tell Me I'm Not Dreamin' (the duet in the 3rd spot)

Thriller - Escape From the Planet of the Ant Men (including a maniacal laugh; the spooky song finishing out the first side))

Second side is a bit more loose, but there are a couple of comparisions to be made:

Beat It -

Billie Jean -

Human Nature - Do What You Do (that smooth, mid-tempo lush tune)

PYT - Some Things are Private (the funk workout)

The Lady In My Life - Oh Mother (ending track about an important woman)

I still enjoy Jermaine Jackson and listen to it probably once a year or so.

If he were smart, he'd have mixed storylines in the Pia Zadora duet with "Escape From the Planet of the Ant Men."

I remember KJ-103 in Oklahoma City playing the whole album, albeit in a different order, and I recorded it. "Be Not Always" didn't always fall on 16-year-old ears the way it does forty years later. But I love the drama and emotion of it.

"Body" and "Wait" were standout tracks for me. I was obsessed with "State of Shock,"* and waited to watch "Torture" whenever it aired.

Randy's "The Hurt" is ear-piercing in the worst way. I still have no fucking idea what he's saying. Tito's song is just kinda there, and unremarkable.

"One More Chance" is a good one, but some of the production should've been tamed or changed out.

I remember stories about various paintings being done (including the dove thing), and stories about who was going to have a mustache or not. Michael Whelan really nailed it, though. It's beautiful.

*There was mild fodder about the ending of "State of Shock" being spun backwards. Jagger was said to have said things like "Hey Michael...... hey Michael..." and then allegedly the N-word. It's right in the ad-libs where Jagger is saying "Look at me.... look at me..." It's stupid, but it was in the midst of the backward masking era.

SolaceAHA said:

Thanks for the reminder!

Absolutely LOVE "State Of Shock"!

Never thought to find the 12" version with the fantastic breakdown

[Edited 7/12/24 4:59am]

nayroo2002 said:

Thanks for the reminder!

Absolutely LOVE "State Of Shock"!

Never thought to find the 12" version with the fantastic breakdown

YAAASS! That breakdown is everything!!! I totally forgot about that.

RODSERLING said:

SolaceAHA said:

Hmm thing is however in terms of sales, it sold more than any "Jacksons" album, to that point they had not been certified over 1million in the USA for any record, this one was certified 2 million sold by October of 1984 and 7 million worldwide. I get it was a let down because everything that Michael is on has to sell millions right away, I would also say this album was a let down not because of its sales but because I can feel this was very thrown together, very last minute, also tacking on Mick Jagger for an instant mega duet for a single is the first sign this album was going to be very weak. I mean the fact that Michael seems to want no part of it, its like a tour was forced and I do feel that is true to this day, also as it went on Jermaine didnt even want to be there because he had his own record out.

Well, I don't think the album sold 7 million worldwide, I would say more in the range of 4/5 million. 7 million is the sales for Invincible, and it outsold Victory in many big markets. I think 7 million was the easy target sales or the predicted sales at the end of the promotion. Unless it sold in fact more than we think in the US. There is that third platinum award : https://gottahaverockandr...9104.aspx/ But it was never recorded by the RIAA. So, maybe CBS manufactured it in advance, thinking that by Christmas 84' they would be at 3 million copies sold in the US, maybe they were very close to the 3 million but never reached it.

Well its off the Wiki Page for the album that it was 2. million usa and 7 million worldwide. I am never quite sure of overseas numbers though in that time era I do not doubt it, I mean Bon Jovi Keep the Faith and These days were their biggest selling albums worldwide who knew

RODSERLING said:

SolaceAHA said:

Hmm thing is however in terms of sales, it sold more than any "Jacksons" album, to that point they had not been certified over 1million in the USA for any record, this one was certified 2 million sold by October of 1984 and 7 million worldwide. I get it was a let down because everything that Michael is on has to sell millions right away, I would also say this album was a let down not because of its sales but because I can feel this was very thrown together, very last minute, also tacking on Mick Jagger for an instant mega duet for a single is the first sign this album was going to be very weak. I mean the fact that Michael seems to want no part of it, its like a tour was forced and I do feel that is true to this day, also as it went on Jermaine didnt even want to be there because he had his own record out.

Well, I don't think the album sold 7 million worldwide, I would say more in the range of 4/5 million. 7 million is the sales for Invincible, and it outsold Victory in many big markets. I think 7 million was the easy target sales or the predicted sales at the end of the promotion. Unless it sold in fact more than we think in the US. There is that third platinum award : https://gottahaverockandr...9104.aspx/ But it was never recorded by the RIAA. So, maybe CBS manufactured it in advance, thinking that by Christmas 84' they would be at 3 million copies sold in the US, maybe they were very close to the 3 million but never reached it.

Well its off the Wiki Page for the album that it was 2. million usa and 7 million worldwide. I am never quite sure of overseas numbers though in that time era I do not doubt it, I mean Bon Jovi Keep the Faith and These days were their biggest selling albums worldwide who knew

I was watching a video of the Victory Tour in Toronto that someone upscaled to 4K. It looks fantastic.

Jermaine's section was good. He was really trying to jump on the momentum of Thriller with his music.

I was looking at the tour personnel. I knew Jonathan "Sugarfoot" Moffet played on that tour (and I think the Bad Tour later). He played on Madonna's Blond Ambition Tour (among a gazillion other tours, of course). Another couple of Madonna folks were on keyboard - Jai Winding and one of her cowriters Pat Leonard. Guitartist David Williams worked with both of them, and played on tour.

I'm really surprised that MJ and Madonna just never did anything together musically. There was a lot of connections and synergy there that should've been harnessed.

Back to the video, it's really good. I hate that Jackie injured himself and wasn't in the majority of the tour, including Toronto. Also wonder why there was never an album of the tour put out. The Triumph Tour had an album (that I loved but haven't listened to in ages). With Victory being the last hurrah, an album seemed logical.

I still have my Jacksons "Victory" picture disk from back then. With the excitement and anticipation of the "Victory" album/tour and the "Purple Rain" album/movie, the summer of '84 was fun!

SPYZFAN1 said:

I still have my Jacksons Victory picture disk from back then. With the excitement and anticipation of the Victory album/tour and the Purple Rain album/movie, the summer of '84 was fun!

Totally agree! I forget if I ever had that picture disk. I can see it in my head, but I just can't remember whether I had it or not. I had the regular LP and/or cassette.

The CD was hard to find a few years ago but I did get one from eBay in perfect shape. I didn't expect quite the deja vu in my head that I got when I started listening to it. It was sophomore year in high school for me in 1984 (graduated '86). All sorts of things race thru my head when I listen to it.

RODSERLING said:

SolaceAHA said:

Well, I don't think the album sold 7 million worldwide, I would say more in the range of 4/5 million. 7 million is the sales for Invincible, and it outsold Victory in many big markets. I think 7 million was the easy target sales or the predicted sales at the end of the promotion. Unless it sold in fact more than we think in the US. There is that third platinum award : https://gottahaverockandr...9104.aspx/ But it was never recorded by the RIAA. So, maybe CBS manufactured it in advance, thinking that by Christmas 84' they would be at 3 million copies sold in the US, maybe they were very close to the 3 million but never reached it.

Well its off the Wiki Page for the album that it was 2. million usa and 7 million worldwide. I am never quite sure of overseas numbers though in that time era I do not doubt it, I mean Bon Jovi Keep the Faith and These days were their biggest selling albums worldwide who knew

[ These numbers are supported by no official sources. Wiki numbers are always inflated by fans.

There will always be a debate on numbers and certifications. Depending also on the artist, all of them have to pay for the actual "counting" to be done and certifying. Some especially if its an artist deceased or even just doesnt really care about it, they dont bother re-doing them. I forget the band it might be Aerosmith but I could be wrong had not submitted for certification for some time, and then suddenly a few early records went from a million to 3 million. Now with "streaming" and how that is weighed which I still feel should be its own seperate thing not counting in as an "actual" sell when you hit a certain amount to me seems insane since, you technically only have to listen to thirty seconds for it to count.

More MJ bs

SolaceAHA said:

RODSERLING said:

Thanks for the article Bboy! So what happened to Bad Company and Buffalo Bill? What was the original 9 tracks selection?

Michael held on to it for possibly including it on what became Bad, along with Dirty Diana and Liberian Girl (both written and demoed in 1983), Alright Now (given to Ralph Tresvant) and others. He with John Barnes and Bill Bottrell worked on a lot of songs during 1983-early 87

Jackie wrote Power and Playing with Fire but those were later given to Tremaine Hawkins and Greg Phillinganes

Marlon wrote Where Do I Stand for the album but held on to it for his 1987 album

No idea what Tito did with Bad Company

Why didn't Jermaine take part in the Torture video?

leecaldon said:

Why didn't Jermaine take part in the Torture video?

He was Michael Jr., in his head.

I think the lead vocal breakdown also shows who did and did not really want to be part of this project.